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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 20, 2024 0:43:51 GMT -8
Is this the best lineup the Beavs have ever had? 2018 will be tough to beat, no doubt. College World Series and four first round draft picks. 2024’s lineup has guys like Caraway, Turley, Hainline batting 5-9. This lineup will probably, statistically, put up better offensive numbers than 2018. No! The team is batting .353 % after 4 games against sub par competition in optimal hitting condition. The 2018 team hit 321% for the season and 310% in league play. While I can't swear by it, seems I remember the team batting average being over 400 after the first week in Surprise a couple of years. I specifically remember Larnach at 729% to start the season after 4 games in Surprise. Do I like this team...Hell yes. Sure not ready to proclaim them the greatest. This next week will give us a better indication. 2018 57/148 .385 40 R's 7 2Bs 1 3B 5 HRs 17 BBs 7/8 SBs 2 HBPs 1 SH 22 K's 3 E's2024 47/134 .351 42 R's 7 2Bs 2 3Bs 14 HRs 24 BBs 6/8 SBs 6 HBPs 3 SH's 36 K's 5 E's
Better BA in 2018 but better OBP and SLG this year. Better BABIP in 2018.
2024 Oregon State started better than 2018 Oregon State. Let's see if 2024 Oregon State can replicate or best 2018 Oregon State's 13-0 start, though. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 20, 2024 9:15:21 GMT -8
No! The team is batting .353 % after 4 games against sub par competition in optimal hitting condition. The 2018 team hit 321% for the season and 310% in league play. While I can't swear by it, seems I remember the team batting average being over 400 after the first week in Surprise a couple of years. I specifically remember Larnach at 729% to start the season after 4 games in Surprise. Do I like this team...Hell yes. Sure not ready to proclaim them the greatest. This next week will give us a better indication. The problem that I have with this comparison is that the Casey teams were different from Canham's teams. Casey really seemed to embrace the small ball. I don't think we had a lot of power on any of his teams. We had guys with great control in the box and guys who knew how to draw a walk. The batting discipline was beautiful. We had generally about 3 guys who could routinely hit a homer.
But this team is different. We're seeing home runs from everybody, up and down the lineup. It's a different philosophy and a different team as a result.
I loved the small ball that Casey preached. I loved the fielding, the smoothness of the machine. I loved the bunting and the walks. So yeah, this is different. It's also kind of addictive because the home runs are exciting. But it's different.
I still think Canham preaches plate discipline. A few guys swing at bad pitches, but relative to what Ive seen with other clubs, we are pretty good in that regard |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 20, 2024 9:24:35 GMT -8
I agree about the small ball.....always liked Casey's approach
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Post by hottubbeaver on Feb 20, 2024 11:45:44 GMT -8
No! The team is batting .353 % after 4 games against sub par competition in optimal hitting condition. The 2018 team hit 321% for the season and 310% in league play. While I can't swear by it, seems I remember the team batting average being over 400 after the first week in Surprise a couple of years. I specifically remember Larnach at 729% to start the season after 4 games in Surprise. Do I like this team...Hell yes. Sure not ready to proclaim them the greatest. This next week will give us a better indication. The problem that I have with this comparison is that the Casey teams were different from Canham's teams. Casey really seemed to embrace the small ball. I don't think we had a lot of power on any of his teams. We had guys with great control in the box and guys who knew how to draw a walk. The batting discipline was beautiful. We had generally about 3 guys who could routinely hit a homer.
But this team is different. We're seeing home runs from everybody, up and down the lineup. It's a different philosophy and a different team as a result.
I loved the small ball that Casey preached. I loved the fielding, the smoothness of the machine. I loved the bunting and the walks. So yeah, this is different. It's also kind of addictive because the home runs are exciting. But it's different.
Those aspects you point out in bold have come to be "our" brand of baseball. You could say it's the programs DNA of the Casey era or the key ingredients to our success. Anything the program does to give the appearance of straying from those ingredients, gives some of us a little discomfort (me included). All the preseason power offense hype and first game performance, which featured some costly errors, only added to some of our apprehensiveness over a perceived change in emphasis. But then came instant RELIEF over the next few games. The defense looked really good, including a couple of picked off runners. One GUNNED down by catcher retreating to 2B, another by a great pick from the mound to 1B. Then there was some excellent, fill up the zone, pitching on Sunday and for me maybe one of the biggest moments of the entire weekend in regards to extinguishing subtle fears of straying from our Beaver Baseball DNA, came when a freshman who was hotter than an Arizona roof in August, laid down a beautiful bunt for a base hit, one of a few well placed bunts on the weekend which went for hits. I have now come to realize this, our DNA is not small ball, or great defense and pitching, our DNA is a commitment and dedication to the mastery of the game. As long as that stays the same, I'll learn to accept and appreciate a potent HR knocking lineup along the way. And when a successful bunt is called for and executed it will only be all the more enjoyable when coming from a player who could have just as easily knocked it over the fence. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 20, 2024 12:14:09 GMT -8
For the want of a competent plate umpire, we had a good shot at Back-2 Back titles in 2017-'18. I though Florida was beatable in a 2017 final. I blame the whoregonian for us even being in that position in the first place. But yea, street was brutal. Also the Kwan "foul ball" in the first LSU game was totally blown, and absolutely had a massive impact on the game. Should've been reviewed |
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Post by rainmanrich on Feb 20, 2024 16:38:49 GMT -8
The problem that I have with this comparison is that the Casey teams were different from Canham's teams. Casey really seemed to embrace the small ball. I don't think we had a lot of power on any of his teams. We had guys with great control in the box and guys who knew how to draw a walk. The batting discipline was beautiful. We had generally about 3 guys who could routinely hit a homer.
But this team is different. We're seeing home runs from everybody, up and down the lineup. It's a different philosophy and a different team as a result.
I loved the small ball that Casey preached. I loved the fielding, the smoothness of the machine. I loved the bunting and the walks. So yeah, this is different. It's also kind of addictive because the home runs are exciting. But it's different.
Those aspects you point out in bold have come to be "our" brand of baseball. You could say it's the programs DNA of the Casey era or the key ingredients to our success. Anything the program does to give the appearance of straying from those ingredients, gives some of us a little discomfort (me included). All the preseason power offense hype and first game performance, which featured some costly errors, only added to some of our apprehensiveness over a perceived change in emphasis. But then came instant RELIEF over the next few games. The defense looked really good, including a couple of picked off runners. One GUNNED down by catcher retreating to 2B, another by a great pick from the mound to 1B. Then there was some excellent, fill up the zone, pitching on Sunday and for me maybe one of the biggest moments of the entire weekend in regards to extinguishing subtle fears of straying from our Beaver Baseball DNA, came when a freshman who was hotter than an Arizona roof in August, laid down a beautiful bunt for a base hit, one of a few well placed bunts on the weekend which went for hits. I have now come to realize this, our DNA is not small ball, or great defense and pitching, our DNA is a commitment and dedication to the mastery of the game. As long as that stays the same, I'll learn to accept and appreciate a potent HR knocking lineup along the way. And when a successful bunt is called for and executed it will only be all the more enjoyable when coming from a player who could have just as easily knocked it over the fence. Thoughtful analysis there Hottub. Mine differs although not far from yours. Dedication to the mastery of: 1. Pitching 2. Defense and 3. Just enough hitting to put together a couple of crooked number innings. The first two should choke out the opponent (figuratively out of air no chance to get off the ground). The last is to score enough in one or two innings to get to or remain ahead on the board. I scoff at the idea of an "SEC type lineup". I say "so what"? Most of the time SEC teams haven't faired any better against some of our pitching and defense than lower tiered mid majors. Who needs it? It seems to be a trade off in most cases that to get more hitting teams have to sacrifice defense to do so. I think that is what the Beavers are doing. However, I think the world of baseball and analytics is pushing it in that direction and most likely its a better way to win. Please dont misunderstand me. There WERE some nice plays and I still think that DNA is still there. |
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Feb 20, 2024 17:17:02 GMT -8
Those aspects you point out in bold have come to be "our" brand of baseball. You could say it's the programs DNA of the Casey era or the key ingredients to our success. Anything the program does to give the appearance of straying from those ingredients, gives some of us a little discomfort (me included). All the preseason power offense hype and first game performance, which featured some costly errors, only added to some of our apprehensiveness over a perceived change in emphasis. But then came instant RELIEF over the next few games. The defense looked really good, including a couple of picked off runners. One GUNNED down by catcher retreating to 2B, another by a great pick from the mound to 1B. Then there was some excellent, fill up the zone, pitching on Sunday and for me maybe one of the biggest moments of the entire weekend in regards to extinguishing subtle fears of straying from our Beaver Baseball DNA, came when a freshman who was hotter than an Arizona roof in August, laid down a beautiful bunt for a base hit, one of a few well placed bunts on the weekend which went for hits. I have now come to realize this, our DNA is not small ball, or great defense and pitching, our DNA is a commitment and dedication to the mastery of the game. As long as that stays the same, I'll learn to accept and appreciate a potent HR knocking lineup along the way. And when a successful bunt is called for and executed it will only be all the more enjoyable when coming from a player who could have just as easily knocked it over the fence. Thoughtful analysis there Hottub. Mine differs although not far from yours. Dedication to the mastery of: 1. Pitching 2. Defense and 3. Just enough hitting to put together a couple of crooked number innings. The first two should choke out the opponent (figuratively out of air no chance to get off the ground). The last is to score enough in one or two innings to get to or remain ahead on the board. I scoff at the idea of an "SEC type lineup". I say "so what"? Most of the time SEC teams haven't faired any better against some of our pitching and defense than lower tiered mid majors. Who needs it? It seems to be a trade off in most cases that to get more hitting teams have to sacrifice defense to do so. I think that is what the Beavers are doing. However, I think the world of baseball and analytics is pushing it in that direction and most likely its a better way to win. Please dont misunderstand me. There WERE some nice plays and I still think that DNA is still there. Im willing to bet our defense is top 16 at the end of the year. We have bumps in the road early season but Muches teams have been excellent just like Casey's. 2023 0.7 ER/game (#4), 2022 0.7 ER/game (#7), 2021 0.6 ER/game (#4). Defense is still our brand under Mitch. It just feels very sloppy because we are used to excellence. This is our first year in awhile without Dernedde but so far Hainline has looked very good. Caraway has 2 errors but to my count he's also made 5 plus plays only an excellent fielder would manage. It's going to be alright and we have some serious power to cover the learning curve. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 20, 2024 18:27:01 GMT -8
Is this the best lineup the Beavs have ever had? 2018 will be tough to beat, no doubt. College World Series and four first round draft picks. 2024’s lineup has guys like Caraway, Turley, Hainline batting 5-9. This lineup will probably, statistically, put up better offensive numbers than 2018. Easy there Hoss. Lots of early season (and this is REALLY early) has gone by the wayside upon entering conference play. My $.02? Enjoy, be optimistic, let it play out. |
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Post by richard44 on Feb 20, 2024 20:01:42 GMT -8
Is this the best lineup the Beavs have ever had? 2018 will be tough to beat, no doubt. College World Series and four first round draft picks. 2024’s lineup has guys like Caraway, Turley, Hainline batting 5-9. This lineup will probably, statistically, put up better offensive numbers than 2018. Easy there Hoss. Lots of early season (and this is REALLY early) has gone by the wayside upon entering conference play. My $.02? Enjoy, be optimistic, let it play out. I agree, I just thought it would create some good debate. It will be interesting as this year progresses to see how this offense continues to perform. In my honest opinion, I really do think this team will shatter some of the offensive records from 2018. With that being said, what ultimately made the 2018 team so special was that they actually finished off the season with a College World Series title. Until this 2024 squad does that, they won’t surpass the 2018 team in my mind. 2018’s offense was so incredibly clutch. It seemed that every time you needed that baserunner or that big hit, somebody came through. In the end, I’m willing to bet most Beaver Baseball fans care little about the offensive records if it doesn’t amount to, at the very least, an Omaha run. |
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Post by cake on Feb 20, 2024 20:27:43 GMT -8
This is a much better offensive team than 2018. Where would Jack Anderson be on this team? Kyle Nobach? Zak Taylor?
Deep bench.
They got a lot of run in 2018. Troy Claunch too.
This is easily the best offense we've ever had and it's not too early to call it. We're 13-14-15 guys deep, vs basically 6 or 7 in 2018, and this team is only going to improve.
But that's just, like, my opinion.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 20, 2024 21:07:43 GMT -8
This is a much better offensive team than 2018. Where would Jack Anderson be on this team? Kyle Nobach? Zak Taylor? Deep bench. They got a lot of run in 2018. Troy Claunch too. This is easily the best offense we've ever had and it's not too early to call it. We're 13-14-15 guys deep, vs basically 6 or 7 in 2018, and this team is only going to improve. But that's just, like, my opinion. Zak Taylor would start at first. Jack Anderson or Kyle Nobach would probably be playing in front of Macias. I have a hard time believing that Oregon State is better at pitcher, catcher, first, short, center, or right. I have always liked a defense-first strategy with pinch hitters coming in over the last three innings, if the team gets into a bind. |
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Post by richard44 on Feb 20, 2024 21:39:00 GMT -8
This is a much better offensive team than 2018. Where would Jack Anderson be on this team? Kyle Nobach? Zak Taylor? Deep bench. They got a lot of run in 2018. Troy Claunch too. This is easily the best offense we've ever had and it's not too early to call it. We're 13-14-15 guys deep, vs basically 6 or 7 in 2018, and this team is only going to improve. But that's just, like, my opinion. Zak Taylor would start at first. Jack Anderson or Kyle Nobach would probably be playing in front of Macias. I have a hard time believing that Oregon State is better at pitcher, catcher, first, short, center, or right. I have always liked a defense-first strategy with pinch hitters coming in over the last three innings, if the team gets into a bind. Alright. I’m going to do a comparison just because. Again, I acknowledge that our sample size from the current 2024 squad is only four games. In saying that, a lot of these guys are returning guys and you kind of know what you are getting from them. 2018 catcher - Rutchman 2024 catcher - Smith/Weber Hands down Rutch is better. 2018 first base - Taylor 2024 first base - Guerra I’d take Guerra without a doubt, even though Taylor has an edge defensively. Guerra’s offensive numbers over the last year, and his natural potential are just too strong. 2018 2nd base - Madrigal 20242nd base - Bazzana Damn, this one is super tough. Madrigal was a top 4 pick. I’d still go Bazzana though, he just adds more power with basically just as good of bat to ball skills. 2018 SS - Grenier 2024 SS - Hainline I’d go Grenier. 320 hitter with 8 homeruns, and clutch at that. Unbelievable glove and arm. 2018 3B - Gretler 2024 3B - Caraway Really tough one here. Proven vet that hit around 320 with about 6-8 homeruns, and really good glove in Gretler. Caraway is oozing with potential, has a cannon for an arm, and can clearly hit at this level. This might make some people upset, but I go with Caraway over Gretler. 2018 LF - Jack Anderson 2024 LF - Turley Turley hands down. Anderson did a lot for our program, but he’s no Turley. 2018 CF - Kwan 2024 CF - McDowell This might upset some people, but I say this one is a wash. Kwan was incredible. Really good glove, good baserunner, hit about 350 with minimal power. McDowell has a good glove, good athlete and baserunner as well, but more power than Kwan. McDowell hit close to .350 last year, so again, I think this one could go either way with no clear front runner. 2018 RF - Larnach 2024 RF - Kasper I think this one will end up closer than I will give it credit for, but I’m going Larnach all the way. Hit around .340 in 2018 with 19 homers. It’s going to take one hell of a season for Kasper to top that. 2018 DH - Nobach 2024 DH - Macias/Peterson I think this will also end up being a wash. Nobach hit close to .300 in 2018 and had some huge clutch hits during the season and postseason. I think Macias/Peterson could do the same, and Macias is better athletically with a better glove. This thread is about offense, so the only thing I will say about pitching is 2018 had better top end talent with Heimlech, Abel, Chamberlain, and Eisert. I do think this year’s bullpen is deeper, but we will see what that means when we need them to perform in big moments. |
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Post by easyheat on Feb 20, 2024 22:34:30 GMT -8
Canham has mentioned he is prepared to play long-ball or little-ball depending on the circumstances. The baseball philosophy of good pitching and tight defense is deeply ingrained in OSU baseball. Canham certainly is not averse to playing offense inside the diamond, he's been there and done that.
I believe the fundamental components of little ball are bat control, bunting skills, base stealing and baserunning, hit and run, drawing walks and contact hitting. That hasn't gone away, it's just been lost in the flurry of XBH and home runs the Beavs are producing. We scored 42 runs in Surprise, there was no reason to play "small" or scratch for runs against our competition.
How are we equipped for speed - so essential to SBs and taking the extra base? Bazzana, McDowell, Turley, Macias, Reeder, Talt, Hainline, Caraway are all fast and Kasper, Guerra and others won't exactly clog up the bases.
Can we bunt? They can all bunt with Bazzana, McDowell, Kasper and Macias exceptional at it.
Base stealers> We might not to run our catchers but everybody in the lineup can steal a base with Bazzana maybe being the best base stealer in college baseball.
The point is, I think we are more than equipped and capable to play small if we needed to. So far, we haven't needed to because we are belting the ball out of the yard by swinging away.
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Post by irimi on Feb 21, 2024 7:53:40 GMT -8
Zak Taylor would start at first. Jack Anderson or Kyle Nobach would probably be playing in front of Macias. I have a hard time believing that Oregon State is better at pitcher, catcher, first, short, center, or right. I have always liked a defense-first strategy with pinch hitters coming in over the last three innings, if the team gets into a bind. Alright. I’m going to do a comparison just because. Again, I acknowledge that our sample size from the current 2024 squad is only four games. In saying that, a lot of these guys are returning guys and you kind of know what you are getting from them. 2018 catcher - Rutchman 2024 catcher - Smith/Weber Hands down Rutch is better. 2018 first base - Taylor 2024 first base - Guerra I’d take Guerra without a doubt, even though Taylor has an edge defensively. Guerra’s offensive numbers over the last year, and his natural potential are just too strong. 2018 2nd base - Madrigal 20242nd base - Bazzana Damn, this one is super tough. Madrigal was a top 4 pick. I’d still go Bazzana though, he just adds more power with basically just as good of bat to ball skills. 2018 SS - Grenier 2024 SS - Hainline I’d go Grenier. 320 hitter with 8 homeruns, and clutch at that. Unbelievable glove and arm. 2018 3B - Gretler 2024 3B - Caraway Really tough one here. Proven vet that hit around 320 with about 6-8 homeruns, and really good glove in Gretler. Caraway is oozing with potential, has a cannon for an arm, and can clearly hit at this level. This might make some people upset, but I go with Caraway over Gretler. 2018 LF - Jack Anderson 2024 LF - Turley Turley hands down. Anderson did a lot for our program, but he’s no Turley. 2018 CF - Kwan 2024 CF - McDowell This might upset some people, but I say this one is a wash. Kwan was incredible. Really good glove, good baserunner, hit about 350 with minimal power. McDowell has a good glove, good athlete and baserunner as well, but more power than Kwan. McDowell hit close to .350 last year, so again, I think this one could go either way with no clear front runner. 2018 RF - Larnach 2024 RF - Kasper I think this one will end up closer than I will give it credit for, but I’m going Larnach all the way. Hit around .340 in 2018 with 19 homers. It’s going to take one hell of a season for Kasper to top that. 2018 DH - Nobach 2024 DH - Macias/Peterson I think this will also end up being a wash. Nobach hit close to .300 in 2018 and had some huge clutch hits during the season and postseason. I think Macias/Peterson could do the same, and Macias is better athletically with a better glove. This thread is about offense, so the only thing I will say about pitching is 2018 had better top end talent with Heimlech, Abel, Chamberlain, and Eisert. I do think this year’s bullpen is deeper, but we will see what that means when we need them to perform in big moments. You've made my point (about the differences between the two teams and two coaching philosophies). You chose power over defensive ability at nearly every position. Then you rationalize your decisions by saying "this thread is about offense...." Makes sense. But comparing the team now with the 2017/18 team isn't fair. This team was built for power. The home run figures greatly into our game plan. Back in '17 and '18, home runs were nice to see, but not the way we scored our runs. We had a different identity. By the way, I take offense that you wouldn't take Kwan over Micah. I understand the challenge you have with Bazzana and Madrigal, especially when you remember that Madrigal rarely struck out. But I think you undersold Kwan's impact on the team. Sure, he wasn't one to hit HRs, but he was one that would find a way to get on base. And his spirit was enormous. A great team player. Kwan, every day, in my book. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 21, 2024 8:21:25 GMT -8
Count me in the party of Canham is a Casey guy, and will adapt to what he has with any given team. Defense and pitching will always be a focus.....some teams just have different strengths, and weaknesses that may be obvious.
We have questions on the staff and defense.....some guys are shuffling around. This team obviously has the hitting......the rest will hopefully come around.
If we are mashing, might as well let guys swing away. If we go against a Pac 12 Friday ace that is holding us down, might bunt guys over.
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