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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 14, 2024 8:38:12 GMT -8
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 14, 2024 9:47:43 GMT -8
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Post by richard44 on Feb 14, 2024 18:15:08 GMT -8
Yup, this one hurts. Not the end of the world by any means, but losing a top reliever hurts anyone. This is where I’m thankful we have a lot of depth, some freshmen who sound like they can be impact arms right away, and we have Mundt back. It’s tough for any team to go through a season without losing a pitcher or two, just the nature of baseball anymore.
What’s weird to me is you have guys like Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and others who throw tons and tons of innings their whole life, and never have significant arm injuries or TJ. Nowadays you have more pitch limits, load management, and injury prevention than ever before, yet TJ has become commonplace on pitching staffs everywhere.
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Post by beavaristotle on Feb 14, 2024 18:32:12 GMT -8
Yup, this one hurts. Not the end of the world by any means, but losing a top reliever hurts anyone. This is where I’m thankful we have a lot of depth, some freshmen who sound like they can be impact arms right away, and we have Mundt back. It’s tough for any team to go through a season without losing a pitcher or two, just the nature of baseball anymore. What’s weird to me is you have guys like Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and others who throw tons and tons of innings their whole life, and never have significant arm injuries or TJ. Nowadays you have more pitch limits, load management, and injury prevention than ever before, yet TJ has become commonplace on pitching staffs everywhere. the three guys you mentioned had very different body types and very different mechanics. I think they just won the lottery in that sense. |
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Post by beavaristotle on Feb 14, 2024 18:32:57 GMT -8
Yup, this one hurts. Not the end of the world by any means, but losing a top reliever hurts anyone. This is where I’m thankful we have a lot of depth, some freshmen who sound like they can be impact arms right away, and we have Mundt back. It’s tough for any team to go through a season without losing a pitcher or two, just the nature of baseball anymore. What’s weird to me is you have guys like Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and others who throw tons and tons of innings their whole life, and never have significant arm injuries or TJ. Nowadays you have more pitch limits, load management, and injury prevention than ever before, yet TJ has become commonplace on pitching staffs everywhere. the three guys you mentioned had very different body types and very different mechanics. I think they just won the lottery in that sense by not getting hurt . |
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Post by Bodhisattva on Feb 14, 2024 22:20:59 GMT -8
Yup, this one hurts. Not the end of the world by any means, but losing a top reliever hurts anyone. This is where I’m thankful we have a lot of depth, some freshmen who sound like they can be impact arms right away, and we have Mundt back. It’s tough for any team to go through a season without losing a pitcher or two, just the nature of baseball anymore. What’s weird to me is you have guys like Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and others who throw tons and tons of innings their whole life, and never have significant arm injuries or TJ. Nowadays you have more pitch limits, load management, and injury prevention than ever before, yet TJ has become commonplace on pitching staffs everywhere. I’m not confident that Mundt will have good stuff after that long of a recovery. Hopefully Palmer comes back sooner than later. |
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Post by richard44 on Feb 15, 2024 6:43:47 GMT -8
Yup, this one hurts. Not the end of the world by any means, but losing a top reliever hurts anyone. This is where I’m thankful we have a lot of depth, some freshmen who sound like they can be impact arms right away, and we have Mundt back. It’s tough for any team to go through a season without losing a pitcher or two, just the nature of baseball anymore. What’s weird to me is you have guys like Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and others who throw tons and tons of innings their whole life, and never have significant arm injuries or TJ. Nowadays you have more pitch limits, load management, and injury prevention than ever before, yet TJ has become commonplace on pitching staffs everywhere. I’m not confident that Mundt will have good stuff after that long of a recovery. Hopefully Palmer comes back sooner than later. I agree with you on that. I’m hoping he can at least be a guy who can eat up an inning or two here or there, because he does have veteran experience in some big games. But Palmer is the guy with, what appears to be, more dominant stuff coming out of the pen. |
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Post by BeaverG20 on Feb 15, 2024 8:51:25 GMT -8
Yup, this one hurts. Not the end of the world by any means, but losing a top reliever hurts anyone. This is where I’m thankful we have a lot of depth, some freshmen who sound like they can be impact arms right away, and we have Mundt back. It’s tough for any team to go through a season without losing a pitcher or two, just the nature of baseball anymore. What’s weird to me is you have guys like Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and others who throw tons and tons of innings their whole life, and never have significant arm injuries or TJ. Nowadays you have more pitch limits, load management, and injury prevention than ever before, yet TJ has become commonplace on pitching staffs everywhere. Modern day training maximizes every ounce out of a kids arm. Most arms can't handle being trained up above what they naturally can get to. Elbow eventually gives up, but now it can be fixed. What made all the old time flame throwers special was their arms could take it. My elbow hurt when I was throwing 82-85 in high school. With good training I'm sure I could have gotten to 90-92, but my elbow would have come apart. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 15, 2024 10:00:06 GMT -8
Yup, this one hurts. Not the end of the world by any means, but losing a top reliever hurts anyone. This is where I’m thankful we have a lot of depth, some freshmen who sound like they can be impact arms right away, and we have Mundt back. It’s tough for any team to go through a season without losing a pitcher or two, just the nature of baseball anymore. What’s weird to me is you have guys like Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and others who throw tons and tons of innings their whole life, and never have significant arm injuries or TJ. Nowadays you have more pitch limits, load management, and injury prevention than ever before, yet TJ has become commonplace on pitching staffs everywhere. Modern day training maximizes every ounce out of a kids arm. Most arms can't handle being trained up above what they naturally can get to. Elbow eventually gives up, but now it can be fixed. What made all the old time flame throwers special was their arms could take it. My elbow hurt when I was throwing 82-85 in high school. With good training I'm sure I could have gotten to 90-92, but my elbow would have come apart. The older guys also weren't throwing the amount of innings growing up that kids are now days. A large number of innings when your arm is still developing cause way more harm. Even with pitch counts, kids are playing baseball year around with travelling teams or just training. The older players didn't do that and their arms had time to rest. |
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Post by kersting13 on Feb 15, 2024 13:09:06 GMT -8
Modern day training maximizes every ounce out of a kids arm. Most arms can't handle being trained up above what they naturally can get to. Elbow eventually gives up, but now it can be fixed. What made all the old time flame throwers special was their arms could take it. My elbow hurt when I was throwing 82-85 in high school. With good training I'm sure I could have gotten to 90-92, but my elbow would have come apart. The older guys also weren't throwing the amount of innings growing up that kids are now days. A large number of innings when your arm is still developing cause way more harm. Even with pitch counts, kids are playing baseball year around with travelling teams or just training. The older players didn't do that and their arms had time to rest. But they ended up throwing 300 innings a season as a 25-30-year-old. I don't think anyone has figured out the secret sauce as to what correlates to UCL blow-outs, or else we would have stopped it by now. When I played little league in the 80s, we'd have kids that threw CGs as 11 or 12 YO, and I'm sure their pitch counts exceeded today's limits. That said, we didn't have club teams playing 50-150 games a year, either. You just abused your top pitchers arms for 15-30 games every spring.  |
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 15, 2024 13:23:38 GMT -8
The older guys also weren't throwing the amount of innings growing up that kids are now days. A large number of innings when your arm is still developing cause way more harm. Even with pitch counts, kids are playing baseball year around with travelling teams or just training. The older players didn't do that and their arms had time to rest. I don't think anyone has figured out the secret sauce as to what correlates to UCL blow-outs, or else we would have stopped it by now. When I played little league in the 80s, we'd have kids that threw CGs as 11 or 12 YO, and I'm sure their pitch counts exceeded today's limits. That said, we didn't have club teams playing 50-150 games a year, either. You just abused your top pitchers arms for 15-30 games every spring. That's what I was getting at. They didn't pitch as much until they were in that 25-30 year old category. Throwing to much when you are still growing and your arm is still developing puts a lot of strain on it. And yes, I was part of that arm abuse in the 80's. Started 2 games per week in HS. Which is my rotator cuff is shot. But, it was just the HS season and a few games of legion ball. Not year around games like now. |
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Post by hottubbeaver on Feb 15, 2024 15:05:51 GMT -8
But they ended up throwing 300 innings a season as a 25-30-year-old. I don't think anyone has figured out the secret sauce as to what correlates to UCL blow-outs, or else we would have stopped it by now. When I played little league in the 80s, we'd have kids that threw CGs as 11 or 12 YO, and I'm sure their pitch counts exceeded today's limits. That said, we didn't have club teams playing 50-150 games a year, either. You just abused your top pitchers arms for 15-30 games every spring. That's what I was getting at. They didn't pitch as much until they were in that 25-30 year old category. Throwing to much when you are still growing and your arm is still developing puts a lot of strain on it. And yes, I was part of that arm abuse in the 80's. Started 2 games per week in HS. Which is my rotator cuff is shot. But, it was just the HS season and a few games of legion ball. Not year around games like now. To your point, muscle develops faster than it's support system, bone, tendons, and ligaments. Teenagers who train with weights or by other means to build muscle, power, and strength only increase the stress load placed on the underlying support system which is not developing at the same rate. |
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Post by jimbob on Feb 15, 2024 22:42:35 GMT -8
Yup, this one hurts. Not the end of the world by any means, but losing a top reliever hurts anyone. This is where I’m thankful we have a lot of depth, some freshmen who sound like they can be impact arms right away, and we have Mundt back. It’s tough for any team to go through a season without losing a pitcher or two, just the nature of baseball anymore. What’s weird to me is you have guys like Bob Gibson, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan and others who throw tons and tons of innings their whole life, and never have significant arm injuries or TJ. Nowadays you have more pitch limits, load management, and injury prevention than ever before, yet TJ has become commonplace on pitching staffs everywhere. Modern day training maximizes every ounce out of a kids arm. Most arms can't handle being trained up above what they naturally can get to. Elbow eventually gives up, but now it can be fixed. What made all the old time flame throwers special was their arms could take it. My elbow hurt when I was throwing 82-85 in high school. With good training I'm sure I could have gotten to 90-92, but my elbow would have come apart. I guess I was part of that old timer group whose arms could take it. I threw tons of innings from March through August every year from 7th grade through college. Usually 2 full games per week plus sometimes a relief appearance also in the same week. Any week with only 1 game scheduled or any off weeks I threw full simulated games at home working on my craft---(my brother was a catcher). I never ever had any elbow or shoulder issues and I threw hard for my time---1960's through mid 70's---My brother estimated mid to upper 80's and he caught some flame-throwers at the D1 level in college for comparison, but there were no radar guns back then. The only minor issue I had was sometimes my arm would get sore early season if I succumbed to the temptation to throw too hard before I was fully ramped up those first couple of weeks each year. A couple of things I did do and I suspect also the old time pro's also did this was I did not throw at all during the 5 month off season from mid Sept. to mid Feb. giving my arm plenty of time to recover. Also during the throwing season I did not do any upper body weight training---I only weight trained during the off season when I wasn't throwing. I think those 2 things more than anything prevented me from having any elbow or shoulder issues. Nowadays I see pitchers throwing a lot during the off season working on their arsenal, and I also see them weight training in season between starts---I'm thinking this never allows their arms to recover properly and contributes to all of the elbow, forearm, and shoulder issues we see these days---Just my 2 cents worth based on my experience. |
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