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Post by rgeorge on Feb 8, 2024 8:18:37 GMT -8
I was more referring to the shade that Bray threw at milk maid. And I can understand Bray flying to East landfill.....never turn down an opp until you've thoroughly vetted it. Thing is, I'm pretty sure Bray could've done better than milk maids DC......I mean he DID do better, but even if he didn't land the OSU HC job, I bet there would've been plenty others pursuing, at least for DC. I just didn't get the feeling Bray has a lot of respect for milk maid, especially after how he left. Specifically what shade...what is the context? Smith gave him the opportunity to be where he is now, no? I dont think Bray us HC of OSU right now if Smith didnt elevate him to DC a few years ago. I agree Bray would have probably landed a better DC job...which MSU is. Bird in the hand. I already mentioned USC. Maybe even the San Jose State HC job after Brennan moved on. He claims he couldn't get on that plane...after Barnes asked him not to go. Kinda easy to say after you are hired as HC. I guess I'm not believing all the hype and fluff about some sort of dedication to OSU and how this is his dream job. We heard the same thing about Smith. Coaching is a business, these guys have massive egos and aspirations too. Riley moved on. Erickson moved on. Smith moved on. Real good chance Bray moves on at some point if he has similar success. And...like Smith, if and when that happens I'll keep rooting for Bray to succeed. Likewise...if Bray is delivering 2, 3, 4 win seasons 3 to 4 years down the line. We'll see how dedicated Oregon State, and more specifically the fan base, is to Bray Well said. My issue was with "how" Smith left, not that he did. But, he was never well spoken and it showed when he left. All the criticism is funny from those who have zero idea how'd they'd act in his "shoes". Coaching is a job, a business. CEOs etc move up to larger companies all the time. New challenges, more $, benefits them and their family. That's their focus. And, for me what's the point of wasting any energy on a guy no longer here? I don't care if he succeeds or not, he's no longer affiliated so I don't care. And, he's not Riley in so many ways. Hence, I'd also never want him to return as the HC.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 8, 2024 8:20:59 GMT -8
I was more referring to the shade that Bray threw at milk maid. And I can understand Bray flying to East landfill.....never turn down an opp until you've thoroughly vetted it. Thing is, I'm pretty sure Bray could've done better than milk maids DC......I mean he DID do better, but even if he didn't land the OSU HC job, I bet there would've been plenty others pursuing, at least for DC. I just didn't get the feeling Bray has a lot of respect for milk maid, especially after how he left. Specifically what shade...what is the context? Smith gave him the opportunity to be where he is now, no? I dont think Bray us HC of OSU right now if Smith didnt elevate him to DC a few years ago. I agree Bray would have probably landed a better DC job...which MSU is. Bird in the hand. I already mentioned USC. Maybe even the San Jose State HC job after Brennan moved on. He claims he couldn't get on that plane...after Barnes asked him not to go. Kinda easy to say after you are hired as HC. I guess I'm not believing all the hype and fluff about some sort of dedication to OSU and how this is his dream job. We heard the same thing about Smith. Coaching is a business, these guys have massive egos and aspirations too. Riley moved on. Erickson moved on. Smith moved on. Real good chance Bray moves on at some point if he has similar success. And...like Smith, if and when that happens I'll keep rooting for Bray to succeed. Likewise...if Bray is delivering 2, 3, 4 win seasons 3 to 4 years down the line. We'll see how dedicated Oregon State, and more specifically the fan base, is to Bray When did you know that he (Smith) was going to be leaving? Trent Bray: pic.twitter.com/YENk1RCiXe — Matthew (@mattfricke) November 29, 2023 “I found out real late in the process, and it didn’t sit quite right with me, and that’s why I wasn’t in a hurry to get on the plane when he asked me to go,” Bray explained. “Then when I was presented this opportunity I stayed even longer and wanted to hear this out and see where this could go. Best decision I’ve made.” There was another post he did on X I think??.....saying he wouldn't leave when things were tough, or something like that. A clear shot at milk maid. I like simplicity. Milk maid has a chip on his shoulder to climb the bodies to the top. Bray is a heart on his sleeve, true Beaver. He will likely move on to bigger, and better things. I understand that. But I believe he will do it in a way that won't leave us feeling like we just got dumped by our supposed serious GF. I believe Bray when he says he loves OSU. I think milk maid appreciates the opp OSU gave him to achieve HIS goals.....there's a difference.
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Post by NativeBeav on Feb 8, 2024 9:24:56 GMT -8
You have to put yourself in that moment. Saturday AM Bray found out he may no longer have a job at OSU, but did at MSU with a sure to be raise. Then Barnes asks him to stick around, or more likely, Barnes was informing him he is a top candidate to take over HC job. I believe Smith liked Bray as DC, hes not only good, but provides a coaching element Smith doesnt. Like OA said...Fire and Ice. I also don't think Smith would have held it against Bray whatsoever to pursue the OSU job. Thats the nature of the business. Smith didn't hire a DC until after Bray was hired as OSU head coach and off the market. I'm going to hold it against Smith for leaving his alma mater when we needed him the most and it's unlikely that I'll ever forgive him. We might not know the whole back story but he crapped on OSU and that's unforgivable. No amount of whitewashing by the press, or hwnsnbn apologists, will change the texts I was receiving on the Wednesday before the Friday CW. In addition, we may never know the truth, but I have no doubt that JS knew he was going to move a month or two earlier, and his demeanor and decision making reflects that.
I know we have all experienced or witnessed short timer syndrome in jobs we have held, but when you are making millions, and are highly paid to do a job - you need to do it to the best of your ability until the door hits you on the way out. I do not believe he did that. If others do, we will just have to agree to disagree. What a way to torpedo what could have been a lasting 6 year legacy at OSU.
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Post by beavadelic on Feb 8, 2024 10:31:27 GMT -8
You have to put yourself in that moment. Saturday AM Bray found out he may no longer have a job at OSU, but did at MSU with a sure to be raise. Then Barnes asks him to stick around, or more likely, Barnes was informing him he is a top candidate to take over HC job. I believe Smith liked Bray as DC, hes not only good, but provides a coaching element Smith doesnt. Like OA said...Fire and Ice. I also don't think Smith would have held it against Bray whatsoever to pursue the OSU job. Thats the nature of the business. Smith didn't hire a DC until after Bray was hired as OSU head coach and off the market. I’ve had conversations with people close to Bray and the situation. There is little doubt that Smith coveted Bray more than any other assistant or prospective one, even Coach M. Bray is careful and respectful publicly, but I have zero doubt that some respect was lost for his former “boss” in the how of that. I am so glad to turn the page on JS at this point, and excited as I look forward to having a HC who those closest to him say eats, sleeps and thinks about football constantly. He just loves the game and he loves OSU, and he has a sharp football mind to go with the passion. Practices will be more rigorous and spirited, and we should see some great energy from his teams. I’m also looking forward to Gundy’s offense. Sounds like a hybrid that will keep defenses guessing, with change of tempo, QBs who will stress the defense with their arm and legs, and more explosiveness in general. When it’s said and done, Martinez may have his best season yet even with a more dynamic and imaginative passing attack. I am thrilled with the prospect of a bunch of 6’2”-6’4 guys on the outside who can run and stretch the field.
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Post by wetrodentia on Feb 8, 2024 13:25:27 GMT -8
I'm going to hold it against Smith for leaving his alma mater when we needed him the most and it's unlikely that I'll ever forgive him. We might not know the whole back story but he crapped on OSU and that's unforgivable. No amount of whitewashing by the press, or hwnsnbn apologists, will change the texts I was receiving on the Wednesday before the Friday CW. In addition, we may never know the truth, but I have no doubt that JS knew he was going to move a month or two earlier, and his demeanor and decision making reflects that.
I know we have all experienced or witnessed short timer syndrome in jobs we have held, but when you are making millions, and are highly paid to do a job - you need to do it to the best of your ability until the door hits you on the way out. I do not believe he did that. If others do, we will just have to agree to disagree. What a way to torpedo what could have been a lasting 6 year legacy at OSU.
I'm with you. I'm not an insider, but from the outside niner burned his legacy and he didn't care. He had to know how bad it looked, either that or you have to believe he was so oblivious that he didn't foresee the ridiculously bad public-relations optics. I don't know but maybe him and his agent are that stupid. It would be sleazy and unforgivable to do what he did to any program, but to do it to your alma mater? The one you starred at QB for? That gave you your first shot at a P5 HC position? Where you're universally admired? A legend that every Beaver fan looked up to?
It's pretty unbelievable he was willing to do that for any amount of money or opportunity. But maybe he (and his greedy agent) are truly not that smart: Negotiating with MSU while having an historic season with OSU? Dude could have focused on beating az, uw, and nike u and if he'd won two of those three (would we have if he wasn't distracted/checked-out?) would have opened, I can imagine, an amazing amount of doors to better jobs AFTER THE SEASON. What was so great about msu that he needed to panic and take that job during our season? Why was he that insecure and willing to screw his alma mater for a job he could have had likely in December? Someone with integrity would have said "I'm grateful for the interest but I'm focusing on this team, this season, this program right now 100%. I'm intrigued, and if the job is available after our regular season I'm willing to talk. And you (msu) shouldn't want it any other way because if I do become your coach you can assume I'll extend you the same loyalty and courtesy." IMHO, there was absolutely no advantage for him to engage in securing that job during our season. I'd really like to hear the reasoning from these two geniuses: niner and his agent.
From my perspective his character is damaged and he's untrustworthy, selfish, and disloyal, and I hope he never wins another football game. I mean it's cringe to be that self-centered regardless of the generational wealth being offered. Go cash your checks and roll around in the money niner. Hope it was worth it because I doubt you'll ever be welcome back in Corvallis, and it could have been avoided but you didn't think your legacy at OSU was worth it. I just with we knew if we could have won the last 3/4 games if he wasn't such a Judas. And if he'd left AFTER the regular season after honest negotiations with another program it would have been bittersweet but I think we all could have tipped our cap and wished him well, thanking him in the process. Rant over. Go Beavs.
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Post by NativeBeav on Feb 8, 2024 13:49:47 GMT -8
No amount of whitewashing by the press, or hwnsnbn apologists, will change the texts I was receiving on the Wednesday before the Friday CW. In addition, we may never know the truth, but I have no doubt that JS knew he was going to move a month or two earlier, and his demeanor and decision making reflects that.
I know we have all experienced or witnessed short timer syndrome in jobs we have held, but when you are making millions, and are highly paid to do a job - you need to do it to the best of your ability until the door hits you on the way out. I do not believe he did that. If others do, we will just have to agree to disagree. What a way to torpedo what could have been a lasting 6 year legacy at OSU.
I'm with you. I'm not an insider, but from the outside niner burned his legacy and he didn't care. He had to know how bad it looked, either that or you have to believe he was so oblivious that he didn't foresee the ridiculously bad public-relations optics. I don't know but maybe him and his agent are that stupid. It would be sleazy and unforgivable to do what he did to any program, but to do it to your alma mater? The one you starred at QB for? That gave you your first shot at a P5 HC position? Where you're universally admired? A legend that every Beaver fan looked up to?
It's pretty unbelievable he was willing to do that for any amount of money or opportunity. But maybe he (and his greedy agent) are truly not that smart: Negotiating with MSU while having an historic season with OSU? Dude could have focused on beating az, uw, and nike u and if he'd won two of those three (would we have if he wasn't distracted/checked-out?) would have opened, I can imagine, an amazing amount of doors to better jobs AFTER THE SEASON. What was so great about msu that he needed to panic and take that job during our season? Why was he that insecure and willing to screw his alma mater for a job he could have had likely in December? Someone with integrity would have said "I'm grateful for the interest but I'm focusing on this team, this season, this program right now 100%. I'm intrigued, and if the job is available after our regular season I'm willing to talk. And you (msu) shouldn't want it any other way because if I do become your coach you can assume I'll extend you the same loyalty and courtesy." IMHO, there was absolutely no advantage for him to engage in securing that job during our season. I'd really like to hear the reasoning from these two geniuses: niner and his agent.
From my perspective his character is damaged and he's untrustworthy, selfish, and disloyal, and I hope he never wins another football game. I mean it's cringe to be that self-centered regardless of the generational wealth being offered. Go cash your checks and roll around in the money niner. Hope it was worth it because I doubt you'll ever be welcome back in Corvallis, and it could have been avoided but you didn't think your legacy at OSU was worth it. I just with we knew if we could have won the last 3/4 games if he wasn't such a Judas. And if he'd left AFTER the regular season after honest negotiations with another program it would have been bittersweet but I think we all could have tipped our cap and wished him well, thanking him in the process. Rant over. Go Beavs.
Excellent rant - and spot on. One other thought - wasn't it niner when asked early last year, right after the conference blow up, "we really don't think about next year, we are focused on this season?" Wasn't that his message to the players? I guess he didn't take his own advice. Or he never believed it, he just spewed it for his players to hear. And then, as soon as he could bail and leave great players, he did - loyal players like Martinez who then said WTF? Players who then thought "thanks a lot niner, we could have bailed mentally, physically as well, but we stayed, because we believed what you said". SMH
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 8, 2024 14:49:35 GMT -8
I'm with you. I'm not an insider, but from the outside niner burned his legacy and he didn't care. He had to know how bad it looked, either that or you have to believe he was so oblivious that he didn't foresee the ridiculously bad public-relations optics. I don't know but maybe him and his agent are that stupid. It would be sleazy and unforgivable to do what he did to any program, but to do it to your alma mater? The one you starred at QB for? That gave you your first shot at a P5 HC position? Where you're universally admired? A legend that every Beaver fan looked up to?
It's pretty unbelievable he was willing to do that for any amount of money or opportunity. But maybe he (and his greedy agent) are truly not that smart: Negotiating with MSU while having an historic season with OSU? Dude could have focused on beating az, uw, and nike u and if he'd won two of those three (would we have if he wasn't distracted/checked-out?) would have opened, I can imagine, an amazing amount of doors to better jobs AFTER THE SEASON. What was so great about msu that he needed to panic and take that job during our season? Why was he that insecure and willing to screw his alma mater for a job he could have had likely in December? Someone with integrity would have said "I'm grateful for the interest but I'm focusing on this team, this season, this program right now 100%. I'm intrigued, and if the job is available after our regular season I'm willing to talk. And you (msu) shouldn't want it any other way because if I do become your coach you can assume I'll extend you the same loyalty and courtesy." IMHO, there was absolutely no advantage for him to engage in securing that job during our season. I'd really like to hear the reasoning from these two geniuses: niner and his agent.
From my perspective his character is damaged and he's untrustworthy, selfish, and disloyal, and I hope he never wins another football game. I mean it's cringe to be that self-centered regardless of the generational wealth being offered. Go cash your checks and roll around in the money niner. Hope it was worth it because I doubt you'll ever be welcome back in Corvallis, and it could have been avoided but you didn't think your legacy at OSU was worth it. I just with we knew if we could have won the last 3/4 games if he wasn't such a Judas. And if he'd left AFTER the regular season after honest negotiations with another program it would have been bittersweet but I think we all could have tipped our cap and wished him well, thanking him in the process. Rant over. Go Beavs.
Excellent rant - and spot on. One other thought - wasn't it niner when asked early last year, right after the conference blow up, "we really don't think about next year, we are focused on this season?" Wasn't that his message to the players? I guess he didn't take his own advice. Or he never believed it, he just spewed it for his players to hear. And then, as soon as he could bail and leave great players, he did - loyal players like Martinez who then said WTF? Players who then thought "thanks a lot niner, we could have bailed mentally, physically as well, but we stayed, because we believed what you said". SMH He was focused on parlaying his success at OSU into a better gig, period, regardless of any other variable.......all BS coach speak. It's been interesting to read the MSU take on all this. They think Brays words on skim milks departure were a cheap shot. They are using the "better job, better resources, it's a no brainer" narrative. They obviously do not care about our situation, and I wouldn't expect them to, but they are also buying into skim milks BS coach speak. Same shpeel.....he's not who they think he is.
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Feb 8, 2024 15:50:12 GMT -8
Excellent rant - and spot on. One other thought - wasn't it niner when asked early last year, right after the conference blow up, "we really don't think about next year, we are focused on this season?" Wasn't that his message to the players? I guess he didn't take his own advice. Or he never believed it, he just spewed it for his players to hear. And then, as soon as he could bail and leave great players, he did - loyal players like Martinez who then said WTF? Players who then thought "thanks a lot niner, we could have bailed mentally, physically as well, but we stayed, because we believed what you said". SMH He was focused on parlaying his success at OSU into a better gig, period, regardless of any other variable.......all BS coach speak. It's been interesting to read the MSU take on all this. They think Brays words on skim milks departure were a cheap shot. They are using the "better job, better resources, it's a no brainer" narrative. They obviously do not care about our situation, and I wouldn't expect them to, but they are also buying into skim milks BS coach speak. Same shpeel.....he's not who they think he is. A MSU fan with an ounce of intelligence should be thinking, "if he did that to his alma-mater, what will he do at our school with zero ties?" They have a good coach, but after finding out what kind of man he is, I'm happy he is no longer coaching in Corvallis.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 8, 2024 16:21:02 GMT -8
He was focused on parlaying his success at OSU into a better gig, period, regardless of any other variable.......all BS coach speak. It's been interesting to read the MSU take on all this. They think Brays words on skim milks departure were a cheap shot. They are using the "better job, better resources, it's a no brainer" narrative. They obviously do not care about our situation, and I wouldn't expect them to, but they are also buying into skim milks BS coach speak. Same shpeel.....he's not who they think he is. A MSU fan with an ounce of intelligence should be thinking, "if he did that to his alma-mater, what will he do at our school with zero ties?" They have a good coach, but after finding out what kind of man he is, I'm happy he is no longer coaching in Corvallis. I think their fan base has delusions of grandeur about where they stand in the college football world. They see themselves as a destination. I doubt anyone else does, including skim milk.
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escott58
Sophomore
Posts: 1,191
Grad Year: 1983
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Post by escott58 on Feb 8, 2024 16:41:13 GMT -8
Not withstanding hwnsnbn leaving, coach Bray seems to have been the brains behind the wins these last few seasons. I hope it's not my spiteful side thinking that, but it seems the defense kept us in most games.
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 8, 2024 17:18:41 GMT -8
Not withstanding hwnsnbn leaving, coach Bray seems to have been the brains behind the wins these last few seasons. I hope it's not my spiteful side thinking that, but it seems the defense kept us in most games. Bray was a huge part of it for sure. When he took over for Tibesar the improvement on defense was immediate, and massive.
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Post by avidbeaver on Feb 8, 2024 17:54:06 GMT -8
Not withstanding hwnsnbn leaving, coach Bray seems to have been the brains behind the wins these last few seasons. I hope it's not my spiteful side thinking that, but it seems the defense kept us in most games. Bray was a huge part of it for sure. When he took over for Tibesar the improvement on defense was immediate, and massive. If it wasn't for Bray, the former coach wouldn't have gotten the job at Michigan State.
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 8, 2024 21:42:14 GMT -8
He was focused on parlaying his success at OSU into a better gig, period, regardless of any other variable.......all BS coach speak. It's been interesting to read the MSU take on all this. They think Brays words on skim milks departure were a cheap shot. They are using the "better job, better resources, it's a no brainer" narrative. They obviously do not care about our situation, and I wouldn't expect them to, but they are also buying into skim milks BS coach speak. Same shpeel.....he's not who they think he is. A MSU fan with an ounce of intelligence should be thinking, "if he did that to his alma-mater, what will he do at our school with zero ties?" They have a good coach, but after finding out what kind of man he is, I'm happy he is no longer coaching in Corvallis. Smith is gone from MSU in absolutely no more than 3 years.
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 8, 2024 22:13:29 GMT -8
Not withstanding hwnsnbn leaving, coach Bray seems to have been the brains behind the wins these last few seasons. I hope it's not my spiteful side thinking that, but it seems the defense kept us in most games. Smith was 14-26 in 40 games Tim Tibesar Smith was 20-10 in 30 games with Bray. 2021 Bray took over with four games left and averaged 21.5 points per game. Tibesar averaged 27.6 ppg and that includes blanking Idaho 42-0... against the Pac-12 Tibesar gave up 32 points per game. 2022: we had the 16th ranked scoring defense and a 10 win season (20.0 ppg) 2023: despite losing a lot of NFL talent, we had the 44th ranked defense (22.8 ppg) In the same time frame: 2021: 44th ranked scoring offense (31.2 ppg) 2022: 38th ranked scoring offense (32.2 ppg) 2023: 35th ranked scoring offense (31.8 ppg) To be sure, averaging 30+ ppg is good. Smith and Lindgren gave us a better than average offense in nearly every year since he took over. But the offense he built was stunningly consistent over time. Yes, he came in and salvaged the wreckage of Anderpants and gave us a better than average offense, but at the same time, one that couldn't overcome the defensive faults (like say, USC of late...) The real change was that OSU did not start winning until Bray turned a defense that was never better than 93rd under Smith first pick as DC into a respectable unit, then a national leader. Smith couldn't win until Bray shaved almost 10 points a game off of Tibesar's defense. and to be clear, Bray did it WITH MOST OF THE SAME GUYS. He didn't take a season or two to flip the roster. He took the exact same dudes Tibesar would sacrifice 33 points per game with, and cut a full touchdown and change a game off. Smith got plucked by MSU by virtue of begrudgingly giving Bray the DC job after sticking with Tibesar for a season and a half too long.
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Post by bvrbred on Feb 9, 2024 9:14:17 GMT -8
It has seemed to me that Lindgren's offenses have become less effective over time--against talented defenses. This past year, against the best teams we faced (excluding Notre Dame because that was a patchwork of our actual offense), we scored 21 against Utah, 7 against Oregon, 24 against AZ, and 20 against UW. The only game close to our 32 point average was AZ. Our average was helped by two non conference blow outs and a 62 point game against Stanford.
In 2022 the best conference teams we faced were Utah, USC, UW, and Oregon. We couldn't break 20 against Utah or USC, scored 21 against UW and only beat our 32 point average against Oregon, scoring 38.
I realize that its easier to score points against lesser teams but it seems to me, 2022 Oregon aside, the only thing keeping us in games against better teams that last two years has been our defense. Yet in 2021 our 7-6 team managed to score 42 against eventual conference champ Utah and laid 45 against a USC team that was ranked #14 at the time.
Its like these other programs, over time, have managed to figure out Lindgren's offense. And the better programs have the horses to load the box and manage our running game. Although Lindgren has not been able to compensate by fielding a particularly productive passing game, he's still been able to run over the lesser programs. Hence our 32 ppg average.
I think this situation speaks to Bray's comments about needing a more explosive, more varied, less predictable offense. Our offense has been much more of a limitation on how far our program could go than our defense. Like many others, I"m really looking forward to see what Bray and Gunderson can do.
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