zzufrevaeb
Sophomore
Not beaverfuzz
hi
Posts: 1,502 
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Jan 24, 2024 16:53:21 GMT -8
No one was claiming that OSU could hire a coach with the same type of credentials as Miller had prior to coming here. His name was brought up (by a “Tinkle-ite” I might add) in the context of not eliminating a coach merely because of geography. But then I think you know that. As for “better be careful what you ask for,” we are very familiar with that phrase and its “power” because we’re living in that hell right now created by those that asked for Tinkle to be the coach through the 2026-27. Why they gave him a 3-year extension on top of the 1-year he automatically got for making NCAA tourney is beyond me. We’d be coming to the end of all this if they had just stuck with a raise and the automatic 1-year. Heck, I would have been fine with them giving him an extra 1 year at that time, but 3? How could they have looked at his body of work at that time and concluded that there was no way the E8 run was an aberration and we certainly want Wayne for another 6 seasons? We all wish the powers that be had heeded your advice and been careful what they asked for. I think all but the most ardent anti-Tinkle posters understand there are no guarantees that the new hire whenever it happens will be more successful than Tinkle. But not because of a hire 35 years ago. 30 years ago or 25 years ago. Just because there are no guarantees. But we’ve seen how well Tinkle is handling the new landscape of college basketball. Is OSU basketball the best funded or have a strong NIL program? No. But I and apparently others don’t believe that’s the main issue or at least the only issue. So why would donors invest more in a guy who has to be close to orchestrating the worst 3 year run for the program — leading to severe apathy for the program. We re-upped on Tinkle for three reasons. The first was that, at the time, we were afraid that Tinkle would be hired away, which seems laughable now, but it was a concern. The second is that we were financially-secure and believe that we were going to be financially secure for years to come. The UCLA and USC bombshells landed the next year. The third is that we wanted to make sure that everyone knew that Oregon State supported and rewarded their coaches' success. Regardless of what happens to Tinkle, no one can say that Oregon State does not support their head coaches, when they have successful seasons. While I agree with your third paragraph in total, you have to admit that Oregon State's almost complete lack of success the past 25-35 plays into the individuals who would be interested in the position and thereby has to affect a level-headed analysis in what the Beavers' best course forward is. You have a proven commodity now, who has shown that he can win here, even if it is twice a decade. Or you can spin the same wheel that bit you five (six if you include Tinkle) times previously. Who was going to hire Wayne away? Stanford? Just say S Scott Barnes completely blew that contract like he did in Pittsburgh, basketball just isn't in his wheelhouse. No one's using the blow up of the Pac-12 conference to say Wayne makes too much (he made too much before it all fell apart) so that theory is also out the window. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 24, 2024 17:34:23 GMT -8
Stanford did talk to Wayne after his first or second year here.
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nksuwu
Freshman
Longtime Beaver fan...especially WBB
Posts: 79
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Post by nksuwu on Jan 24, 2024 18:07:50 GMT -8
So let's recap so far, good thread... Colby Blaine - College of Idaho Danny Sprinkle- Utah State Ben McCollum- NW Missouri State Todd Simon- Bowling Green Luke Jackson- former Duck and NWC coach Bryce Drew- Grand Canyon Tony Stubblefield- former Depaul Jeff Linder- Wyoming Bob Richey- Furman |
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nksuwu
Freshman
Longtime Beaver fan...especially WBB
Posts: 79
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Post by nksuwu on Jan 24, 2024 18:08:30 GMT -8
So let's recap so far, good thread... Colby Blaine - College of Idaho Danny Sprinkle- Utah State Ben McCollum- NW Missouri State Todd Simon- Bowling Green Luke Jackson- former Duck and NWC coach Bryce Drew- Grand Canyon Tony Stubblefield- former Depaul Jeff Linder- Wyoming Bob Richey- Furman |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 24, 2024 18:10:04 GMT -8
Cat got your tongue? Well………we’re waiting. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Jan 24, 2024 18:30:42 GMT -8
Wilky —
If your reason 1 is correct then Barnes might want to hire someone who understands the coaching market. I believe Tinkle was to make $2.5M the first year after the extension. That right there priced him out of a lot of jobs. Just from the financial aspect, there were only 6 openings that year for which Tinkle might have left. But a closer look at them and I really think there was 1, maybe 2. You also have to remember (and Barnes should have known) that despite coming off an E8 run, we’re still talking about a coach who was only 4 games over .500 overall and 24 games under .500 in conference at OSU. So the openings:
Texas — would not have considered WT. Hired the true hot prospect Beard
Texas Tech — Replaced Beard with Adams, his assistant. Again, don’t think WT would have been considered, but possible I guess.
Arizona — No way they hire a coach from same conference with an under .500 conference record.
Indiana — If you know anything about IU and the situation there at the time, you know they wouldn’t have seriously considered WT.
Marquette — Hired Shaka Smart. Money fits — though WT likely wouldn’t have gotten much of a raise — and while the sheen had worn off him some, still think Smart would have been above WT on want list.
Oklahoma — this might have been only real worry. Coincidentally, they hired Moser, who WT’s team beat in S16. Based on their current salaries, WT might have gotten enough of a raise to make it worthwhile. Yet despite the result of the S16 game, Moser was the hotter candidate based upon getting to F4 two year’s earlier.
As to reason 3, I think a raise and an extra year plus the one he got for making tourney shows they support their coaches. Based on the salary ranking list I’m looking at (think it’s for 2022-23 season), Tinkle is 39th highest paid coach. Assume his rank then was about same. I think that shows support too.
I really do think you and the others who like to bring up the 35 years span are greatly over emphasizing the impact that would have on candidates. First, HCs all have egos. You don’t think they believe they can be the one to right the ship? But much more important is the job/money. Tinkle is the #39 on salary list I’m looking at with $2.9M. Even if they give a new coach only $2.3M per, that would make him the 55th highest paid coach. There just aren’t many jobs out there that pay like the OSU job. Even if because of the uncertainty, they decide to pay only $1.5M per year, that would make for a big raise for a lot of talented coaches.
I could be wrong, but I think it was you who wrote that the OSU job would be a step back for Jeff Linder of Wyoming. I don’t know many people who think more than doubling their salary from $700k per to $1.5M is a step back. I’m not advocating for Linder, but if he came here he’d likely get a 5 year. $8M contract at least. Yeah, but it’s a bad job. Every coach going in thinks they’ll be successful. And if he is at OSU, he’ll have plenty of even bigger offers. If he isn’t, he’ll have made $8M, takes a year off and gets another job like Wyoming. Why wouldn’t he just wait for a better job than OSU? Again, there aren’t that many jobs at that level of money. No guarantee he’ll ever get same type of offer.
Finally, as to WT being a proven commodity, yes he has gotten the Beavers to the tourney twice. But the last 2.5 years raise serious questions about his ability to adjust to the new college basketball landscape. NIL and the portal have changed things, and WT wasn’t exactly killing it on the recruiting trail prior to those impacting things. As I’ve said in other posts, no guarantee that a new coach will be more successful or even as successful as WT has been here. But he’s on his way to being the coach overseeing what has to be at least close to the worst 3-year span in program history. It’s time to find new blood, and there will be plenty of worthy candidates interested. Let’s hope Barnes gets it right when time comes.
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Post by TheGlove on Jan 24, 2024 18:45:41 GMT -8
So let's recap so far, good thread... Colby Blaine - College of Idaho Danny Sprinkle- Utah State Ben McCollum- NW Missouri State Todd Simon- Bowling Green Luke Jackson- former Duck and NWC coach Bryce Drew- Grand Canyon Tony Stubblefield- former Depaul Jeff Linder- Wyoming Bob Richey- Furman  |
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Post by speakthetruth on Jan 24, 2024 19:03:06 GMT -8
OK I will throw out another name. Steve Alford. I know for whatever reasons many people don't like him, but you can't argue that wherever he goes he wins. Plus his salary is only 1.2 and through the 28 season maxes at 1.5. This in itself shows how incredibly off tinkles salary is.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 24, 2024 20:53:50 GMT -8
OK I will throw out another name. Steve Alford. I know for whatever reasons many people don't like him, but you can't argue that wherever he goes he wins. Plus his salary is only 1.2 and through the 28 season maxes at 1.5. This in itself shows how incredibly off tinkles salary is. Alford is a good name to throw out, with the rest of the garbage. |
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Post by lavrentyyb on Jan 24, 2024 23:40:12 GMT -8
Post your suggestions for who the next Beaver coach should/could be. We’re looking for a person, in the mold of CJS from football, that can turn this trash heap into winning program. Young, hungry, cheap. Anyone suggesting the following will get a 30 day timeout: 1. Lester Conner- it’s not gonna happen and it’s lazy. 2. Any other former Beaver without D1/D2/D3/NAIA/Pro Head Coaching experience. 3. Has to have had HEAD coaching experience. We’re not after the next Jay John or Mike Hopkins. Ready, set, GO! Did he resign? |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 25, 2024 0:10:16 GMT -8
Post your suggestions for who the next Beaver coach should/could be. We’re looking for a person, in the mold of CJS from football, that can turn this trash heap into winning program. Young, hungry, cheap. Anyone suggesting the following will get a 30 day timeout: 1. Lester Conner- it’s not gonna happen and it’s lazy. 2. Any other former Beaver without D1/D2/D3/NAIA/Pro Head Coaching experience. 3. Has to have had HEAD coaching experience. We’re not after the next Jay John or Mike Hopkins. Ready, set, GO! Did he resign? Nope. No resignation or firing. Just sensationalism, stimulated a lot of conversation though. |
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Post by lavrentyyb on Jan 25, 2024 0:27:35 GMT -8
Nope. No resignation or firing. Just sensationalism, stimulated a lot of conversation though. Yeah. But I'm not sure how healthy it is. |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Jan 25, 2024 1:50:33 GMT -8
I don't know if the Ralph Miller hire was entirely some amazing AD feat.
To wit, from page 10 of the book "Miller's Time":
"It was no pipe dream that brought RM to Corvallis, Oregon in the Fall of 1970. He and wife Jean had grown tired of the brutal midwestern winters and the west coast seemed like the next logical step. Hawaii was that much closer, and more importantly, Oregon State was looking for a coach"
As a person who has turned down attractive jobs due to a lukewarm response from my spouse to their geographical location, I can surmise that we should give Ralph's wife Jean significant credit in landing RM as coach.
(Note this point is expressed even more strongly in Ralph's book "Spanning the Game" but I couldn't find my copy to quote it).
Go Beavers!
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Post by beaverinohio on Jan 25, 2024 4:56:22 GMT -8
I don't know if the Ralph Miller hire was entirely some amazing AD feat. To wit, from page 10 of the book "Miller's Time": "It was no pipe dream that brought RM to Corvallis, Oregon in the Fall of 1970. He and wife Jean had grown tired of the brutal midwestern winters and the west coast seemed like the next logical step. Hawaii was that much closer, and more importantly, Oregon State was looking for a coach" As a person who has turned down attractive jobs due to a lukewarm response from my spouse to their geographical location, I can surmise that we should give Ralph's wife Jean significant credit in landing RM as coach. (Note this point is expressed even more strongly in Ralph's book "Spanning the Game" but I couldn't find my copy to quote it). Go Beavers! Yep, never underestimate the power of the wife/family. Jim Leonhard, former DC and interim HC at WI, is currently a defensive analyst at Illinois. He’s passed on several high profile jobs (I think more taken his hat out of the ring rather than turned down actual offer) — USC DC being one — because he and his wife have a young family and the jobs were in places she didn’t want to move to/raise a family in. I’ve seen his name mentioned again in connection with open GB DC job. He turned down the job last time it was open out of loyalty to stay at WI. Be interesting to see where he eventually ends up |
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Post by beaverinohio on Jan 25, 2024 6:07:48 GMT -8
OK I will throw out another name. Steve Alford. I know for whatever reasons many people don't like him, but you can't argue that wherever he goes he wins. Plus his salary is only 1.2 and through the 28 season maxes at 1.5. This in itself shows how incredibly off tinkles salary is. As an Illinois fan, it is easy to hate a guy who played at Indiana and coached at Iowa. But throw in his ardent support of a player at Iowa who committed sexual assault (kept him on team only to have to let him go later because of another arrest), and I’d pass. By all reports he’s an odd, narcissistic dude as well. Certainly can recruit though (or could at UCLA) and has won pretty much wherever he’s been. I think Iowa is his only stop where he hasn’t been .500+ in conference — and he wasn’t that far off. Hasn’t exactly been killing it at Nevada though. And, of course, he can never get his teams over the hump in NCAA tourney as UCLA and Pac 12 fans well know. Though I don’t think Beaver fans would quibble too much about a Sweet 16 or two. He has the career and career trajectory that would make him a great get for the Beavers if it wasn’t for all that nasty baggage. I’m all for second chances in sports, but he’s on about his fourth and just doesn’t seem like the kind of a guy who has learned from them. Maybe crazy to say it, but think Beavers will have better overall options. Though from strictly a basketball perspective, not sure there would be a safer option. As to Wayne’s contract being out of whack, it certainly is but I don’t really have that big a problem with it other than it makes firing difficult. It is the byproduct of being at a school for 10 years and having gotten I believe two extensions. The length of the second extension was the problem, not the raise that was part of it. Of course now with no Pac 12, the salary is really out of whack in the WCC. Very interested in seeing at what level the next head coach is hired in at. |
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