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Post by rgeorge on Feb 8, 2024 14:36:11 GMT -8
I don't think anyone is questioning his coaching ability. It's more his style. There's a reason that you don't see many task manager coaches still around. Players are "softer" now and would transfer at the drop of a hat if they were coached that way. You also can't compare the recruiting today to when Ralph coached. It was much more regionalized back then and that were very few prospects on the national radar. You didn't have to compete with schools all over the country for good players. That being said, I'm not defending Tinkle. I supported him for a long time, but after he screwed the pooch on recruiting the year after the E8 season, it's time for a fresh start. I was even willing to give them a small pass on the recruiting mistakes after the E8 appearance. I felt like maybe there was a possibility that they missed something they might have caught if not for Covid protocols affecting how they could recruit. Then it felt like after the mistake nothing was really done to remedy it during the season and they just hoped it would all work out. There were obvious issues on that team, even to someone with no inside knowledge. That’s where I really felt they screwed up and lost a lot of my support. Added... and repeatedly made public comments using Covid as part of the reason for such failure when EVERY team faced to same issues. But, without looking, pretty sure no E8... even S16, R32, T68 fell to 3 wins, also having the 4th longest losing steak in '22 at 18 games?? Someone feel free to look... |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 8, 2024 14:36:45 GMT -8
Ralph, Ralph, Ralph! When are people going to realize that was a different era? I think you are spot on about OSU treating basketball like they treated football for years. So you don't think that Miller would be successful in the modern day? Sure, the game has changed, but in essence, a coach that can coach well will always succeed. I think it is disingenuous to state that we found success before because it was a different era. You can't pin the lack of winning on the era. Regardless the era, basketball, like many sports, comes down to fundamentals, and that's one area that Tinkle's teams have always seemed to lack. This is why I think Ralph would find success as a coach even in this era. He knew what it takes to compete. I think Ralph was a great coach, but he'd have to adapt, and probably could. He would have to deal with budget constraints (compared to other schools) that simply did not exist in the 70s and 80s. It would be interesting to see recruiting budgets from those days, I suspect they would be more tightly bunched than they are now. These are the numbers from 4-5 years ago - athleticdirectoru.com/articles/an-analysis-of-college-basketball-recruiting-costs/He would have to deal with one and dones, which didn't exist in those days. Back then, the bulk of the kids were 4 year students. I suspect more of them were actually interested in school and student life. As someone mentioned earlier, he was gruff, how many of those kids wouldn't transfer in today's environment. Kids are coddled these days in comparison to then. The transfers of those days usually were generally transfers up or down between divivions or universities and JCs, not so much to schools at your same level. He had an entire season of wins vacated because players sold their shoes. Now under the table payments are basically over the table, legal, and potentially huge and the NCAA doesn't bat an eye. It's a completely different era with a completely different set of issues to deal with. You can't say he would do the same as before. Heck, he had a 12 win season in '85 and there were frequent letters to the sports editors that he "the dinosaur" should be jettisoned, for a couple years. There's a lot more to deal with these days. |
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Post by beaver94 on Feb 8, 2024 15:59:41 GMT -8
I was even willing to give them a small pass on the recruiting mistakes after the E8 appearance. I felt like maybe there was a possibility that they missed something they might have caught if not for Covid protocols affecting how they could recruit. Then it felt like after the mistake nothing was really done to remedy it during the season and they just hoped it would all work out. There were obvious issues on that team, even to someone with no inside knowledge. That’s where I really felt they screwed up and lost a lot of my support. Added... and repeatedly made public comments using Covid as part of the reason for such failure when EVERY team faced to same issues. But, without looking, pretty sure no E8... even S16, R32, T68 fell to 3 wins, also having the 4th longest losing steak in '22 at 18 games?? Someone feel free to look... You’re probably correct, but I also don’t know that during a “regular season” that 2021 team does as well as they did. It was amazing, and I loved every second of it, but I’m just not sure if things had gone normally, they’d have had the same success. Every team had to face the same Covid protocols that season, but I felt that Tinkle and staff did a great job getting the team through it all. They were able to play enough games together that year and have the team playing at a very high level when it really mattered. Maybe it was just pure good luck for Tinkle and bad luck for others, but I’m not sure every other team and staff could say the same thing that season. |
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 8, 2024 16:24:04 GMT -8
Added... and repeatedly made public comments using Covid as part of the reason for such failure when EVERY team faced to same issues. But, without looking, pretty sure no E8... even S16, R32, T68 fell to 3 wins, also having the 4th longest losing steak in '22 at 18 games?? Someone feel free to look... You’re probably correct, but I also don’t know that during a “regular season” that 2021 team does as well as they did. It was amazing, and I loved every second of it, but I’m just not sure if things had gone normally, they’d have had the same success. Every team had to face the same Covid protocols that season, but I felt that Tinkle and staff did a great job getting the team through it all. They were able to play enough games together that year and have the team playing at a very high level when it really mattered. Maybe it was just pure good luck for Tinkle and bad luck for others, but I’m not sure every other team and staff could say the same thing that season. Yep a LOT of completely unknowns that will never be. Conferences, teams, States, players, players' families all faced varying effects and circumstances. The fallacy is that some say that year and postseason was not an anomaly. That OSU's run and the entire season wasn't effected. Everyone, everything was changed, and corrupted in some fashion. To state different is just foolish. OSU had a magical run. But, to say that team would have repeated that under normal circumstances is foolish. Just as me saying they wouldn't have. It's an unknown that will always remain as such. For many NBA fans the same goes for the Lakers title. |
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Post by irimi on Feb 8, 2024 17:20:08 GMT -8
So you don't think that Miller would be successful in the modern day? Sure, the game has changed, but in essence, a coach that can coach well will always succeed. I think it is disingenuous to state that we found success before because it was a different era. You can't pin the lack of winning on the era. Regardless the era, basketball, like many sports, comes down to fundamentals, and that's one area that Tinkle's teams have always seemed to lack. This is why I think Ralph would find success as a coach even in this era. He knew what it takes to compete. I think Ralph was a great coach, but he'd have to adapt, and probably could. He would have to deal with budget constraints (compared to other schools) that simply did not exist in the 70s and 80s. It would be interesting to see recruiting budgets from those days, I suspect they would be more tightly bunched than they are now. These are the numbers from 4-5 years ago - athleticdirectoru.com/articles/an-analysis-of-college-basketball-recruiting-costs/He would have to deal with one and dones, which didn't exist in those days. Back then, the bulk of the kids were 4 year students. I suspect more of them were actually interested in school and student life. As someone mentioned earlier, he was gruff, how many of those kids wouldn't transfer in today's environment. Kids are coddled these days in comparison to then. The transfers of those days usually were generally transfers up or down between divivions or universities and JCs, not so much to schools at your same level. He had an entire season of wins vacated because players sold their shoes. Now under the table payments are basically over the table, legal, and potentially huge and the NCAA doesn't bat an eye. It's a completely different era with a completely different set of issues to deal with. You can't say he would do the same as before. Heck, he had a 12 win season in '85 and there were frequent letters to the sports editors that he "the dinosaur" should be jettisoned, for a couple years. There's a lot more to deal with these days. I guess I just view coaching a little differently. I see other Beaver coaches face many of the same challenges yet field competent teams that continue to improve. I don't think the "era" can be the cop out for Beaver basketball.
If you question whether Miller would be able to handle all of the extras in this era, then at least you'd have to agree that Tinkle clearly isn't capable. I also doubt Tinkle would have succeeded back in Miller's day. I don't think he has what it takes to succeed in any era.
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Post by speakthetruth on Feb 8, 2024 17:25:50 GMT -8
I find it interesting when some say Ralph wouldn't adapt to today's game and players. The same was said back in 85 and 86 when the shot clock and three point line came into being. The record did drop a bit in 85 but did fine in 86, 87, and 88.
A bit about Ralph and recruiting. Back when the Beavs were recruiting Lester Conner the Beavs were in the Bay Area playing Stanford and Cal. On an off day Jimmy Andersen was going to watch Lester play and basically begged Ralph to come. Ralph finally agreed. Lester had one of his typical games double digit points, rebounds, multiple steals, efc.. After the game Ralph and Jimmy met with Lester. Ralph in his surly tone focused on what Lester needed to improve on versus his glowing stats. Lester was surprised/shocked that Ralph made criticism of his play as nobody ever focused on the negatives. After that meeting Lester knew that Miller wanted Lester to be better and the recruitment was sealed.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 8, 2024 18:16:50 GMT -8
I find it interesting when some say Ralph wouldn't adapt to today's game and players. The same was said back in 85 and 86 when the shot clock and three point line came into being. The record did drop a bit in 85 but did fine in 86, 87, and 88. A bit about Ralph and recruiting. Back when the Beavs were recruiting Lester Conner the Beavs were in the Bay Area playing Stanford and Cal. On an off day Jimmy Andersen was going to watch Lester play and basically begged Ralph to come. Ralph finally agreed. Lester had one of his typical games double digit points, rebounds, multiple steals, efc.. After the game Ralph and Jimmy met with Lester. Ralph in his surly tone focused on what Lester needed to improve on versus his glowing stats. Lester was surprised/shocked that Ralph made criticism of his play as nobody ever focused on the negatives. After that meeting Lester knew that Miller wanted Lester to be better and the recruitment was sealed. He may have adapted, but the shot clock and 3 point line had zero to do with his coaching style and personality. |
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Post by ocbeav on Feb 8, 2024 21:09:28 GMT -8
It’s $8.7 question. Don’t know if can afford to fire head coach. May have to wait another year. We know he isn’t heading in the right direction.
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Post by speakthetruth on Feb 8, 2024 21:14:21 GMT -8
Just wondering its likely a player or more will be in the portal after the season and not a soul on the committment list will tinkle be at Dixon recruiting?
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Feb 9, 2024 7:51:40 GMT -8
Ok, someone brought this up on Blitz, apparently WSU's assistant came over from Western Oregon (you know the school UP 99 there S Scott Barnes) and apparently is the better coach over Smith. Offer him money and get this Orange Express back on track!
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 9, 2024 7:54:41 GMT -8
Ok, someone brought this up on Blitz, apparently WSU's assistant came over from Western Oregon (you know the school UP 99 there S Scott Barnes) and apparently is the better coach over Smith. Offer him money and get this Orange Express back on track! He is a good coach. He was a long time assistant under Romar at UW. Jim Shaw is his name. He coached at OSU in 1990-1991 as an assistant to Jimmy. |
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Feb 9, 2024 7:57:26 GMT -8
Ok, someone brought this up on Blitz, apparently WSU's assistant came over from Western Oregon (you know the school UP 99 there S Scott Barnes) and apparently is the better coach over Smith. Offer him money and get this Orange Express back on track! He is a good coach. He was a long time assistant under Romar at UW. Jim Shaw is his name. He coached at OSU in 1990-1991 as an assistant to Jimmy. Won at Western, which is an accomplishment for a teacher/cop college. Probably has some semblance of an offensive scheme, better than the crap we've seen for what 5-6 years? |
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 9, 2024 8:00:52 GMT -8
He is a good coach. He was a long time assistant under Romar at UW. Jim Shaw is his name. He coached at OSU in 1990-1991 as an assistant to Jimmy. Won at Western, which is an accomplishment for a teacher/cop college. Probably has some semblance of an offensive scheme, better than the crap we've seen for what 5-6 years? The issue is that he is 62 years old. Not sure how much longer he wants to coach. |
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Feb 9, 2024 10:09:13 GMT -8
Won at Western, which is an accomplishment for a teacher/cop college. Probably has some semblance of an offensive scheme, better than the crap we've seen for what 5-6 years? The issue is that he is 62 years old. Not sure how much longer he wants to coach. You're not looking for a lifer anymore. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 9, 2024 10:56:15 GMT -8
It’s $8.7 question. Don’t know if can afford to fire head coach. May have to wait another year. We know he isn’t heading in the right direction. We would not owe him $8.7 million the day he was relieved. He would continue to receive his monthy paycheck, for the life of his contract. If he takes another job, our financial obligation would decrease; we would pay the difference between his OSU salary and his new salary. And there are rules prohibiting him from coaching someplace for $1 or at any level below fair market value. I believe if he takes a second job after leaving OSU our financial obligation would end. So unless he never works again, there's an excellent chance we will never pay him anywhere close to $8.7 million. We could also reach a settlement and end our financial obligations with one fell swoop. I prefer to see him succeed. But that's not happening. |
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