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Post by 86BEAVER on Jan 18, 2024 18:37:45 GMT -8
...commits, or signings for 2024-25?
Did general crappiness or our impending WCC-ness have more to do with the apparent lack of action?
Even if we're low on schollies, gotta figure there will be a few defections/runoffs based on how the season is going.....and other impending changes.
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Post by easyheat on Jan 21, 2024 11:17:04 GMT -8
Recruiting is a misnomer.
Coaches no longer recruit.
They purchase.
Your recruiting activity and success is directly proportionate to the size of your NIL treasure chest.
Your roster reflects what you can afford.
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Post by speakthetruth on Jan 21, 2024 11:19:26 GMT -8
Wayne did his recruiting when his son came aboard and he hired the father of Stevie and Ethan. That's about it.
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Post by rgeorge on Jan 21, 2024 12:10:08 GMT -8
Recruiting is a misnomer. Coaches no longer recruit. They purchase. Your recruiting activity and success is directly proportionate to the size of your NIL treasure chest. Your roster reflects what you can afford. FALSE... and completely so. Just look at all the talent that is spread throughout college ball at all levels. WT is a known commodity and was never a draw in the first place. His tenure so far only made it worse. You can use NIL as one excuse to keep players once here, but not in recruiting talent... high school & transfers. Just as in football, and even more so so there are less roster spots, there is plenty of talent out there that wants the opportunity to shine. OSU baseball has triple the roster and a very similar NIL pool to draw from as far as official collectives. Yet, even an unproven college HC was able to step in and recruit at similar levels as before. It wasn't due to some increase in NIL. It was the program. Baseball is at the elite level, hoops doesn't need to be at that level to draw talent, but it needs to be relevant. And WT's program isn't even to long time faithful. In coaching 10+ years is a long time to keep a program successful and not have the "message" get tired/old. In many cases it is around that time frame that it is simply time for a change. Other highly successful coaches find ways to adapt, hit the refresh button, yet keep the program's expectations high. WT has never consistently been able to do that. In fact on more than one occasion he's admitted that the culture was not there. That some players were not coachable, that he had basically lost the locker room. No matter one's opinion it is time. The financials may be the factor that keeps it from happening, but regardless he has had 9+ seasons and year 10 looks no different at this point. Baseball was never in the funk that the hoops program went thru, but those that have been involved in the game and with OSU know PC had his struggles after those (3) 2nd place North finishes. PC had (6) straight seasons of losing in the Pac10 with finishes of 6th-8th each year. However, very different than WT he transitioned to a full conference and was consistently improving the talent. And, by Year 7 won the conference with a (9) game improvement over 2004. Afterward his teams were never consistently poor... as they were in the Top 4 in the Pac10/12 in 11 of his last 14 seasons, with a 6th place team winning the CWS. Long winded, but WT is no PC in any way shape or form and he's had plenty of time/opportunity to get the program on an upward trend and sustain it. FWIW... DeCremer is my pick for the Frosh break thru guy who is a weekend starter by the 5th series or so?? My brothers live in Arizona, and we caught some of their games. He needs some refinement, and hoping his motion becomes more "stable/repeatable". If so his location will improve dramatically as he'll not simply overpower D1 hitters. |
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Post by easyheat on Jan 21, 2024 17:20:21 GMT -8
Suggesting NIL power in recruiting is somehow linked to WT’s coaching ability is ridiculous. The best Basketball programs are now able to attract and retain great athletes with NIL. The NCAA tired of policing the “extra benefits” issue – they moved it from under the table to above the table. Kentucky, Kansas Duke and UNC for example – that’s a money game and has been since the infamous Nike v Addidas shoe wars with Sonny Vaccaro and George Raveling 25 years ago. If you don’t think the cream of America’s inner-city talent and their street agents don’t have their hand out, you need to come in out of the rain.
Look at the high school hoop landscape, kids change high schools like they change their sox – do you think it uncommon that many college MBB All Americans went to 3 or 4 different high schools and are now in their second trip through the transfer Portal? Playing for dear old Tech and Coach Jones has gone the way of the Buffalo. Show me the NIL!
NIL is a huge factor in recruiting, have you ever discussed that with coaches?
I’m disappointed, you would be the last person I would ever expect to make the naïve comparison between basketball and baseball programs. There are so many obvious and some subtle differences in the operation of those two college programs.
Oregon State baseball has a tradition unmatched in the Athletic Department, a culture of winning, teamwork, development and leadership. In general, baseball players seem to be cut from a little different cloth than basketball players.
Someday maybe we can have a discussion on things like attitude, behavior, selfishness, work ethic, entitlement, arrogance and ME-ness. And . . . . the use of NIL in purchasing elite players
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Post by rgeorge on Jan 21, 2024 18:06:45 GMT -8
Suggesting NIL power in recruiting is somehow linked to WT’s coaching ability is ridiculous. The best Basketball programs are now able to attract and retain great athletes with NIL. The NCAA tired of policing the “extra benefits” issue – they moved it from under the table to above the table. Kentucky, Kansas Duke and UNC for example – that’s a money game and has been since the infamous Nike v Addidas shoe wars with Sonny Vaccaro and George Raveling 25 years ago. If you don’t think the cream of America’s inner-city talent and their street agents don’t have their hand out, you need to come in out of the rain. Look at the high school hoop landscape, kids change high schools like they change their sox – do you think it uncommon that many college MBB All Americans went to 3 or 4 different high schools and are now in their second trip through the transfer Portal? Playing for dear old Tech and Coach Jones has gone the way of the Buffalo. Show me the NIL! NIL is a huge factor in recruiting, have you ever discussed that with coaches? I’m disappointed, you would be the last person I would ever expect to make the naïve comparison between basketball and baseball programs. There are so many obvious and some subtle differences in the operation of those two college programs. Oregon State baseball has a tradition unmatched in the Athletic Department, a culture of winning, teamwork, development and leadership. In general, baseball players seem to be cut from a little different cloth than basketball players. Someday maybe we can have a discussion on things like attitude, behavior, selfishness, work ethic, entitlement, arrogance and ME-ness. And . . . . the use of NIL in purchasing elite players . Have zero idea where a comment on WT's coaching acumen and NIL was mentioned. His coaching acumen, and program directly effect recruiting. There are plenty of talented players that aren't in the elite NIL category. WT can't attract even those. There are several years before the NIL issue ever existed that show this. Does OSU have a hoops NIL to match elite programs? Nope, but certainly could match other P6 programs and below. You realize Kansas AD admitted they have zero 6 figure hoop NIL deals, and a few 5 figure... KANSAS. Chicken or egg... have decent program that can attract upper 3*, maybe a 4* or two, win % over 55-60%+ overall, 50%+ in a conference that's typically been rated 6th best in the NET... attract players. NIL investment & excitement is there when it comes into existence. Or... Pretty pathetic program, losing record overall, 50+ games below .500 in a 6th rated conference, transfers out before the portal existed, can't attract quality players on any consistent basis... NIL intetedt/$ level extremely low. NIL isn't going to suddenly attract players to this program. Recent example... new football coach, renewed excitement, immediate NIL uptick far before any players were in the fold. Good players looking for PT look OSU's way even though the NIL is tiny compared to most P5 schools and OSU has no conference. New hoop coach/direction would bring a similar occurrence. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Jan 22, 2024 10:51:53 GMT -8
Suggesting NIL power in recruiting is somehow linked to WT’s coaching ability is ridiculous. The best Basketball programs are now able to attract and retain great athletes with NIL. The NCAA tired of policing the “extra benefits” issue – they moved it from under the table to above the table. Kentucky, Kansas Duke and UNC for example – that’s a money game and has been since the infamous Nike v Addidas shoe wars with Sonny Vaccaro and George Raveling 25 years ago. If you don’t think the cream of America’s inner-city talent and their street agents don’t have their hand out, you need to come in out of the rain. Look at the high school hoop landscape, kids change high schools like they change their sox – do you think it uncommon that many college MBB All Americans went to 3 or 4 different high schools and are now in their second trip through the transfer Portal? Playing for dear old Tech and Coach Jones has gone the way of the Buffalo. Show me the NIL! NIL is a huge factor in recruiting, have you ever discussed that with coaches? I’m disappointed, you would be the last person I would ever expect to make the naïve comparison between basketball and baseball programs. There are so many obvious and some subtle differences in the operation of those two college programs. Oregon State baseball has a tradition unmatched in the Athletic Department, a culture of winning, teamwork, development and leadership. In general, baseball players seem to be cut from a little different cloth than basketball players. Someday maybe we can have a discussion on things like attitude, behavior, selfishness, work ethic, entitlement, arrogance and ME-ness. And . . . . the use of NIL in purchasing elite players . Have zero idea where a comment on WT's coaching acumen and NIL was mentioned. His coaching acumen, and program directly effect recruiting. There are plenty of talented players that aren't in the elite NIL category. WT can't attract even those. There are several years before the NIL issue ever existed that show this. Does OSU have a hoops NIL to match elite programs? Nope, but certainly could match other P6 programs and below. You realize Kansas AD admitted they have zero 6 figure hoop NIL deals, and a few 5 figure... KANSAS. Chicken or egg... have decent program that can attract upper 3*, maybe a 4* or two, win % over 55-60%+ overall, 50%+ in a conference that's typically been rated 6th best in the NET... attract players. NIL investment & excitement is there when it comes into existence. Or... Pretty pathetic program, losing record overall, 50+ games below .500 in a 6th rated conference, transfers out before the portal existed, can't attract quality players on any consistent basis... NIL intetedt/$ level extremely low. NIL isn't going to suddenly attract players to this program. Recent example... new football coach, renewed excitement, immediate NIL uptick far before any players were in the fold. Good players looking for PT look OSU's way even though the NIL is tiny compared to most P5 schools and OSU has no conference. New hoop coach/direction would bring a similar occurrence. Isn’t that quote from Kansas AD about 2 years old? I would be surprised if that is still accurate. That said, I agree that while NIL is a weakness at OSU, it is not the number 1 reason why recruiting is poor. That rests on WT’s head. It’s not an easy place to recruit, but Tinkle’s efforts have been the main issue. Sure a good recruiter isn’t going to start bringing in 4* recruits, but one would improve the overall roster quality. |
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Post by rgeorge on Jan 22, 2024 11:40:46 GMT -8
Have zero idea where a comment on WT's coaching acumen and NIL was mentioned. His coaching acumen, and program directly effect recruiting. There are plenty of talented players that aren't in the elite NIL category. WT can't attract even those. There are several years before the NIL issue ever existed that show this. Does OSU have a hoops NIL to match elite programs? Nope, but certainly could match other P6 programs and below. You realize Kansas AD admitted they have zero 6 figure hoop NIL deals, and a few 5 figure... KANSAS. Chicken or egg... have decent program that can attract upper 3*, maybe a 4* or two, win % over 55-60%+ overall, 50%+ in a conference that's typically been rated 6th best in the NET... attract players. NIL investment & excitement is there when it comes into existence. Or... Pretty pathetic program, losing record overall, 50+ games below .500 in a 6th rated conference, transfers out before the portal existed, can't attract quality players on any consistent basis... NIL interest/$ level extremely low. NIL isn't going to suddenly attract players to this program. Recent example... new football coach, renewed excitement, immediate NIL uptick far before any players were in the fold. Good players looking for PT look OSU's way even though the NIL is tiny compared to most P5 schools and OSU has no conference. New hoop coach/direction would bring a similar occurrence. Isn’t that quote from Kansas AD about 2 years old? I would be surprised if that is still accurate. That said, I agree that while NIL is a weakness at OSU, it is not the number 1 reason why recruiting is poor. That rests on WT’s head. It’s not an easy place to recruit, but Tinkle’s efforts have been the main issue. Sure a good recruiter isn’t going to start bringing in 4* recruits, but one would improve the overall roster quality. The article(s) I read, and posted a link to a while back was speaking to data through all of 2022. All of 2023 info prob still being tabulated. Another article had similar info from Houston, and Nevada. Even with a huge donor Houston doesn't pay out 6 figure cash NIL deals. Almost all the high valued deals concern merch and the retail valuation of that merch. A local example being DJU's headphone deal, valued north of $75k but was all merch he gave to teammates. But, as we all know and you reiterated, NIL is not the issue. The state of the program is... the NIL and portal were not in existence for the first few years and still WT/his program drew little interest. The old excuse that OSU was tough to recruit to wasn't so valid once smaller programs became much better with good coaching without any 4/5* recruits. WSU became better. NIL is now the current excuse du jour. I find it very interesting that some can still actually defend his overall coaching and program after 9+ years. And, as I think (?) you may have stated earlier, that a 4-7 win Pac12 season would be considered proof he's "AGAIN" on his way to turning around his own program! I fully expect them to win a game or two they are not "supposed to" because that is just sports in general. But, he needs to be moved as soon as it makes fiscal sense... or maybe before it does?? |
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