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Post by Mike84 on Jan 10, 2024 18:19:52 GMT -8
I'm generally not a big fan of nostalgia. Go to any YouTube video of a comedian from the past or a musician from the past or an actor from the past and you'll see no end of comments about how "THOSE" were the days when comedians/musicians/actors had talent and how there has been nobody anywhere near as good in the past 5/10/20/30 years. Really? Do these people really believe this? Do they not pay any real attention to the current great talent the world has to offer?
That being said, I don't think it is just nostalgia that has a lot of people, of a wide variety of ages, looking back wistfully at how much better it used to be to be a college football fan.
I feel like I lived through that time, but I couldn't tell you exactly when it was.
It is almost certainly not next year, when fans and media will naively believe that a 12-team playoff will somehow solve what is wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all the other non-playoff post-season games mean even less than they already do).
Maybe it was the first couple of years of the 4-team playoff, when fans and media naively believed that a 4-team playoff would somehow solve what was wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all the other non-playoff post-season games mean less). But I think not.
Maybe it was the first couple of years of the BCS Bowl era, when fans and media naively believed that this system would somehow solve what was wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all non-BCS Bowls mean less). But I think not.
No, I think it was when a team could go through the year with the single goal of winning their conference. With this, they would KNOW that they were going to represent their conference in THE Bowl game that their champion played in. And they knew they would face the champion from another conference. And they knew that if they won their conference and then won their bowl game, then they had every right to claim that they were the best team in the country. If somebody else disagreed, then F' em. The fans and players of that team felt they were the best. And the second-place team in the conference, if they won their bowl game against a similarly ranked team, could at least make an argument that they were actually ONE of the top teams in the country. And if you ended up as, say, the 8th or 10th best team in the country according to some coach's poll or media poll, you were OK with that, because that was pretty darn good (and, deep down, you knew that you were actually the best team anyway).
College football has been destroyed by this incessant need to make everything about the "true" National Champion. This need to have more and more money to "compete" for this "true" National Championship, which could only happen by having EVERY game on TV and getting millions and millions from the TV deals. The resulting distortion of salaries and budgets to the point that players HAD to be given a chance to earn some money from their notoriety, which instantly got distorted into simply paying players to join your team....because you needed them to compete for this "true" National Championship.
I don't think that is nostalgia. I think we are living through the downfall of College Football as the great American pastime. Were the Romans aware when their Empire was falling? I wonder what they said about it on their message boards.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 11, 2024 0:30:58 GMT -8
I'm generally not a big fan of nostalgia. Go to any YouTube video of a comedian from the past or a musician from the past or an actor from the past and you'll see no end of comments about how "THOSE" were the days when comedians/musicians/actors had talent and how there has been nobody anywhere near as good in the past 5/10/20/30 years. Really? Do these people really believe this? Do they not pay any real attention to the current great talent the world has to offer? That being said, I don't think it is just nostalgia that has a lot of people, of a wide variety of ages, looking back wistfully at how much better it used to be to be a college football fan. I feel like I lived through that time, but I couldn't tell you exactly when it was. It is almost certainly not next year, when fans and media will naively believe that a 12-team playoff will somehow solve what is wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all the other non-playoff post-season games mean even less than they already do). Maybe it was the first couple of years of the 4-team playoff, when fans and media naively believed that a 4-team playoff would somehow solve what was wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all the other non-playoff post-season games mean less). But I think not. Maybe it was the first couple of years of the BCS Bowl era, when fans and media naively believed that this system would somehow solve what was wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all non-BCS Bowls mean less). But I think not. No, I think it was when a team could go through the year with the single goal of winning their conference. With this, they would KNOW that they were going to represent their conference in THE Bowl game that their champion played in. And they knew they would face the champion from another conference. And they knew that if they won their conference and then won their bowl game, then they had every right to claim that they were the best team in the country. If somebody else disagreed, then F' em. The fans and players of that team felt they were the best. And the second-place team in the conference, if they won their bowl game against a similarly ranked team, could at least make an argument that they were actually ONE of the top teams in the country. And if you ended up as, say, the 8th or 10th best team in the country according to some coach's poll or media poll, you were OK with that, because that was pretty darn good (and, deep down, you knew that you were actually the best team anyway). College football has been destroyed by this incessant need to make everything about the "true" National Champion. This need to have more and more money to "compete" for this "true" National Championship, which could only happen by having EVERY game on TV and getting millions and millions from the TV deals. The resulting distortion of salaries and budgets to the point that players HAD to be given a chance to earn some money from their notoriety, which instantly got distorted into simply paying players to join your team....because you needed them to compete for this "true" National Championship. I don't think that is nostalgia. I think we are living through the downfall of College Football as the great American pastime. Were the Romans aware when their Empire was falling? I wonder what they said about it on their message boards. Which Romans? The Byzantine Empire claimed to be the Roman Empire for almost nine centuries after the Western Roman Empire "fell." And the Holy Roman Empire claimed to be the Roman Empire starting in 800 and that lasted until the time of Napoleon, when Napoleon basically claimed to be the Roman Emperor. And Mussolini after that claimed that he was the Roman Emperor. I will say that the Bowl Alliance and the Bowl Coalition were great improvements to the sport, because NCAA football was stupid in the 80s. And the BCS was even better. I feel like the CFP could have been a great improvement over the BCS, but we f#*ked it up. The Pac-12 did not get enough for what we gave up. There needed to be a bigger CFP or more playoff bowls or guarantees for at least two spots for each Power Five Conference. We got none of that, and things suck as a result. There are few constants. Things change all the time. A lot for the better. Some for the worse. You adapt or die. We must adapt, or we die. There is no third road. |
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Post by kersting13 on Jan 11, 2024 12:55:37 GMT -8
Sports have a way to do this:
Yes, it was cool back in the day when a team like the Big Red Machine could exist, or when different NFL dynasties pre-free agency existed.
We have opened up the era of college free agency, seemingly without any competitive balance rules to smooth it over.
I loved the days when you could expect a lot more continuity on your pro team from year to year, same as I did for college football.
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Post by orangeattack on Jan 11, 2024 13:10:07 GMT -8
I'm generally not a big fan of nostalgia. Go to any YouTube video of a comedian from the past or a musician from the past or an actor from the past and you'll see no end of comments about how "THOSE" were the days when comedians/musicians/actors had talent and how there has been nobody anywhere near as good in the past 5/10/20/30 years. Really? Do these people really believe this? Do they not pay any real attention to the current great talent the world has to offer? That being said, I don't think it is just nostalgia that has a lot of people, of a wide variety of ages, looking back wistfully at how much better it used to be to be a college football fan. I feel like I lived through that time, but I couldn't tell you exactly when it was. It is almost certainly not next year, when fans and media will naively believe that a 12-team playoff will somehow solve what is wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all the other non-playoff post-season games mean even less than they already do). Maybe it was the first couple of years of the 4-team playoff, when fans and media naively believed that a 4-team playoff would somehow solve what was wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all the other non-playoff post-season games mean less). But I think not. Maybe it was the first couple of years of the BCS Bowl era, when fans and media naively believed that this system would somehow solve what was wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all non-BCS Bowls mean less). But I think not. No, I think it was when a team could go through the year with the single goal of winning their conference. With this, they would KNOW that they were going to represent their conference in THE Bowl game that their champion played in. And they knew they would face the champion from another conference. And they knew that if they won their conference and then won their bowl game, then they had every right to claim that they were the best team in the country. If somebody else disagreed, then F' em. The fans and players of that team felt they were the best. And the second-place team in the conference, if they won their bowl game against a similarly ranked team, could at least make an argument that they were actually ONE of the top teams in the country. And if you ended up as, say, the 8th or 10th best team in the country according to some coach's poll or media poll, you were OK with that, because that was pretty darn good (and, deep down, you knew that you were actually the best team anyway). College football has been destroyed by this incessant need to make everything about the "true" National Champion. This need to have more and more money to "compete" for this "true" National Championship, which could only happen by having EVERY game on TV and getting millions and millions from the TV deals. The resulting distortion of salaries and budgets to the point that players HAD to be given a chance to earn some money from their notoriety, which instantly got distorted into simply paying players to join your team....because you needed them to compete for this "true" National Championship. I don't think that is nostalgia. I think we are living through the downfall of College Football as the great American pastime. Were the Romans aware when their Empire was falling? I wonder what they said about it on their message boards. Which Romans? The Byzantine Empire claimed to be the Roman Empire for almost nine centuries after the Western Roman Empire "fell." And the Holy Roman Empire claimed to be the Roman Empire starting in 800 and that lasted until the time of Napoleon, when Napoleon basically claimed to be the Roman Emperor. And Mussolini after that claimed that he was the Roman Emperor. I will say that the Bowl Alliance and the Bowl Coalition were great improvements to the sport, because NCAA football was stupid in the 80s. And the BCS was even better. I feel like the CFP could have been a great improvement over the BCS, but we f#*ked it up. The Pac-12 did not get enough for what we gave up. There needed to be a bigger CFP or more playoff bowls or guarantees for at least two spots for each Power Five Conference. We got none of that, and things suck as a result. There are few constants. Things change all the time. A lot for the better. Some for the worse. You adapt or die.
We must adapt, or we die. There is no third road.You took the words right out of my brain. It's like the automobile industry. People tend to wax nostalgic for days gone by, except for the bad times. Oregon State football had their own Malaise Era and nobody misses that. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jan 11, 2024 13:56:19 GMT -8
I get the feeling. I feel the feeling.
But stepping back and really thinking about it, has there really be a time in the past 30 years where it wasn't about money? It was about money when we ended our 28 year streak, it was about money in 2000 when we were not sure we were getting that Fiesta bowl invite. It was about money in our really consistent strong era through 2009 when we were close but couldn't quite get over the hump.
We didn't have the flash of Oregon or other programs. We didn't have the locker room or the recruiting budget. The ugly side of money was there, even in these Halcyon days you harken to.
It just wasn't quite as much and grotesque as today.
I also agree adapt or die is the bottom line here. The question is who is obligated to adapt? I don't think it is the burden of the fans. Schools, possibly even lawmakers need to be proactive in identifying the bubble that college football is. Do they let it pop? do they let Rome burn?
Or do they try and prevent disaster?
I am glad we shared special moments in OSU history in an era that at least felt more pure. I agree. Maybe we don't need to focus on the reality that it probably wasn't that pure. I also feel the foreboding encroaching shadow of doom that is hovering over football. We can't all reasonably believe it just keeps going on this way.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 11, 2024 14:29:56 GMT -8
Which Romans? The Byzantine Empire claimed to be the Roman Empire for almost nine centuries after the Western Roman Empire "fell." And the Holy Roman Empire claimed to be the Roman Empire starting in 800 and that lasted until the time of Napoleon, when Napoleon basically claimed to be the Roman Emperor. And Mussolini after that claimed that he was the Roman Emperor. I will say that the Bowl Alliance and the Bowl Coalition were great improvements to the sport, because NCAA football was stupid in the 80s. And the BCS was even better. I feel like the CFP could have been a great improvement over the BCS, but we f#*ked it up. The Pac-12 did not get enough for what we gave up. There needed to be a bigger CFP or more playoff bowls or guarantees for at least two spots for each Power Five Conference. We got none of that, and things suck as a result. There are few constants. Things change all the time. A lot for the better. Some for the worse. You adapt or die.
We must adapt, or we die. There is no third road.You took the words right out of my brain. It's like the automobile industry. People tend to wax nostalgic for days gone by, except for the bad times. Oregon State football had their own Malaise Era and nobody misses that. Truth be known, we are in the golden age of automobiles. They last longer, have more bells and whistles, are safer, get better gas mileage and drive better than any time in history. My current ride has 212,000 miles on it and is going strong. That never happened for almost all of the 20th century. I totally get where you're coming from Mike but let's see how everything shakes out before shoveling dirt on OSU football. Three or four 9-3 or 10-2 seasons in a row, not an unreachable goal, and suddenly things look pretty bright (Yeah, I'm pumping sunshine). |
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Post by hottubbeaver on Jan 11, 2024 14:34:17 GMT -8
I'm generally not a big fan of nostalgia. Go to any YouTube video of a comedian from the past or a musician from the past or an actor from the past and you'll see no end of comments about how "THOSE" were the days when comedians/musicians/actors had talent and how there has been nobody anywhere near as good in the past 5/10/20/30 years. Really? Do these people really believe this? Do they not pay any real attention to the current great talent the world has to offer? That being said, I don't think it is just nostalgia that has a lot of people, of a wide variety of ages, looking back wistfully at how much better it used to be to be a college football fan. I feel like I lived through that time, but I couldn't tell you exactly when it was. It is almost certainly not next year, when fans and media will naively believe that a 12-team playoff will somehow solve what is wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all the other non-playoff post-season games mean even less than they already do). Maybe it was the first couple of years of the 4-team playoff, when fans and media naively believed that a 4-team playoff would somehow solve what was wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all the other non-playoff post-season games mean less). But I think not. Maybe it was the first couple of years of the BCS Bowl era, when fans and media naively believed that this system would somehow solve what was wrong with college football and make the "true" National Champion completely clear (while also making all non-BCS Bowls mean less). But I think not. No, I think it was when a team could go through the year with the single goal of winning their conference. With this, they would KNOW that they were going to represent their conference in THE Bowl game that their champion played in. And they knew they would face the champion from another conference. And they knew that if they won their conference and then won their bowl game, then they had every right to claim that they were the best team in the country. If somebody else disagreed, then F' em. The fans and players of that team felt they were the best. And the second-place team in the conference, if they won their bowl game against a similarly ranked team, could at least make an argument that they were actually ONE of the top teams in the country. And if you ended up as, say, the 8th or 10th best team in the country according to some coach's poll or media poll, you were OK with that, because that was pretty darn good (and, deep down, you knew that you were actually the best team anyway). College football has been destroyed by this incessant need to make everything about the "true" National Champion. This need to have more and more money to "compete" for this "true" National Championship, which could only happen by having EVERY game on TV and getting millions and millions from the TV deals. The resulting distortion of salaries and budgets to the point that players HAD to be given a chance to earn some money from their notoriety, which instantly got distorted into simply paying players to join your team....because you needed them to compete for this "true" National Championship. I don't think that is nostalgia. I think we are living through the downfall of College Football as the great American pastime. Were the Romans aware when their Empire was falling? I wonder what they said about it on their message boards. Your point about the need to chase the "true" national champion is one I fervently argued in opposition of years ago. Was the bowl system perfect for determining the "true" national champion? No, but neither was the BCS, the 4 team playoff, or the new playoff, especially since it includes byes. It was the networks and media money men who were always behind pushing the true national champion narrative. I cautioned anyone who would listen back then, I don't think there were many ; ). Be careful what you ask for. The devil you don't know may turn out to be far worse than the one you do. I loved the bowl system. Part of the beauty of college football was the mystery and ensuing arguments over who was truly the best team, but let's keep it in perspective, that maybe impacted a few teams out of 120. I would go back to the bowl system in a heartbeat if it were my decision, as long as it also included us regaining ownership of the Rose Bowl and pitted the PAC champ vs the B1G champ. Then and only then would the cfb universe return to a balanced position. |
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Post by orangeattack on Jan 11, 2024 16:04:11 GMT -8
You took the words right out of my brain. It's like the automobile industry. People tend to wax nostalgic for days gone by, except for the bad times. Oregon State football had their own Malaise Era and nobody misses that. I totally get where you're coming from Mike but let's see how everything shakes out before shoveling dirt on OSU football. Three or four 9-3 or 10-2 seasons in a row, not an unreachable goal, and suddenly things look pretty bright (Yeah, I'm pumping sunshine). Modern automobiles are incredible. They're also incredibly expensive, it blows me away that people are spending 100k+ on SUV's. And not rich people! That's what the middle class is driving these days! I'm not longing for the past in automobiles except to say that they have become more of an appliance and less of a visual work of art. I can't even complain about the experience being "too sterile" because personally I drive a tuned SUV that happens to have the twin turbo Toyota Supra motor crammed into it, machine gun exhaust and all. The stability control is magic, where it feels like you're driving a RWD hatchback with impossible grip, not an AWD SUV. The electronic adjustable suspension is fantastic. The transmission is practically telepathic. It runs a 12 second quarter mile with skis on the roof rack. This is the apex of the internal combustion engine, right now. These are the most powerful, best sounding engines ever made. What a time to be alive. It's what is next that people aren't sure of, not right now. Just like college football. People feel that electric cars are soulless, they have quality issues, they have range issues, there are questions about the resources required for the battery production. Lots of valid questions. But it's what is next. And if it's not good right away, there will be adjustments in the future that will make it better. |
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Post by grayman on Jan 11, 2024 16:19:58 GMT -8
College football has been about money for a very long time. It just gets worse for most programs as more money is available.
But looking at the last 25 years, Oregon State has been able to get quite a bit accomplished both on and off the field for a so-called have not.
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Post by Werebeaver on Jan 11, 2024 16:20:45 GMT -8
I actually enjoyed the days when at the end of the college football season two or three teams could make completely legitimate and compelling cases for being the “true” national champion. I enjoyed the imprecision and the ambiguity of the bowls. Far more interesting than this current tournament system.
Everybody wants to over-rationalize something that is at heart an entertainment spectacle.
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Post by kersting13 on Jan 11, 2024 21:21:18 GMT -8
I actually enjoyed the days when at the end of the college football season two or three teams could make completely legitimate and compelling cases for being the “true” national champion. I enjoyed the imprecision and the ambiguity of the bowls. Far more interesting than this current tournament system. Everybody wants to over-rationalize something that is at heart an entertainment spectacle. The Bowl system was great, but probably only because it had been around for so long. I loved it. I think we all understand why it existed in the first place vs a playoff. That said, if an NCAA playoff had been introduced in 1939 - I think we all would have loved that as well. To me, the folly is in attempting to meld the two together. Playoff games at traditional Bowl sites is a compromise that sucks. If the current players actually wanted to play in bowl games, I would say home field game playoffs - save for the final - and Bowl Games at Bowl Sites for the rest would be a great set-up. But, since even player from 13-0 teams don't seem to want to play in a Major NYD Bowl... |
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