Ouch.

I was at the meet, sitting 6 rows from the mat.  Great seat, Great crowd/atmosphere.  When the Beavs wrestlers were doing something positive on the mat, it was electric, so all of that was great.  I was on my feet several times with all the excitement; the Munoz match was amazing! 

What was apparent to me (and I am no expert by any means) was that PSU wrestlers were overall quicker to spot/exploit openings in the neutral position, and this enabled them to get in really deep on single leg takedowns--While I did not count the number of times that happened, I'd estimate that it happened at least 10 times (And Penn State had 32 takedowns to our 5, which is just astonishing).  

A second thing that I noticed was that when on the mat in the control position, PSU wrestlers used a cross leg technique (that I used to know the name of...) to tie up/turn the Beavs for greater control. 


So, they were technically superior in two important areas--Not a surprise, given who is their Head Coach.  


My observation of the Beavs was that they did not wrestle all that badly (except for the 125 match--It looked like Kaylor just was not fully ready to wrestle).  They were just up against superior competition (7 PSU wrestlers ranked in Top 4 nationally), and it showed.  The most important thing is to learn from the experience, and they learned things they can build on.  


 

The "experts" please weigh in, but to me to get to the "team" level of PSU and the former giants of Iowa, Ok St it will be near impossible. To me it appears much easier to find individuals that can excel and place/win at the national level, than to find a "team full" to be in the Top 5, at least on any consistent basis.

Some of my former students were multi State champs and started at schools like Ok St, Iowa St, and Iowa. They said during the "Gable heydays" there were guys 4 deep at some weights that could be NCAA placers. The one year OSU finished 2nd to Iowa (1995??) it wasn't a close team score and Iowa was said to have a "2nd team" that would have finished 2nd?!

Others have thoughts...

FYI... in looking PSU has won 10 of last 12, finished 2nd one of the years they didn't win. But, people talk of SEC football dominance... freaking B10 wrestling is far far more so since 2006. Crazy 

Yeah, I'm not hoping for being on the level of the giants. I do believe if this coaching staff stays, we can be a constant top 10 program. There are still good wrestlers out west, but we have to start landing them. We are off to a good start, and I am happy with where the program is. I also believe we can build a program where we have all american talent at every weight, with a guy or two capable of making a deep run. In a couple years, a lineup of Whisenhunt, the Singletons, Garver, Rademacher and Attao will be formidable. Just got to see where the development lands for the other guys/weights.

I'll be more upset if Pendleton and Co leave than I was when Smith left.

No. Just speaking it into existence 🙏

I appreciate the responses.  

I am no "expert," just a guy who wrestled badly, coached a little better, refereed, AD'd, etc.  IOW, involved and a bit knowledgeable, but not really much more than that.  

In trying to address the questions cogently, I see the next step as committing to a higher level of investment.  The investment takes the form of time, commitment, personnel, and money.  Time--It takes time to build a program, and more time to deliver a superior program. Commitment, in the form of coaching and wrestler efforts aimed at making what we have, which is very solid/competitive, even more so.  That requires personnel via recruiting/transfer that can be coached to that higher level, and money, in this brave new NIL world to help bring in those transfers.  I agree with kosherbeaver that the coaching is at the intergalactic level, and that the $ flowing into that program has to be really something.

That seems pretty straight-forward, and obviously self-evident, but if it were easy, every school would be doing it.  I came from a small HS program in Washington that always punched above its weight, and these elements (except for the $ part) were present in our program.  It helped that we had a Head Coach who never wrestled, but turned himself into outstanding Hall of Fame level coach.  He was all about developing kids to do their best. That was inspiring!  And seems also important here. From what I have observed, our coaching is very good.  

So how does that apply to what the Beavers are trying to do? I think rgeorge is correct in his assessment of the things the Beavers could (should?) be aiming at.  It is incredibly difficult to compete on an NCAA tournament team level; as successful a program as we have been, we only have had 9 top-5 team finishes at the NCAA's--the last one in 1995.  I was talking with the guy I was sitting next to last night, and we arrived at the same point he did--that there are wrestlers in the room at Penn State who would be NCAA qualifiers at other schools. And having that caliber of wrestler in the room makes their already excellent wrestlers that much better.  

I have always been impressed with the general quality of our 285/HWT wrestlers.  That might be the best place to start.


 

Warning... this will be rather long due to the previous posts.....good topic..... We are a couple years away from top 5, but we have some of the pieces in place to get there. The recruiting has been good and has steadily improved each year under the staff. Last years class was a good one as we were able to land several guys ranked in the top 20 in their weight and a couple in the top 10. We have also landed two Fargo champs for the next two classes. Hunter Taylor is currently ranked around 10-15 on different rankings just took 2nd at the Iron Man. We also have Reyes, a Fargo champ out of CA coming in 2025. At OSU we have to do things the old fashioned way and thats develop good kids into great kids who can begin to push for the podium as they mature and get older. The difference with Penn State is that they start with recruits who will push for the podium as true freshman. They are getting the top 2 recruits in the same weight class in some cases. Obviously with their coaching, winning and deep pockets, they have built a dynasty. But as coach said, we want to wrestle the best in the world... that means we will wrestle PSU tomorrow morning, Tuesday night and twice on Wednesday.

In terms of this season, our staff has done a good job of getting improvement out of the guys over the course of the season. We have a couple big duals coming up with ASU and Oklahoma State where we will see a lot of ranked kids. Last year we had a great Pac-12 and won the title, but we struggled at the NCAA. We will qualify a good group, and a couple weights/wrestlers will be toss-ups to get in. We need to get Kaylor back on the podium and Munoz has the ability to be in the finals. He responds to adversity well. He looked very solid two nights ago. Having a good team finish at the NCAA is definitely a boost in recruiting as well... two years ago we were the talk of the town with our 4 AA. We need to do that again because it puts OSU out there to build the brand and puts us on the radar for good recruits.

In terms of next season and beyond, The good news is that we have some good pieces in place with Whisenhunt, Belton (1 more), Tolentino, Singleton, Olquin (1 more), Muonz (1 more) , Rademacher, Attao. etc. We have other good kids as well redshirting or who are 2nd on the depth chart. After this year we will lose Kaylor, Crosby, Wittlake and McDermott from the starting lineup. We have some good kids that can fill in there next season with Renteria, Menke, Fouret and Hastriter/Attao as well as others who could develop. The staff is not going to sit on that... they have made it clear that nobody is safe. There will be portal transfers. We need to get some good ones that raise the level of the room, that bring some leadership, that fit the culture and obviously, win some matches.

Here is what I believe we need....

More future support from the community like we saw last year against Ok State and this year with Penn State. 8,5000 fans is a nice paycheck for the team. It's also great marketing for the brand. With more success, we have been able to build the schedule. Next year there are 4 big name teams coming to town including Iowa. Outside of the Big 10 we might have the toughest schedule next year. The question is, can we get 85000 out every time? Can we get that kind of Community support? Thats the difference between a top 5 team and a 10-20 team. If the staff and the program are going to develop kids, have success, then bring in 4 top 10 teams to wrestle at home, then everyone needs to support that. Don't pick one .... attend all 5! If we had 5 duals with over 8k next year, that's huge for marketing the program and for the bank account. With the conference problems, our staff has responded by already booking the best teams in the country. You will want to have season tickets next year!

Give financially to the program. I don't know how else to put this, but donate. There are a lot of ways that we have posted here on this board. Give on DAM Proud day... we raised 48k last year. In the last two years we have revamped the wrestling room and lounge to give kids top performance nutrition as well as top notch training equipment. That's what our team needs to be top 5 - top 5 training and nutrition - it also looks very good to recruits when they come. Other ways to contribute are the golf outings and other fundraisers. It's no secret that top 5 programs have deep pockets. We have to work harder at fundraising, but that is what it is going to take.

Connect to the program. Join the Takedown Team booster club, attend the post match socials, attend other OSU wrestling activities such as the tailgaters, follow on social media, etc. Spread the word and share about OSU wrestling on social media. Join the Oregon Beaver Wrestling Nation BAND App group...that's where a lot of information is put in one place. The more support that is given to the program, the more support that is shown to the kids. I can tell you from a lot of experience that feeling at home, being part of the Beaver wrestling family, feeling supported by fans, is a big part of the decision making for kids. The more we do our part in that, the more success we will have in recruiting and in retention.

Support the RTC .... as noted before, the RTC is important and our biggest successes have been with the women. We will also have Attao part of the RTC and we also have had Kodiak Stephens wrestle in two greco world championships.

Obviously NIL is a huge part of every sport and wrestling is no exception. Iowa, PSU, Ohio State, Michigan and others have very deep pockets to pay kids to go to their schools. We have to offer something more than money... support, family, a good coaching staff, a good schedule, opportunities, recognition, etc.

We have the coaching staff to have a top 5 team.... The more we support, help build the brand of Oregon State, raise money and support the program, the more recruits will be attracted to our program and the more retention we will have. For those of you who love the staff like I do, I will tell you that the support they receive from the community is a big part of retaining our staff. If there is no support, can we expect them to stay? Of course this isn't everything, but it's all very important. GO BEAVS!

We missed out on some good names in NW - Lamers, Rowley, Rogers, Walters and maybe a couple others, but we have picked up the slack with names you mentioned. Good to see PNW kids in the lineup.

Yep I agree.... Seems like the next wave is down in the middle school level.

With Coach P and Coach E connections to CA we have brought in and will be bringing in some tough kids out of CA. The staff works hard on the recruiting trail.