lefty
Freshman
Posts: 438
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Post by lefty on Dec 25, 2023 22:24:38 GMT -8
Question is have these 3 players been practicing and now all of a sudden decide not to play and if so why? How many practices have we had preparing for the Sun Bowl? This absolutely insane!
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Post by irimi on Dec 25, 2023 22:47:32 GMT -8
The NCAA has no involvement in bowl games, other than certifying them. Bowls are run by ESPN, or the local organizing committee, or the CFP, or some combination of the aforementioned. The NCAA isn't perfect, but it gets blamed for a lot of stuff it has absolutely nothing to do with. Like the CFP, or bowl games. Well that seems to make my point more valid. And it’s a damn shame the NCAA doesn’t run more of the show, in my opinion.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 25, 2023 23:28:50 GMT -8
Question is have these 3 players been practicing and now all of a sudden decide not to play and if so why? How many practices have we had preparing for the Sun Bowl? This absolutely insane! Have they been practicing? Someone said Green had surgery. Hodgins had been up in the air as to wether he was going to play according to just about every report I've read mentioning him since the Civil War game. Haven't heard much about the 3rd player, but I have never seen a practice roster either. Does every player need to call a press conference or post their post season intentions on X/Twitter? Does OSU need to post daily practice rosters, or could that cross into HIPPAA territory?
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Post by grayman on Dec 25, 2023 23:40:48 GMT -8
Question is have these 3 players been practicing and now all of a sudden decide not to play and if so why? How many practices have we had preparing for the Sun Bowl? This absolutely insane! Have they been practicing? Someone said Green had surgery. Hodgins had been up in the air as to wether he was going to play according to just about every report I've read mentioning him since the Civil War game. Haven't heard much about the 3rd player, but I have never seen a practice roster either. Does every player need to call a press conference or post their post season intentions on X/Twitter? Does OSU need to post daily practice rosters, or could that cross into HIPPAA territory? Pretty sure the news of the three players was put out there when they did not show up on the Sun Bowl two-deep for the Beavers.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 26, 2023 9:05:53 GMT -8
The NCAA has no involvement in bowl games, other than certifying them. Bowls are run by ESPN, or the local organizing committee, or the CFP, or some combination of the aforementioned. The NCAA isn't perfect, but it gets blamed for a lot of stuff it has absolutely nothing to do with. Like the CFP, or bowl games. Well that seems to make my point more valid. And it’s a damn shame the NCAA doesn’t run more of the show, in my opinion. Any time the NCAA makes rules on transfers, NIL, eligibility, etc., the universities/athletes rebel against them. And no one can compel an athlete to pay in a game he/she doesn't want to.
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Post by irimi on Dec 26, 2023 11:14:12 GMT -8
Well that seems to make my point more valid. And it’s a damn shame the NCAA doesn’t run more of the show, in my opinion. Any time the NCAA makes rules on transfers, NIL, eligibility, etc., the universities/athletes rebel against them. And no one can compel an athlete to pay in a game he/she doesn't want to. That's exactly the issue. The players don't want to play in the bowl game. Think about that for a second. If you were an athlete and your season went well enough that you earned a bowl trip, why wouldn't you play in the bowl game? It's not the natural condition of a high level athlete to pass up an opportunity to compete and to win.
So why pass up a bowl game? Money, primarily. Athletes are chasing the money. They jump in the portal to get a more lucrative offer from somewhere else. This is the big change. We've had athletes sitting out bowl games in order to go pro without an injury, but those who choose this path have increased as well.
So we are back to your statement. "...no one can compel an athlete to pay [sic] in a game he/she doesn't want to." If the players have no desire to play in the game, then the game isn't really a competition of consequence. Why? Because the players know that there are too many bowl games and most of them have very little meaning. So why bother playing it? Why not jump in the portal to make extra money? Why not avoid the game and keep yourself healthy for a possible draft? This makes sense. 100%. I agree with them.
An athlete should want to play in a game. That's what they do. That's what they love to do.
The bowl games need to have meaning to the players, not just the fans.
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Post by vhalum92 on Dec 26, 2023 13:31:02 GMT -8
It seems that paying all games of the season could be written into a NIL deal. I'm not sure how you get around borderline injuries.... just a thought.
If you are entering a contract and being paid to play... then require them to play. Just an idea.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 26, 2023 13:54:38 GMT -8
It seems that paying all games of the season could be written into a NIL deal. I'm not sure how you get around borderline injuries.... just a thought. If you are entering a contract and being paid to play... then require them to play. Just an idea. If I were "writing up" a NIL deal I would not require a kid to play the bowl.... but I could be inclined to backload it so they get that last 20-25% IF they play in the bowl game.... rather than signing the kid to a 100K deal, sign him to an 80K deal with a 20K bonus if they play the bowl. Give him incentive, but he gets to choose if the bowl game and that bonus is important. Frankly though, if a kid wants out the door, I'd let him go. It would be interesting to know what Barnes would have done if coach Smith had walked up to him after the UCLA game and the Beavs at 6 and 1 and said he wanted to leave to MSU the morning after the Civil War game... some here apparently would like him to have stuck out the season and Bowl. At this point I would have been happy to have had him dropped on the spot. I'd love it if Bray had had a few extra weeks to court recruits and our own players that have transferred out.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 26, 2023 14:05:01 GMT -8
In order to rejoin the union, the former confederate states had to have abolished slavery by state law, which was done. The only 2 slave states that had not done so, and therefore had it outlawed via the 13th amendment, were 2 that had never seceded, Kentucky and Delaware. After the requisite number of states ratify any amendment. it becomes the law of the land. Doesn't matter what the others do or don't do. But Mississippi was not really part of the United States of America until it was readmitted. Mississippi did not outlaw slavery until December 1, 1869. And that was only after Ulysses S. Grant mandated that Mississippi hold a referendum on electing a new state government and outlawing slavery on November 30, 1869. With a Republican governor and legislature, Mississippi then ratified the 14th and 15th Amendments on January 17, 1870, and were readmitted to the Union on February 23, 1870. Having said that, Mississippi was readmitted with the understanding that Mississippi would not adopt a new Constitution. However, the Democrats in Mississippi basically turned the State into a one-party state by 1876, forcing the final Republican governor out of office. Mississippi subsequently held a Constitutional Convention in 1889 and lynched the lone Republican delegate, writing a new Constitution to disarm and disenfranchise African-Americans, segregate prisons and schools, and outlawing interracial marriages. Mississippi adopted the new Constitution on November 1, 1890. Given the 1890 Constitution and its effect on Mississippi being a state, there was some debate about whether the 13th Amendment really applied to Mississippi or not. That was tied up with Mississippi's 2013 ratification of the 13th Amendment. Delaware and Kentucky each rejected the 13th Amendment in February 1865. Kentucky even voted on January 25, 1866 after the 13th Amendment was ratified that they were specifically not ratifying the 13th Amendment. Slavery was not outlawed in either state until 1891 in Kentucky and 1897 in Delaware (shortly after Delaware started to flip from being a racist Democratic state to a solid--~75%--Republican state for more than 90 years). While the 13th Amendment was certified as ratified on December 18, 1865, there was some debate about whether three or four states had indeed ratified the 13th Amendment. The 13th Amendment was not unequivocally ratified until it was ratified by Iowa on January 17, 1866. The 13th Amendment, like most amendments, was not self-executing. It enabled Congress to pass laws on the subject. The 13th Amendment did not apply to Kentucky until January 1866, when Kentucky became a part of the Freedmen's Bureau. Kentucky was the only non-Confederate state that the Freedmen's Bureau operated, and it was because of portions of Kentucky's (like Tennessee, the state tended to be more pro-slavery to anti-slavery from West to East) resistance to the 13th Amendment. The 13th Amendment did not apply to Delaware until the Civil Rights Act of 1866, wherein, among other things, the Federal government made slavery illegal. The Civil Rights Act of 1866 was not passed until April 9, 1866, over President Andrew Johnson's veto. At that point, slavery in fact was made illegal in the State of Delaware. The Civil Rights Act of 1866 specifically did not apply to Oklahoma. The Creek Tribe was the last of the five civilized tribes to outlaw slavery, only agreeing to outlaw slavery on June 14, 1866.
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 26, 2023 14:14:38 GMT -8
It seems that paying all games of the season could be written into a NIL deal. I'm not sure how you get around borderline injuries.... just a thought. If you are entering a contract and being paid to play... then require them to play. Just an idea. Again... some just don't get it. The NIL isn't a pay to play contract. It's pay for personal services. You can't pay to play. Second... not every player gets a NIL deal. Schollie players get lots of stuff including stipends allowed by P5 policy. But, schollie doesn't equal NIL.
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Post by grayman on Dec 26, 2023 14:51:46 GMT -8
Any time the NCAA makes rules on transfers, NIL, eligibility, etc., the universities/athletes rebel against them. And no one can compel an athlete to pay in a game he/she doesn't want to. That's exactly the issue. The players don't want to play in the bowl game. Think about that for a second. If you were an athlete and your season went well enough that you earned a bowl trip, why wouldn't you play in the bowl game? It's not the natural condition of a high level athlete to pass up an opportunity to compete and to win.
So why pass up a bowl game? Money, primarily. Athletes are chasing the money. They jump in the portal to get a more lucrative offer from somewhere else. This is the big change. We've had athletes sitting out bowl games in order to go pro without an injury, but those who choose this path have increased as well.
So we are back to your statement. "...no one can compel an athlete to pay [sic] in a game he/she doesn't want to." If the players have no desire to play in the game, then the game isn't really a competition of consequence. Why? Because the players know that there are too many bowl games and most of them have very little meaning. So why bother playing it? Why not jump in the portal to make extra money? Why not avoid the game and keep yourself healthy for a possible draft? This makes sense. 100%. I agree with them.
An athlete should want to play in a game. That's what they do. That's what they love to do.
The bowl games need to have meaning to the players, not just the fans.
Almost everybody played for OSU in the Las Vegas Bowl just last year. Players are not suddenly bailing because there's too many bowl games. And why would you not want to play Notre Dame? No, in OSU's case this a combination of going for the money (either by hitting the portal or getting ready for a shot at the NFL), looking for another place to play because Smith and some of the staff left and probably worry about not playing in the Pac-12 anymore.
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 26, 2023 14:53:44 GMT -8
I'm worried we're going to get rolled and spoil our perfect 2-0 lifetime record.
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Post by grayman on Dec 26, 2023 14:56:43 GMT -8
I'm worried we're going to get rolled and spoil our perfect 2-0 lifetime record. OSU definitely has some thin spots but so does Notre Dame. It won't be easy because Notre Dame probably can handle some of the hits to the roster better than the Beavers but we'll see. I think there's a good possibility it will be a good game.
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Post by irimi on Dec 26, 2023 15:22:03 GMT -8
That's exactly the issue. The players don't want to play in the bowl game. Think about that for a second. If you were an athlete and your season went well enough that you earned a bowl trip, why wouldn't you play in the bowl game? It's not the natural condition of a high level athlete to pass up an opportunity to compete and to win.
So why pass up a bowl game? Money, primarily. Athletes are chasing the money. They jump in the portal to get a more lucrative offer from somewhere else. This is the big change. We've had athletes sitting out bowl games in order to go pro without an injury, but those who choose this path have increased as well.
So we are back to your statement. "...no one can compel an athlete to pay [sic] in a game he/she doesn't want to." If the players have no desire to play in the game, then the game isn't really a competition of consequence. Why? Because the players know that there are too many bowl games and most of them have very little meaning. So why bother playing it? Why not jump in the portal to make extra money? Why not avoid the game and keep yourself healthy for a possible draft? This makes sense. 100%. I agree with them.
An athlete should want to play in a game. That's what they do. That's what they love to do.
The bowl games need to have meaning to the players, not just the fans.
Almost everybody played for OSU in the Las Vegas Bowl just last year. Players are not suddenly bailing because there's too many bowl games. And why would you not want to play Notre Dame? No, in OSU's case this a combination of going for the money (either by hitting the portal or getting ready for a shot at the NFL), looking for another place to play because Smith and some of the staff left and probably worry about not playing in the Pac-12 anymore. Why would you not want to play Notre Dame? Because the game is meaningless. And as you note, there's money to be made elsewhere.
I think you will find that schools without a drastic coaching change also have players jumping into the portal and aiming for the big bucks.
This isn't a new discussion. Folks have been complaining about this for years, but it has become amplified with the portal. And if you look at the top games, no one opts out and no one jumps into the portal before the game. That's my point.
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 26, 2023 15:28:35 GMT -8
Hmmmm... "top games"... the 4 CFP teams have 30 total in the portal.
Big money? What big money? Most of the portal players are looking for PT. Most are lower tier/subs. Many will not find a spot let alone big money.
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