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Post by rgeorge on Dec 11, 2023 14:34:43 GMT -8
Well... since a couple different posters brought it up I'll not quote any one specific, but:
-Daniels brings a ton more to the table than either Nix or Pennix. All can "run", but Daniels is far more athletic and a threat to take a collapsing pocket to the house. The other two will pick up a first down or run some vs m2m on a broken pocket. But, Daniels ran for more yards than many good RBs;
-The Heisman is not a conference award. I do not care where Burrow or Daniels played or who against. It is impossible to project players vs different teams/leagues. The point is, Daniels was regularly spectacular. Not just good. For those who do like to project... I am glad it was not Daniels vs OSU at Reser. The guy has the arm, the touch, the patience, the savvy, the legs, the speed, and the elusiveness. He is as complete of mobile QB as there is. I was glad he left ASU as they were NEVER going to find a replacement equal to him.
And... he won the award fairly convincingly... so the rest is all just noise.
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beavheart
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Post by beavheart on Dec 11, 2023 14:57:52 GMT -8
I watched him play at ASU, just like you did. The stats really don't mean that much to me. Yeah, he was ok while at ASU. I didn't ever think he was remotely Heisman material, and neither did anyone else. Then goes and is surrounded by "way more talent" and just kills it? 1 year makes all the difference? What about all that talent on the SEC defenses? Shouldn't it have been MORE difficult for him in the SEC? Bottom line, the hype given to the SEC is completely out of hand. Joe Burrow couldn't even break into tOSUs starting line-up. Went to LSU and set all kinds of records there, won Heisman, NC, 1/1 in draft, SB in 2nd year. Daniels may have exploded on the CFB world at ASU as well had he stuck around. Perhaps. I have nothing against a guy developing. Some guys make a leap up when thrown into the fire. In all honesty, I didn't watch a lot of LSU games this year, but the couple I did watch I thought he looked like the same player. Good, but not great, and inconsistent. Penix is a much better QB, this year. What they do after this really doesn't matter. The question I have is - Suppose he had the same kind of season at ASU. 9-3 with losses in the biggest games of the season. Say he was balling, and dropping dimes in tight coverage, and killing defenses with his legs when things broke down. Does anyone honestly think he would be anywhere near the Heisman conversation at ASU? I sure as he'll don't. You know the voters would just chalk it up to weak defenses in the Pac12, in spite of the fact that it was the best conference this year and the SEC was like 5th best by record. We've been told for years, Heisman = best player on the best team. LSU isn't close to the best team. For me, the thin veil of fairness is gone entirely from the sport. East coast bias is real, and thriving! |
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 11, 2023 15:35:07 GMT -8
I not sure who "told" anyone that the Heisman is the "best player on the best team". It is the best player, typically the current season is the one weighed, not a career... in the eyes of the majority of the voters. It is in the minority the player has been from the best team. Mostly as it is voted on well before any bowls/playoffs. And teams with multiple losses have had players win the award many times. Team success is a factor until it isn't. Just since 2011... counts bowl losses '23... Daniels 3 loss team, will end up ?? '22... Williams 3 loss team, ended up around 12th '21... Young 2 loss team, ended up 2nd '20... Smith 0 losses, ended up as #1 team '19... Burrow 0 losses, ended up #1 '18... Murray 2 loss team, ended up 6th '17... Mayfield 2 loss team, ended up 3rd '16... Jackson 4 loss team, ended up 21st '15... Henry 1 loss team, ended up #1 '14... Mariotta 2 loss team, ended up 2nd '13... Winston 0 losses, ended up #1 '12... Manziel 2 loss team, ended up 5th '11... Griffin III... 3 loss team, ended up 13th The "best"/#1 has won the Heisman like (7) times in the 2000's... depending on CFP, BCS, voting. A team with (4) losses have won it twice (Tebow/FL in '07). Pretty good article: www.heisman.com/articles/wins-losses-and-the-heisman/ |
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Post by ochobeavo on Dec 11, 2023 15:56:57 GMT -8
I see a ton of chirping about him playing against the "best" defenses in the SEC. He was entirely pedestrian during his 2 years at ASU, but goes to the SEC and dominates. Something doesn't make sense here. Maybe the Herm Edwards effect is real. 2 guys from the 2021 team transfer out and become quality WRs at Florida and Florida St RB Rachaad White playing for Tampa Bay. Other RB is backup at Ohio State OL transfers to Michigan and is 1st team All B10 TE is with the Commanders practice squad Daniels wins a Heisman. |
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 11, 2023 16:25:41 GMT -8
I see a ton of chirping about him playing against the "best" defenses in the SEC. He was entirely pedestrian during his 2 years at ASU, but goes to the SEC and dominates. Something doesn't make sense here. Maybe the Herm Edwards effect is real. 2 guys from the 2021 team transfer out and become quality WRs at Florida and Florida St RB Rachaad White playing for Tampa Bay. Other RB is backup at Ohio State OL transfers to Michigan and is 1st team All B10 TE is with the Commanders practice squad Daniels wins a Heisman. Pretty surprising to be honest. From a distance I would have thought that Herm had a high likelihood of success. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 11, 2023 17:57:00 GMT -8
Maybe the Herm Edwards effect is real. 2 guys from the 2021 team transfer out and become quality WRs at Florida and Florida St RB Rachaad White playing for Tampa Bay. Other RB is backup at Ohio State OL transfers to Michigan and is 1st team All B10 TE is with the Commanders practice squad Daniels wins a Heisman. Pretty surprising to be honest. From a distance I would have thought that Herm had a high likelihood of success. Because he had so much success with the Bengals? |
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 11, 2023 19:00:21 GMT -8
Joe Burrow couldn't even break into tOSUs starting line-up. Went to LSU and set all kinds of records there, won Heisman, NC, 1/1 in draft, SB in 2nd year. Daniels may have exploded on the CFB world at ASU as well had he stuck around. Yes, and there were some real issues at ASU that last year. Very negative team chemistry. Like this: brobible.com/sports/article/jayden-daniels-heismans-arizona-state-teammates-sucks/ |
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 11, 2023 19:26:31 GMT -8
Pretty surprising to be honest. From a distance I would have thought that Herm had a high likelihood of success. Because he had so much success with the Bengals? pretty sure Herm never coached in Cincinnati but when I looked up his coaching record I think I had conflated some of his success with that of Tony Dungy's. |
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Post by rgeorge on Dec 11, 2023 20:51:18 GMT -8
Herm hadn't coached at the college level since '89 at San Jose State. Was 56-78 as NFL HC. Hadn't coached anywhere for 10 years before his buddy hired him at ASU in 2018.
Pretty much everyone knew it was just a matter of time for the implosion.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 11, 2023 21:16:18 GMT -8
Because he had so much success with the Bengals? pretty sure Herm never coached in Cincinnati but when I looked up his coaching record I think I had conflated some of his success with that of Tony Dungy's. Yeah, got him confused with Marvin Lewis. Don't follow the NFL as closely as I used to. |
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 12, 2023 0:21:34 GMT -8
pretty sure Herm never coached in Cincinnati but when I looked up his coaching record I think I had conflated some of his success with that of Tony Dungy's. Yeah, got him confused with Marvin Lewis. Don't follow the NFL as closely as I used to. hahahahaha Well aren't we a couple of senile old codgers lol |
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