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Post by speakthetruth on Nov 15, 2023 9:26:00 GMT -8
The court proceeding was more or less civil this Saturday on and off the field it isn't going to be. I literally sit across the aisle from the visitor section it will be interesting.
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Post by vhalum92 on Nov 15, 2023 9:29:49 GMT -8
I would like us to keep in mind... we are still looking for new conference members or a new conference. The way we act, now that we have the voting power, can either make us look like a good conference partner or a bad.
We also need to figure out a strategy for a media deal or how we are going to leverage the pac 12 network.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 15, 2023 9:40:02 GMT -8
A prudent board will see a conference w/o a media rights deal for the foreseeable future(2 years) and will build a contingency for that. 2 members @ $35 large x2 years =$140 million withheld from distribution............. Other added costs for rebuilding a conference to the NCAA minimum (6 more schools) I don't know, 10 large per school, 20 large? Probably another $100 million withheld Go Beavs!! Exactly, Henry S is simply wrong on this issue. The same section of the bylaws that removed the traitors from the board, also gives the Pac 12 the right to seek damages from the departing members, when the remaining members have suffered damages. WSU and OSU's damages are huge and on going. Liabilities from lawsuits could be very large. It would be unbelievably bad business practice to give them all the money they think they are due. Withhold a massive amount of it in reserve to cover our costs, lost revenue and costs to re-establish the pac 12. And remain tied up in court forever in search of your pound of flesh. This is a bad divorce. Find the dollar amount, pay it, and be done with them. Like it or not, they are members of the conference until 8/1/24. Deal with them fairly and avoid further lengthy legal entanglements. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 15, 2023 9:41:35 GMT -8
A prudent board will see a conference w/o a media rights deal for the foreseeable future(2 years) and will build a contingency for that. 2 members @ $35 large x2 years =$140 million withheld from distribution............. Other added costs for rebuilding a conference to the NCAA minimum (6 more schools) I don't know, 10 large per school, 20 large? Probably another $100 million withheld Go Beavs!! Exactly, Henry S is simply wrong on this issue. The same section of the bylaws that removed the traitors from the board, also gives the Pac 12 the right to seek damages from the departing members, when the remaining members have suffered damages. WSU and OSU's damages are huge and on going. Liabilities from lawsuits could be very large. It would be unbelievably bad business practice to give them all the money they think they are due. Withhold a massive amount of it in reserve to cover our costs, lost revenue and costs to re-establish the pac 12. The risk, or the threat, in all of this from the traitorous 10 is their belief they can dissolve the Pac-12 without a board vote and just go ahead and do it anyways This is based on UW's legal filings which state because it is a non-profit formed in California, it can be dissolved accordingly they the members and they don't have to be on the board. Or so they claim. I have not idea if this is true or not. It was UW's assertation it was state law and not a matter of the Pac-12 bylaws. Then again, we just saw the prowess of UW lawyers on display yesterday and you can color me unimpressed. |
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Post by p8nted on Nov 15, 2023 9:44:09 GMT -8
Exactly, Henry S is simply wrong on this issue. The same section of the bylaws that removed the traitors from the board, also gives the Pac 12 the right to seek damages from the departing members, when the remaining members have suffered damages. WSU and OSU's damages are huge and on going. Liabilities from lawsuits could be very large. It would be unbelievably bad business practice to give them all the money they think they are due. Withhold a massive amount of it in reserve to cover our costs, lost revenue and costs to re-establish the pac 12. And remain tied up in court forever in search of your pound of flesh. This is a bad divorce. Find the dollar amount, pay it, and be done with them. Like it or not, they are members of the conference until 8/1/24. Deal with them fairly and avoid further lengthy legal entanglements. That is where I am. Withholding any significant amount from the 23-24 payouts will lead to a few years of court battles and more limbo and nobody gets paid anything for 23-24. Can we afford to go a year or two with no revenue stream to speak of? |
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 15, 2023 9:44:43 GMT -8
Exactly, Henry S is simply wrong on this issue. The same section of the bylaws that removed the traitors from the board, also gives the Pac 12 the right to seek damages from the departing members, when the remaining members have suffered damages. WSU and OSU's damages are huge and on going. Liabilities from lawsuits could be very large. It would be unbelievably bad business practice to give them all the money they think they are due. Withhold a massive amount of it in reserve to cover our costs, lost revenue and costs to re-establish the pac 12. And remain tied up in court forever in search of your pound of flesh. This is a bad divorce. Find the dollar amount, pay it, and be done with them. Like it or not, they are members of the conference until 8/1/24. Deal with them fairly and avoid further lengthy legal entanglements. I gotta agree here. This is one of those, just because we can, doesn't me we should things. It is still 10 against 2. This is a thing that can hamstring us for years and years and tie up money for years and years. I do not see the opportunity cost playing in our favor. Make a straight offer of their fair share of revenue less any comcast repayment and move on in life. |
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Post by p8nted on Nov 15, 2023 9:46:42 GMT -8
And remain tied up in court forever in search of your pound of flesh. This is a bad divorce. Find the dollar amount, pay it, and be done with them. Like it or not, they are members of the conference until 8/1/24. Deal with them fairly and avoid further lengthy legal entanglements. I gotta agree here. This is one of those, just because we can, doesn't me we should things. It is still 10 against 2. This is a thing that can hamstring us for years and years and tie up money for years and years. I do not see the opportunity cost playing in our favor. Make a straight offer of their fair share of revenue less any comcast repayment and move on in life. Monty said the Comcast debt is done as Comcast is withholding the payment this year to cover the debt. Also read the PAC 12 school are raiding the conference reserve fund to cover the lower Comcast payments. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Nov 15, 2023 9:50:56 GMT -8
I'm all for being "fair" but those 10 have caused and continue to cause unnecessary angst. Determine their equal share and then withhold say 10 million from each for being the A holes they are.
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Post by beaver55to7 on Nov 15, 2023 9:51:40 GMT -8
Exactly, Henry S is simply wrong on this issue. The same section of the bylaws that removed the traitors from the board, also gives the Pac 12 the right to seek damages from the departing members, when the remaining members have suffered damages. WSU and OSU's damages are huge and on going. Liabilities from lawsuits could be very large. It would be unbelievably bad business practice to give them all the money they think they are due. Withhold a massive amount of it in reserve to cover our costs, lost revenue and costs to re-establish the pac 12. And remain tied up in court forever in search of your pound of flesh. This is a bad divorce. Find the dollar amount, pay it, and be done with them. Like it or not, they are members of the conference until 8/1/24. Deal with them fairly and avoid further lengthy legal entanglements. Murthy, Barnes and Schulz have all said over and over and over that We (OSU and WSU) did not cause this problem, but it is a huge problem with huge costs, the ones who caused this problem for us need to step up and help solve the problem. They can do that in many ways, schedule home games with us, help us into a conference that works for us, or we can use the bylaws to force them to pay for our damages. They have had and will have ample time in mediation to come to a fair agreement with OSU and WSU, if they don't we control the money and will be paid for our damages. The golden rule applies, they who have the gold make the rules. It has been used to our detriment, now it will be used to our gain. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 15, 2023 10:00:05 GMT -8
Yes they can. And acting in a fair and ethical manner will help speed that process and protect us from legal redress.
Unlike some, I'm not interested in retribution or revenge or getting our pound of flesh. What's done is done. They're not coming back and we will have a new chapter to write with new partners. Settle this thing and move on so we can get our own situation straightened out ASAP.
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Post by Werebeaver on Nov 15, 2023 10:13:02 GMT -8
I would like us to keep in mind... we are still looking for new conference members or a new conference. The way we act, now that we have the voting power, can either make us look like a good conference partner or a bad. We also need to figure out a strategy for a media deal or how we are going to leverage the pac 12 network. I don’t see Murthy/Barnes and Schulz/Chung being reckless or vindictive. All 4 are smart, responsible and professional leaders. |
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Post by justheretoread on Nov 15, 2023 10:21:57 GMT -8
It seems there is a school of thought that all of the member institutions are entitled to a proportionate amount of the revenue distributions (from media contracts, rose bowl contract, etc) regardless of whether or not the conference is liquid / can continue to operate. The sentiment appears to originate from the belief that the other schools have earned it because they were a member of the conference this year, so it would be unfair to withhold any of that revenue from them.
There is an alternative school of thought that the member institutions didn't earn anything, the conference earned it. The schools themselves didn't enter into any contracts with ESPN, FOX, Rose Bowl, etc. - the conference did. What and how those assets (future receivables) are distributed is governed by the bylaws and to a lesser extent California law (if the bylaws are silent on something).
I haven't read the segment of bylaws that address distributions, nor am I familiar with how California law governs non-profit associations. It's possible the bylaws are very specific on this, in which case ('moral' high ground or not) OSU/WSU should follow them. I do recall the bylaws including a provision for assessing damages due to breach, which seems like it would come into play here. In the absence of clarity in the bylaws (and assuming no conflicting common law in California), I think there is a very reasonable position where the conference withholds whatever funds it's Board deems necessary to keep the conference operating. And if that were to happen, the conference would not be acting 'unfairly' whatsoever - it is merely doing what it needs to do in order to operate.
To me, an interesting legal question is whether the conference, under California law, is more like a 'partnership' where the member institutions (as partners) have an equitable interest in the assets (or losses) of the partnership .... OR a corporation, where the conference is a separate legal entity that stands on it's own. If it's the former, the departing schools, in theory, would be not only entitled to future receivables but also the sale of capital assets (i.e., Pac12 Network). If it's the latter, they are not 'entitled' to anything beyond what the bylaws require the conference to distribute.
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Post by rgeorge on Nov 15, 2023 10:36:09 GMT -8
So, As I read Bill's info and the bylaws, seeking damages from members due to their leaving the conferences was IF they left prior to 8/1/24. Giving notice to leave at the end of the current media contract doe snot fit that narrative. Also, universities leaving under such circumstances are not liable for other universities positioning... being inviting or not to another conference. If all (12) retaining voting rights and had voted to disband the conference leaving OSU and WSU high and dry, then it would be a different story. However, this decision states the Pac12 still exists, and OSU and WSU take on the responsibilities to rebuild or  They also are entitled to all future revenues due the Pac12. But, they are not due damages as they themselves have stated they want to remain in the Pac12/2. Damages as far as a failed media deal also can not be proven as the Pac12 bylaws explicitly state how voting takes place. Just because a school9s) "seemingly" undermined the negotiation it was done within the bylaws/voting procedures. You can't use the bylaws for one purpose and then ignore them in another. However, what is weird to me is that the UW and Oregon Presidents both as no shows for the Apple presentation/vote was in conflict with board policy whether they gave notice or not. Hence, by their actions showed they "gave up" board rights by not appearing and giving whatever input they chose to give. OSU/WSU need to simply the process and move on. The reverse merger or whatever the speculation that permeates this board is not the immediate issue. In a very simplistic summary OSU?WSU need to: - all '23-24 revenues & liabilities are split as if the Pac12 exists as before, because it does until 8/1/24. No additional payouts of future revenues to the Ten are required. Operations continued as "normal" and the board takes a more active/complete control, commish is not needed. IF GK can be removed for cause AND it is not seen as detrimental to the other Ten he should be terminated and Luck should be hired in a temp/interim basis; - WSU/OSU sign off that they will not seek any future damage claims: A) unless any school(s) future actions impede or cause damages to rebuilding the conference or media contract negotiations ;(B) any future NC game contracts will be home & home; - WSU/OSU formulate a Pac2 business plan and budget analysis for utilization of the future revenues. This plan need to be presented to the court to show it is indeed "future" revenue and in no way negativity impacts the Ten. In simplistic terms show that the Ten have been fully "paid off" and are no longer part of the Pac2 and their future plans. Included are any planned mergers or scheduling agreements and the cost analysis of each. Also, the process, progress on any new media deal or lack thereof and the budget analysis. In doing so, the Pac2 needs to revamp/rewrite/create a set of new bylaws that address all the "holes" in the current Pac12 policies and also addresses conference realignment, additions, subtractions. Paying close attention to how former conference members would be handled. As the language can be seen as treating them in a different/negative fashion to the court; OSU/WSU need to be both proactive and overtly clear that it is they who are following the Pac12 bylaws to the letter until 8/1/24. The Ten will be given their fair share as outlined and following past practices. And, as of 8/1/24 we wish them "well" on their future conference affiliations. |
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Post by rgeorge on Nov 15, 2023 10:41:49 GMT -8
The court proceeding was more or less civil this Saturday on and off the field it isn't going to be. I literally sit across the aisle from the visitor section it will be interesting. There were 1000's of seat for sale on the secondary market, still hundreds this morning. Depending on your section you might be IN the visitors' section. I fully expect most of the seats that have been single game tix around our seats in 234/233 will be Huskies  |
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Post by jrbeavo on Nov 15, 2023 10:54:13 GMT -8
Yes they can. And acting in a fair and ethical manner will help speed that process and protect us from legal redress. Unlike some, I'm not interested in retribution or revenge or getting our pound of flesh. What's done is done. They're not coming back and we will have a new chapter to write with new partners. Settle this thing and move on so we can get our own situation straightened out ASAP. It is not about revenge or retribution, it is about taking advantage of a one-time potential windfall to stabilize us and set us up for a reasonable and prosperous path forward. 10 out of 12 have a mapped out future, and face a possible short term hit. We have no mapped out future with a possible short term financial injection. I still like their position much more.
I get the "handle it like a gentleman" argument...but not if all that does is make everyone pat us on the head and tell us how swell we are as we head towards obscurity. We aren't going to have multiple shots at this.
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They also are entitled to all future revenues due the Pac12. But, they are not due damages as they themselves have stated they want to remain in the Pac12/2.