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Post by hottubbeaver on Oct 23, 2023 9:03:15 GMT -8
If you like defensive battles this was a really good game. The ending however was quite a surprise and like nothing I can recall. Initially the play in question went to review to determine if returner had stepped out of bounds. He hadn't, however the replay official expanded the review and delivered a highly controversial and game deciding call which can be seen in video linked.
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Post by 93beav on Oct 23, 2023 9:45:38 GMT -8
Well....by the letter of the law, it sounds like he gave an incorrect signal. An unfortunate mistake.
I guess it depends upon whether anyone on the field reacted due to the incorrect signal. Even reviewing the play in the first place was suspect, he was no where near stepping out of bounds. It seems like they used that as a doorway to do the bigger review. Just unfortunate all around.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 23, 2023 9:55:22 GMT -8
I have a friend on another board who is a Division II official, and I asked him about this play. Before each game, he tells the returners, "Do not wave your hand in any fashion. You can point, but if you start motioning, we will kill the play."
There is no flag thrown, because it's not a "penalty." The play is simply blown dead. Which the officials apparently did not do.
Absolutely the correct call, absolutely bad administration of said call.
Glad the Gophers won. Fleck rubs some people the wrong way, but he has significantly upgraded Minnesota. There are rumors of him going to Arkansas in 2024, which to me seems like a lateral move. Neither team is going to win its conference, but I guess it's warmer in Fayetteville.
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Post by bennyskid on Oct 23, 2023 10:51:46 GMT -8
The purpose of the fair catch rule is to prevent injury. Just like roughing the passer/kicker, illegal blocks, and targeting. When in doubt, these officials will always err on the side of safety.
This case is a little unusual, in that it isn't about the direct safety of that particular player, but of the next returner that defense sees. But it's still about safety.
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Post by hottubbeaver on Oct 23, 2023 10:55:11 GMT -8
I have a friend on another board who is a Division II official, and I asked him about this play. Before each game, he tells the returners, "Do not wave your hand in any fashion. You can point, but if you start motioning, we will kill the play." There is no flag thrown, because it's not a "penalty." The play is simply blown dead. Which the officials apparently did not do. Absolutely the correct call, absolutely bad administration of said call. Glad the Gophers won. Fleck rubs some people the wrong way, but he has significantly upgraded Minnesota. There are rumors of him going to Arkansas in 2024, which to me seems like a lateral move. Neither team is going to win its conference, but I guess it's warmer in Fayetteville. I listened to Ferentz's post game interview to get his view on the play. According to him, before every game they discuss with the refs exactly what constitutes a fair catch signal. He further stated they all agreed it had to include a waving hand while raised above the head. The video clearly shows the PR waived the left hand in some fashion, appears to be a "get away" gesture from the spot he was pointing to with right hand. I don't see where left hand is ever raised above shoulder height, and it certainly was never raised above head height.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 23, 2023 11:10:50 GMT -8
The thing I find unusual, if true, is finding the wave upon review. I would think you review the initial call/question only, otherwise every play (at least every return), call or no call, should be reviewed for reasons to call the play dead.
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ftd
Junior
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 2,517
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Post by ftd on Oct 23, 2023 11:12:31 GMT -8
He also made a motion with his right hand. Pretty ticky tacky I think..but if the letter of the rule was broken then i'ts dead where he caught it. I would seem "ANY' arm movement other than the right hand over head would end in the same ruling
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Post by hottubbeaver on Oct 23, 2023 11:38:29 GMT -8
The thing I find unusual, if true, is finding the wave upon review. I would think you review the initial call/question only, otherwise every play (at least every return), call or no call, should be reviewed for reasons to call the play dead. Yes, they reviewed to see if he stepped out of bounds, he hadn't. So the refs on the field did not interpret a fair catch signal as being made, and maybe more telling, if you look closely at the reaction on the Minnesota sideline, they had no reaction after he fielded the ball and took off. They had a front row seat on the play and had they thought he'd signaled fair catch, their would have been an immediate reaction when he took off after the catch.
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Post by beavaristotle on Oct 23, 2023 12:44:28 GMT -8
If you like defensive battles this was a really good game. The ending however was quite a surprise and like nothing I can recall. Initially the play in question went to review to determine if returner had stepped out of bounds. He hadn't, however the replay official expanded the review and delivered a highly controversial and game deciding call which can be seen in video linked. worse than that call to me was the spot late in the Houston - Texas game. Clearly a first down and clearly marked by the side judge, but when spotted for the measurement it’s moved back 2 feet. I thought incompetent was confined to Pac 12 refs.
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Post by pabeaver on Oct 23, 2023 12:46:26 GMT -8
I didn’t know this was a reviewable call/non-call.
When I first saw it, it seemed like he was just waiving his left arm to balance himself. I will say though that every returner is taught at an early age to not wave their arms and never give the “stay away” signal. Players forget these things in the moment though unfortunately.
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Post by TheGlove on Oct 23, 2023 13:44:43 GMT -8
Bottom line is the returner gave an invalid fair catch signal, tough break to nullify a great return, but...
Iowa still had the ball with 1:33 left to kick the game winning field goal. 1-10 from their own 46 yard line and 1:33 and a timeout left. I didn't see the rest of the game how did it end (besides Minnie getting the W)?
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Post by ochobeavo on Oct 23, 2023 13:49:29 GMT -8
The O/U on this game was 30 which is absolutely insane. I'm not sure I've seen one that low before. 12-10 final lol.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 23, 2023 14:50:24 GMT -8
Bottom line is the returner gave an invalid fair catch signal, tough break to nullify a great return, but... Iowa still had the ball with 1:33 left to kick the game winning field goal. 1-10 from their own 46 yard line and 1:33 and a timeout left. I didn't see the rest of the game how did it end (besides Minnie getting the W)? QB threw a pick.
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Post by hottubbeaver on Oct 23, 2023 15:17:21 GMT -8
Bottom line is the returner gave an invalid fair catch signal, tough break to nullify a great return, but... Iowa still had the ball with 1:33 left to kick the game winning field goal. 1-10 from their own 46 yard line and 1:33 and a timeout left. I didn't see the rest of the game how did it end (besides Minnie getting the W)? That was the claim anyhow. What I don't like about it is the fact the refs on the field didn't see it that way. It sure appears Minnesota didn't see it that way either. Then after a review of whether he went out of bounds or not, someone removed from the field, with only an overhead view, not ground level, and with no feel for how the play carried out, decides to expand the review into interpreting a hand gesture in a way nobody who watched live interpreted it. I've "heard" what the rule is, but I haven't actually seen the rule to know with any certainty how black and white, or gray it is in it's description of what does or does not constitute a fair catch signal. There is no hand movement at all during his preceding 4-5 steps prior to fielding the ball which would usually be when the signal is given with the exception of a kick inside the 15 and a fake fair catch is employed.
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Post by kersting13 on Oct 23, 2023 15:24:44 GMT -8
If you like defensive battles this was a really good game. The ending however was quite a surprise and like nothing I can recall. Initially the play in question went to review to determine if returner had stepped out of bounds. He hadn't, however the replay official expanded the review and delivered a highly controversial and game deciding call which can be seen in video linked. worse than that call to me was the spot late in the Houston - Texas game. Clearly a first down and clearly marked by the side judge, but when spotted for the measurement it’s moved back 2 feet. I thought incompetent was confined to Pac 12 refs. That one, and the uncalled holding/PI on UW the play before ASU threw the pick-6. One thing is for certain, there will always be refs calls that we can complain about.
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