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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 12, 2023 22:57:43 GMT -8
Regarding the rebuild idea, the Mountain West buyout never actually drops to nothing. It’s always 3 times the media payout of the previous year if a team gives a year or more notice. Double if they give less than a year’s notice. It doesn’t expire when the media deal runs out. It remains triple the media payout of the year before so it’s going to be $17 million minimum and may even go up in the future once they get a new deal (assuming the new deal is higher). They’ve really made it difficult for teams to leave. There is no buyouts if they dissolve the conference. No media penalty. No MWC team(s) are going to leave, or be left out. The initial option, the only one that makes sense to all 14 parties is the MWC votes to dissolve to accept a reverse merger into the new Pac14. No buyout, but no media deal unless CBS wants to keep West Coast inventories. Or, Apple is still lurking. Some people worry, but I figure OSU/WSU just have to have at least a basic media plan in their back pockets or it would not behoove anyone to make a reverse merger happen. It'll be interesting to see what it is. |
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Post by clydebeav on Oct 12, 2023 23:01:08 GMT -8
Regarding the rebuild idea, the Mountain West buyout never actually drops to nothing. It’s always 3 times the media payout of the previous year if a team gives a year or more notice. Double if they give less than a year’s notice. It doesn’t expire when the media deal runs out. It remains triple the media payout of the year before so it’s going to be $17 million minimum and may even go up in the future once they get a new deal (assuming the new deal is higher). They’ve really made it difficult for teams to leave. There is no buyouts if they dissolve the conference. No media penalty. No MWC team(s) are going to leave, or be left out. The initial option, the only one that makes sense to all 14 parties is the MWC votes to dissolve to accept a reverse merger into the new Pac14. No buyout, but no media deal unless CBS wants to keep West Coast inventories. Or, Apple is still lurking. Yes. Understood. I was just clarifying that individual teams can’t leave without paying a buyout. I’ve seen others mention waiting 2 years for MW buyouts to go away, but that’s not how the bylaws read. Reverse merger with all MW teams joining is likely the only way to get MW teams for free unless they get 9 votes to dissolve and less than 12 teams join (unlikely). |
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Post by hometownbeaver on Oct 14, 2023 7:18:19 GMT -8
There is no buyouts if they dissolve the conference. No media penalty. No MWC team(s) are going to leave, or be left out. The initial option, the only one that makes sense to all 14 parties is the MWC votes to dissolve to accept a reverse merger into the new Pac14. No buyout, but no media deal unless CBS wants to keep West Coast inventories. Or, Apple is still lurking. Some people worry, but I figure OSU/WSU just have to have at least a basic media plan in their back pockets or it would not behoove anyone to make a reverse merger happen. It'll be interesting to see what it is. If we don't take the whole MWC then we are just pushing off our situation on the next sorry you are too small to matter school. I know it doesn't make the new look pac-12 stronger from a competitive point of view but taking the entire MWC is the gentleman's move here we can sure up an uneven share of the conference funds to off set it but I don't want to leave two teams or three in the MWC feeling like they're not wanted the way we feel. We should be better than the traitorous 10! |
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 14, 2023 10:10:30 GMT -8
Joining the MWC isn't the most ideal situation. That is the worst possible outcome in my opinion. Rebuild or reverse merger are way ahead of that option I'm thinking he's saying the "traitors" want OSU and WSU to just join the WMC so the conference dissolves and they can split the proceeds. Yes, to clarify the TRAITORS want OSU and WSU to agree to dissolve the Pac, suck it up and go join the MWC. OSU/WSU want the MWC to come to the Pac for obvious reasons (playoff spot until 2026 at the minimum being the biggest one). |
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Post by beaver55to7 on Oct 14, 2023 10:19:09 GMT -8
I'm thinking he's saying the "traitors" want OSU and WSU to just join the WMC so the conference dissolves and they can split the proceeds. Yes, to clarify the TRAITORS want OSU and WSU to agree to dissolve the Pac, suck it up and go join the MWC. OSU/WSU want the MWC to come to the Pac for obvious reasons (playoff spot until 2026 at the minimum being the biggest one). No no no, there is no difference in playoff spots whether we remain the the Pac or join the MWC. The 6 highest ranked conference champions get a bid. Whether that conference champion is from the Pac or the MWC DOES NOT MATTER. What matters is being a conference champion and being ranked in the top 6 of the 10 total conference champions. The reverse merger is about holding on to basketball tourney payouts and larger cfp payouts, not auto bids, because there are no autobids. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 14, 2023 10:21:26 GMT -8
Playoff $, full P5 share is the biggest reason. The top 12 (top 6 conference winners if kept... committee can change CFP details, not the payouts) ratings/playoff spot is not guaranteed by the merger.
But, staying a P5 guarantees a full CFP share/payout.
Plus NCAA units will be paid for 6 more years after this summer... assuming multiple MBB & WBB make the tourneys (6 years of staggered units including this season). That is a lot of units that could be pd out.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 14, 2023 15:00:25 GMT -8
Yes, to clarify the TRAITORS want OSU and WSU to agree to dissolve the Pac, suck it up and go join the MWC. OSU/WSU want the MWC to come to the Pac for obvious reasons (playoff spot until 2026 at the minimum being the biggest one). No no no, there is no difference in playoff spots whether we remain the the Pac or join the MWC. The 6 highest ranked conference champions get a bid. Whether that conference champion is from the Pac or the MWC DOES NOT MATTER. What matters is being a conference champion and being ranked in the top 6 of the 10 total conference champions. The reverse merger is about holding on to basketball tourney payouts and larger cfp payouts, not auto bids, because there are no autobids. It isn't so much the playoff spot, guarantee or no guarantee. It's more the Power 5 designation and all that comes with it. Power conferences get more money, period. Drop to just the PAC 2 and that is immediately at risk. Remain a 12-14 PAC and it's likely guaranteed for 2 years, with a great shot at retaining that status into the future. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 16, 2023 13:16:04 GMT -8
No no no, there is no difference in playoff spots whether we remain the the Pac or join the MWC. The 6 highest ranked conference champions get a bid. Whether that conference champion is from the Pac or the MWC DOES NOT MATTER. What matters is being a conference champion and being ranked in the top 6 of the 10 total conference champions. The reverse merger is about holding on to basketball tourney payouts and larger cfp payouts, not auto bids, because there are no autobids. It isn't so much the playoff spot, guarantee or no guarantee. It's more the Power 5 designation and all that comes with it. Power conferences get more money, period. Drop to just the PAC 2 and that is immediately at risk. Remain a 12-14 PAC and it's likely guaranteed for 2 years, with a great shot at retaining that status into the future. Power Five only really matters until the end of the 2025-2026 season. After that point, the money dries up, and we would be required to spend additional money. (Power Five conferences currently are required to spend more money, but they keep a disproportionately large share. After 2025-2026, there is no guaranteed extra money, but the additional spending obligations continue. After June of 2026, no one is going to want to be Power Five, unless there is a new revenue source.) I am curious, if the other Power Four conferences keep a reformed Pac-X around as a tiebreak or whether they will just get rid of the Pac-X. Absent something weird, the Power Four has the votes to basically do what they want. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 16, 2023 13:50:41 GMT -8
It isn't so much the playoff spot, guarantee or no guarantee. It's more the Power 5 designation and all that comes with it. Power conferences get more money, period. Drop to just the PAC 2 and that is immediately at risk. Remain a 12-14 PAC and it's likely guaranteed for 2 years, with a great shot at retaining that status into the future. Power Five only really matters until the end of the 2025-2026 season. After that point, the money dries up, and we would be required to spend additional money. (Power Five conferences currently are required to spend more money, but they keep a disproportionately large share. After 2025-2026, there is no guaranteed extra money, but the additional spending obligations continue. After June of 2026, no one is going to want to be Power Five, unless there is a new revenue source.) I am curious, if the other Power Four conferences keep a reformed Pac-X around as a tiebreak or whether they will just get rid of the Pac-X. Absent something weird, the Power Four has the votes to basically do what they want. Are you assuming there is no Power 5, but there is a Power 4 after 2026? I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the current bylaws that that is the case. From what I understand, this whole 2 year idea is based off a combination of the original Playoff contract lasting through 2025 and the 2 year window conferences have to rebuild. I'm not so sure the P5 designation in the bylaws has an expiration date on its own. Changing the bylaws is by unanimous consent from what I understand. I could see that changing, but I can't see the "P4" outvoting the G6 (assuming the Pac and MWC merge into a single "G6" conference) to change the bylaws unless they offer some very tempting concessions to the G6 conferences to do so. Assuming what you say about "no one is going to want to be P5" is true, and it could be, that still wouldn't change the fact that 4 likely doesn't outvote 6. I'm predicting a lot of negotiation on how NCAA money is distributed in a couple years. Right now the P5 gets the lions share, and if the Pac is no longer a P5 conference, the remaining P4 conferences will have a somewhat lesser share of the voting power than they currently have. I do see if it's all about TV contracts with individual conferences, the P4 will be at an advantage, but if it comes down to "their share" of NCAA distributions, that may not be the case - and that in itself might have them more interested in maintaining the P5 status quo over trying to make a P4 power grab to drop the Pac of its status. Interesting times ahead, there's likely to be changes. I'm not so sure dropping from P5 to just P4 is one of those changes. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Oct 16, 2023 15:26:24 GMT -8
Power Five only really matters until the end of the 2025-2026 season. After that point, the money dries up, and we would be required to spend additional money. (Power Five conferences currently are required to spend more money, but they keep a disproportionately large share. After 2025-2026, there is no guaranteed extra money, but the additional spending obligations continue. After June of 2026, no one is going to want to be Power Five, unless there is a new revenue source.) I am curious, if the other Power Four conferences keep a reformed Pac-X around as a tiebreak or whether they will just get rid of the Pac-X. Absent something weird, the Power Four has the votes to basically do what they want. Are you assuming there is no Power 5, but there is a Power 4 after 2026? I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the current bylaws that that is the case. From what I understand, this whole 2 year idea is based off a combination of the original Playoff contract lasting through 2025 and the 2 year window conferences have to rebuild. I'm not so sure the P5 designation in the bylaws has an expiration date on its own. Changing the bylaws is by unanimous consent from what I understand. I could see that changing, but I can't see the "P4" outvoting the G6 (assuming the Pac and MWC merge into a single "G6" conference) to change the bylaws unless they offer some very tempting concessions to the G6 conferences to do so. Assuming what you say about "no one is going to want to be P5" is true, and it could be, that still wouldn't change the fact that 4 likely doesn't outvote 6. I'm predicting a lot of negotiation on how NCAA money is distributed in a couple years. Right now the P5 gets the lions share, and if the Pac is no longer a P5 conference, the remaining P4 conferences will have a somewhat lesser share of the voting power than they currently have. I do see if it's all about TV contracts with individual conferences, the P4 will be at an advantage, but if it comes down to "their share" of NCAA distributions, that may not be the case - and that in itself might have them more interested in maintaining the P5 status quo over trying to make a P4 power grab to drop the Pac of its status. Interesting times ahead, there's likely to be changes. I'm not so sure dropping from P5 to just P4 is one of those changes. In employment law, there are certain rights that you cannot waive. But you can separately contract that, by exercising your right, you would void all other agreements and be liable for damages. You haven't technically waived your right. But, if you try and exercise your right, you will probably wind up worse off financially than if you just had waived your right in the first place. This is kind of the same idea. There is no expiration on "Power Five," but the money will not be there after 2025. And the liabilities will continue, if you want to continue on as a "Power Five" Conference, namely providing more non-scholarship money to all student athletes to offset other costs. Group of Five make less money under the contract, but they do not have to provide dollar one to all student athletes. You don't vote by conferences. You vote by universities. With expansion, there are 70 universities in Power Four Conferences and 63 in the Group of 5/6. The Power Four do not need any additional universities to have a voting majority. The only reason that I can see the other four allowing the Pac-X to remain as the fifth Power Five Conference is to serve as a tiebreaker, in case the four Power Four conferences deadlock on something and they do not want to bring in all universities to break the deadlock. Whether the Power Four call themselves the Power Four or the superhypermegaglobal best friends' club is really irrelevant to the point. Unless the Power Four need the Pac-X to serve as a tiebreaker, there is really no power in the Power Five after a national champion is crowned in 2026, just liabilities. |
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