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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 6, 2023 23:02:45 GMT -8
Logic. Why would they do that? Takes away the only leverage they have for a possible merger. Would be stupid on their part Having Oregon State and Wazzu on the schedule for a couple of years, say 8 games each for 2 years, that's a lot of extra views and attention. The Mountain West teams love when they get to play Pac 12 teams. Supposedly OSU and WSU literally already tried to poach a few teams from the MWC (everyone knows about SDSU, others were rumored) and they couldn't get the votes to dissolve the conference. The MWC has made it clear they come as a group. Why on earth would any of the other schools there give OSU and WSU the time of day for 2 years just to be left out in the cold in '26? A reverse merger means a lot to that whole league. |
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Post by sparty on Oct 7, 2023 6:04:12 GMT -8
Having Oregon State and Wazzu on the schedule for a couple of years, say 8 games each for 2 years, that's a lot of extra views and attention. The Mountain West teams love when they get to play Pac 12 teams. Supposedly OSU and WSU literally already tried to poach a few teams from the MWC (everyone knows about SDSU, others were rumored) and they couldn't get the votes to dissolve the conference. The MWC has made it clear they come as a group. Why on earth would any of the other schools there give OSU and WSU the time of day for 2 years just to be left out in the cold in '26? A reverse merger means a lot to that whole league. I agree with you. The other things posted are interesting takes. Funny people are talking about "poaching" the MWC and picking the schools they want. Why the need to gut the MWC?
What is the criteria to decide who get's left behind in the MWC and who gets to move into a new conference? What would be impressive in todays sports world is having the MWC stick together from top to bottom unified as a group. I believe their commissioner is strong enough to do it. |
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Post by p8nted on Oct 7, 2023 8:49:00 GMT -8
Logic. Why would they do that? Takes away the only leverage they have for a possible merger. Would be stupid on their part Having Oregon State and Wazzu on the schedule for a couple of years, say 8 games each for 2 years, that's a lot of extra views and attention. The Mountain West teams love when they get to play Pac 12 teams. On what TV network? Under What TV deal is it extra views? very doubtful it generates any real buzz |
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Post by p8nted on Oct 7, 2023 8:50:46 GMT -8
Supposedly OSU and WSU literally already tried to poach a few teams from the MWC (everyone knows about SDSU, others were rumored) and they couldn't get the votes to dissolve the conference. The MWC has made it clear they come as a group. Why on earth would any of the other schools there give OSU and WSU the time of day for 2 years just to be left out in the cold in '26? A reverse merger means a lot to that whole league. I agree with you. The other things posted are interesting takes. Funny people are talking about "poaching" the MWC and picking the schools they want. Why the need to gut the MWC?
What is the criteria to decide who get's left behind in the MWC and who gets to move into a new conference? What would be impressive in today's sports world is having the MWC stick together from top to bottom unified as a group. I believe their commissioner is strong enough to do it. I don't see any poaching occurring either. What was the criteria on who was left behind in the PAC? MWC stuck together to avoid a Big East Raid in the past, and unlike the PAC 2, Big East had a TV deal to offer. MWC lost Utah, TCU, and BYU recently, but to P5 conferences offering significantly more money. Well, BYU went indy due to pride over Utah leaving. MWC commish used to work for the PAC. We screwed up not promoting her |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Oct 7, 2023 8:56:15 GMT -8
I really hope all the sketch comes out in the courts. USC absolutely cratered the conference, along with the TV execs.
When this gets sorted out, we better have a place at the table
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Post by grayman on Oct 7, 2023 9:45:59 GMT -8
I agree with you. The other things posted are interesting takes. Funny people are talking about "poaching" the MWC and picking the schools they want. Why the need to gut the MWC?
What is the criteria to decide who get's left behind in the MWC and who gets to move into a new conference? What would be impressive in today's sports world is having the MWC stick together from top to bottom unified as a group. I believe their commissioner is strong enough to do it. I don't see any poaching occurring either. What was the criteria on who was left behind in the PAC? MWC stuck together to avoid a Big East Raid in the past, and unlike the PAC 2, Big East had a TV deal to offer. MWC lost Utah, TCU, and BYU recently, but to P5 conferences offering significantly more money. Well, BYU went indy due to pride over Utah leaving. MWC commish used to work for the PAC. We screwed up not promoting her If OSU and WSU already tried to poach some teams from the MWC (which I'm not sure about, thought that was the then-Pac-10), then questions about why the Pac-2 would try to do so should be answered. It's basically the same reasons that the Big Ten poached USC, UCLA and then UW and UO. You want to add the best programs you can to build up a conference. In the Pac-2's case, it's to rebuild an entire conference. IMO, adding OSU and WSU to the MWC and renaming it the Pac-12 doesn't make it a rebuilt conference. It's just the MWC with OSU and WSU. And that's how the rest of the country will view it. It should only be an option (most likely the only option) if the Pac-2 do not win the legal battle. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 7, 2023 11:00:28 GMT -8
I don't see any poaching occurring either. What was the criteria on who was left behind in the PAC? MWC stuck together to avoid a Big East Raid in the past, and unlike the PAC 2, Big East had a TV deal to offer. MWC lost Utah, TCU, and BYU recently, but to P5 conferences offering significantly more money. Well, BYU went indy due to pride over Utah leaving. MWC commish used to work for the PAC. We screwed up not promoting her If OSU and WSU already tried to poach some teams from the MWC (which I'm not sure about, thought that was the then-Pac-10), then questions about why the Pac-2 would try to do so should be answered. It's basically the same reasons that the Big Ten poached USC, UCLA and then UW and UO. You want to add the best programs you can to build up a conference. In the Pac-2's case, it's to rebuild an entire conference. IMO, adding OSU and WSU to the MWC and renaming it the Pac-12 doesn't make it a rebuilt conference. It's just the MWC with OSU and WSU. And that's how the rest of the country will view it. It should only be an option (most likely the only option) if the Pac-2 do not win the legal battle. WRONG. Adding OSU and WSU to the MWC keeps the same media partner. They may renegotiate a bit, but I don't expect a huge change. It also keeps the MWC history. Doing a reverse merger keeps the Pac 8/10/12 history intact and sets off a whole new round of media partner possibilities, and between a new media partner and existing NCAA and Bowl obligations, there will be more money involved. There is HUGE value in the PAC brand compared to the MWC brand. In your mind it might just be the MWC with 2 new schools added, and there might be others who feel the same, but in reality whomever gets the media contract is going to push the "new and rebuilt" PAC on all their broadcasts and promos... and that will become the new reality over time. It may take a couple/few years, but in general the public's memories are relatively short. I clearly remember the Pac 8, there are some here who are old enough to remember the Pacific Coast Conference. Is today's Pac 12 just the Pacific Coast Conference with a few extra teams? I it just the Pac 10 with 2 extra teams? IF the new PAC Whatever retains P5 status, those memories will be very short. With every BSU/Fresno/SDSU/other former MWC team win or close game against a P4 team in OOC or Bowl play, the thought that it's not the PAC will erode. There's a difference. |
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Post by grayman on Oct 7, 2023 11:23:54 GMT -8
If OSU and WSU already tried to poach some teams from the MWC (which I'm not sure about, thought that was the then-Pac-10), then questions about why the Pac-2 would try to do so should be answered. It's basically the same reasons that the Big Ten poached USC, UCLA and then UW and UO. You want to add the best programs you can to build up a conference. In the Pac-2's case, it's to rebuild an entire conference. IMO, adding OSU and WSU to the MWC and renaming it the Pac-12 doesn't make it a rebuilt conference. It's just the MWC with OSU and WSU. And that's how the rest of the country will view it. It should only be an option (most likely the only option) if the Pac-2 do not win the legal battle. WRONG. Adding OSU and WSU to the MWC keeps the same media partner. They may renegotiate a bit, but I don't expect a huge change. It also keeps the MWC history. Doing a reverse merger keeps the Pac 8/10/12 history intact and sets off a whole new round of media partner possibilities, and between a new media partner and existing NCAA and Bowl obligations, there will be more money involved. There is HUGE value in the PAC brand compared to the MWC brand. In your mind it might just be the MWC with 2 new schools added, and there might be others who feel the same, but in reality whomever gets the media contract is going to push the "new and rebuilt" PAC on all their broadcasts and promos... and that will become the new reality over time. It may take a couple/few years, but in general the public's memories are relatively short. I clearly remember the Pac 8, there are some here who are old enough to remember the Pacific Coast Conference. Is today's Pac 12 just the Pacific Coast Conference with a few extra teams? I it just the Pac 10 with 2 extra teams? IF the new PAC Whatever retains P5 status, those memories will be very short. With every BSU/Fresno/SDSU/other former MWC team win or close game against a P4 team in OOC or Bowl play, the thought that it's not the PAC will erode. There's a difference. WRONG? LOL. In your opinion. You and others on this board keep pushing the MWC merger as if you don't see or really understand what is happening in the college football landscape and why. I can't convince you or others that most of the country will probably at best ignore or at worst look down upon a Pac-2/MWC conference. But why is the MWC a group of 5 conference and not a power conference? Why are OSU and WSU the Pac-2 instead of two schools heading to a power conference like the rest of the Pac-12 schools? It will be an entirely new conference no matter how you want to see it. Yes, the Pac title has some more value than the MWC's. But it was built through years of being a power conference. IMO, it's clear logic that will dictate how a new Pac is viewed. Not wishful thinking. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 7, 2023 12:16:33 GMT -8
WRONG. Adding OSU and WSU to the MWC keeps the same media partner. They may renegotiate a bit, but I don't expect a huge change. It also keeps the MWC history. Doing a reverse merger keeps the Pac 8/10/12 history intact and sets off a whole new round of media partner possibilities, and between a new media partner and existing NCAA and Bowl obligations, there will be more money involved. There is HUGE value in the PAC brand compared to the MWC brand. In your mind it might just be the MWC with 2 new schools added, and there might be others who feel the same, but in reality whomever gets the media contract is going to push the "new and rebuilt" PAC on all their broadcasts and promos... and that will become the new reality over time. It may take a couple/few years, but in general the public's memories are relatively short. I clearly remember the Pac 8, there are some here who are old enough to remember the Pacific Coast Conference. Is today's Pac 12 just the Pacific Coast Conference with a few extra teams? I it just the Pac 10 with 2 extra teams? IF the new PAC Whatever retains P5 status, those memories will be very short. With every BSU/Fresno/SDSU/other former MWC team win or close game against a P4 team in OOC or Bowl play, the thought that it's not the PAC will erode. There's a difference. WRONG? LOL. In your opinion. You and others on this board keep pushing the MWC merger as if you don't see or really understand what is happening in the college football landscape and why. I can't convince you or others that most of the country will probably at best ignore or at worst look down upon a Pac-2/MWC conference. But why is the MWC a group of 5 conference and not a power conference? Why are OSU and WSU the Pac-2 instead of two schools heading to a power conference like the rest of the Pac-12 schools? It will be an entirely new conference no matter how you want to see it. Yes, the Pac title has some more value than the MWC's. But it was built through years of being a power conference. IMO, it's clear logic that will dictate how a new Pac is viewed. Not wishful thinking. And... it's your logic/opinion. You have no clue the future reality. Lol... Wishful thinking... one that goes against known & repeated statements and counting on the future being different to those because it fits their narrative? Or the known reality of two entities that have actually had conversations? Face it... it's all opinion on what will happen and what is best. |
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Post by grayman on Oct 7, 2023 12:49:58 GMT -8
WRONG? LOL. In your opinion. You and others on this board keep pushing the MWC merger as if you don't see or really understand what is happening in the college football landscape and why. I can't convince you or others that most of the country will probably at best ignore or at worst look down upon a Pac-2/MWC conference. But why is the MWC a group of 5 conference and not a power conference? Why are OSU and WSU the Pac-2 instead of two schools heading to a power conference like the rest of the Pac-12 schools? It will be an entirely new conference no matter how you want to see it. Yes, the Pac title has some more value than the MWC's. But it was built through years of being a power conference. IMO, it's clear logic that will dictate how a new Pac is viewed. Not wishful thinking. And... it's your logic/opinion. You have no clue the future reality. Lol... Wishful thinking... one that goes against known & repeated statements and counting on the future being different to those because it fits their narrative? Or the known reality of two entities that have actually had conversations? Face it... it's all opinion on what will happen and what is best. Yes, it's my logic/opinion and I don't know what OSU's future holds. Neither do you. Yes, wishful thinking that IMO comes along with the belief/hope that a Pac-2/MWC merger will be great and won't change much of anything for OSU and WSU. You're the one clinging to one statement by Yormark as if it's the be-all, end-all, one that could be taken in more than one way. We'll see. And yeah, OSU and WSU have had some sort of conversation with the MWC. It doesn't mean much one way or the other. OSU and WSU are just doing their due diligence. It would be stupid for them to do otherwise. |
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 7, 2023 12:54:35 GMT -8
And... it's your logic/opinion. You have no clue the future reality. Lol... Wishful thinking... one that goes against known & repeated statements and counting on the future being different to those because it fits their narrative? Or the known reality of two entities that have actually had conversations? Face it... it's all opinion on what will happen and what is best. Yes, it's my logic/opinion and I don't know what OSU's future holds. Neither do you. Yes, wishful thinking that IMO comes along with the belief/hope that a Pac-2/MWC merger will be great and won't change much of anything for OSU and WSU. You're the one clinging to one statement by Yormark as if it's the be-all, end-all, one that could be taken in more than one way. We'll see. And yeah, OSU and WSU have had some sort of conversation with the MWC. It doesn't mean much one way or the other. OSU and WSU are just doing their due diligence. It would be stupid for them to do otherwise. No "clinging" involved... and it's been the commish on multiple occasions + school Admins. B12 not happening in time for '24 scheduling. Waiting for it and not prepping for multiple years in the future is the wrong move. Creating a solid foundation with the merge and having OSU have success is the strongest statement for future leverage. |
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Post by grayman on Oct 7, 2023 12:56:33 GMT -8
I'm not going to get in some back and forth with you. We disagree. That's where it stands.
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 7, 2023 13:00:44 GMT -8
I'm not going to get in some back and forth with you. We disagree. That's where it stands. And... there's lots of "wishful thinking" to go around. Like... JFC can I keep drinking here in Berkeley and still make it up the hill by 7pm?? |
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Post by p8nted on Oct 7, 2023 13:18:44 GMT -8
If OSU and WSU already tried to poach some teams from the MWC (which I'm not sure about, thought that was the then-Pac-10), then questions about why the Pac-2 would try to do so should be answered. It's basically the same reasons that the Big Ten poached USC, UCLA and then UW and UO. You want to add the best programs you can to build up a conference. In the Pac-2's case, it's to rebuild an entire conference. IMO, adding OSU and WSU to the MWC and renaming it the Pac-12 doesn't make it a rebuilt conference. It's just the MWC with OSU and WSU. And that's how the rest of the country will view it. It should only be an option (most likely the only option) if the Pac-2 do not win the legal battle. WRONG. Adding OSU and WSU to the MWC keeps the same media partner. They may renegotiate a bit, but I don't expect a huge change. It also keeps the MWC history. Doing a reverse merger keeps the Pac 8/10/12 history intact and sets off a whole new round of media partner possibilities, and between a new media partner and existing NCAA and Bowl obligations, there will be more money involved. There is HUGE value in the PAC brand compared to the MWC brand. In your mind it might just be the MWC with 2 new schools added, and there might be others who feel the same, but in reality whomever gets the media contract is going to push the "new and rebuilt" PAC on all their broadcasts and promos... and that will become the new reality over time. It may take a couple/few years, but in general the public's memories are relatively short. I clearly remember the Pac 8, there are some here who are old enough to remember the Pacific Coast Conference. Is today's Pac 12 just the Pacific Coast Conference with a few extra teams? I it just the Pac 10 with 2 extra teams? IF the new PAC Whatever retains P5 status, those memories will be very short. With every BSU/Fresno/SDSU/other former MWC team win or close game against a P4 team in OOC or Bowl play, the thought that it's not the PAC will erode. There's a difference. I agree. The existing MWC will fold in under the PAC name for many of the reasons you mention. Unless there is a Big 12 invite coming out of nowhere. I think a lottery ticket is a better bet than the Big 12 thing at this point. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 7, 2023 13:40:02 GMT -8
WRONG. Adding OSU and WSU to the MWC keeps the same media partner. They may renegotiate a bit, but I don't expect a huge change. It also keeps the MWC history. Doing a reverse merger keeps the Pac 8/10/12 history intact and sets off a whole new round of media partner possibilities, and between a new media partner and existing NCAA and Bowl obligations, there will be more money involved. There is HUGE value in the PAC brand compared to the MWC brand. In your mind it might just be the MWC with 2 new schools added, and there might be others who feel the same, but in reality whomever gets the media contract is going to push the "new and rebuilt" PAC on all their broadcasts and promos... and that will become the new reality over time. It may take a couple/few years, but in general the public's memories are relatively short. I clearly remember the Pac 8, there are some here who are old enough to remember the Pacific Coast Conference. Is today's Pac 12 just the Pacific Coast Conference with a few extra teams? I it just the Pac 10 with 2 extra teams? IF the new PAC Whatever retains P5 status, those memories will be very short. With every BSU/Fresno/SDSU/other former MWC team win or close game against a P4 team in OOC or Bowl play, the thought that it's not the PAC will erode. There's a difference. WRONG? LOL. In your opinion. You and others on this board keep pushing the MWC merger as if you don't see or really understand what is happening in the college football landscape and why. I can't convince you or others that most of the country will probably at best ignore or at worst look down upon a Pac-2/MWC conference. But why is the MWC a group of 5 conference and not a power conference? Why are OSU and WSU the Pac-2 instead of two schools heading to a power conference like the rest of the Pac-12 schools? It will be an entirely new conference no matter how you want to see it. Yes, the Pac title has some more value than the MWC's. But it was built through years of being a power conference. IMO, it's clear logic that will dictate how a new Pac is viewed. Not wishful thinking. I'll admit I was heavy handed by using "WRONG", it's just that I find your "logic" off base. "I reject your reality, and replace it with that of my own" is probably the appropriate phrase, and we're both using it. The actual reality is that currently, next year's BIG 12 has only 1 ranked team. Next year's proposed Pac 12 has 3. You have no idea if most of the country will have the same opinion as you, nor do I know if most of the country will have the same opinion as mine. You seem to be using your opinion as default fact, the only fact I know for sure is that opinions are malleable, especially over time and a little marketing. According to reports, the powers that be already met a few weeks back and decided to do nothing as far as changing P5 status of the Pac if it comes back as a full conference next season. At which point it could be tough to get rid of that status in 2026. You seem to be saying P5 status is gone. There are currently 11 FBS conferences, 5 of which are given P5 status. It's been that P5 status has been kind of regional. Lately, due to reorganization, that might be challenged. I see no reason to purposely make it so that no P5 conferences exist west of the Mississippi. I don't think the powers that be are in a hurry to remove the Pac's Power 5 status if it remains a full sized conference. Gonna be an interesting year ahead. |
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