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Post by fridaynightlights on Aug 14, 2023 11:29:43 GMT -8
This from ESPN:
What is the impact on the Stanford dynasty?
Voepel: Stanford is the giant of all West Coast women's hoops. (Same in women's volleyball, as the Cardinal have nine NCAA titles.) With its ultra-elite academics and history of success, it seems like Stanford can keep being "Stanford" in women's sports, regardless of conference. What about VanDerveer? She is college women's basketball's winningest coach with 1,186 victories, 1,034 of them at Stanford. She turned 70 in June, and has been Pac-12 women's hoops' greatest ambassador. Does she want to adjust to a new league at this point?
If Stanford goes to the Big Ten, that would be a historical return for her, as VanDerveer played for Indiana in the 1970s and coached Ohio State in the 1980s before beginning her Stanford reign. But travel will be more challenging if Stanford joins a league like the Big Ten, something VanDerveer might not want to deal with at this point in her life after a career in which she's already won everything there is to win.
Philippou: We won't be able to fully predict the impact on Stanford until, presumably, the school lands in a new conference (there'd be a huge difference between, say, the Big Ten, a new-look Pac-12 and the Mountain West). But this moment of conference realignment comes at an already pivotal time for the women's basketball program. VanDerveer is nearing the end of her career. This past season was one to forget for the Cardinal, who bowed out of the Pac-12 tournament -- an event it has historically dominated -- in the semifinals and in March fell in the second round of the NCAA tournament, failing to advance to the regionals for the first time in 15 years. They also had three players enter the transfer portal in the offseason -- most shockingly former No. 1 overall recruit Lauren Betts -- and lost Haley Jones to the WNBA. Not to be lost, the entire athletic department is viewed as being behind on the times when it comes to adapting to the NIL and transfer portal eras.
VanDerveer is still bringing in top prospects, and the program will always boast a strong women's basketball tradition no matter which conference it plays in moving forward. The Cardinal also haven't been ones to shy away from building challenging nonconference schedules. But there remain many unanswered questions for this historic program moving forward, relating to conference realignment and beyond it.
What is next for Cal, Oregon State and Washington State?
Voepel: In the past decade, the Bears (2013) and Beavers (2016) advanced to the Final Four. Oregon State under coach Scott Rueck developed a national presence for the first time and made the rivalry with Oregon into a matchup that got a national spotlight. The Beavers have missed the NCAA tournament the past two years, but Rueck has dramatically improved the program.
Dramatic improvement is also what coach Kamie Ethridge has done at Washington State, which traditionally was one of the worst major conference programs in women's basketball before she took over. She led the Cougars to the NCAA tournament the past three seasons after just one previous appearance (1991) and their first Pac-12 tournament title this year. You hope the progress the Beavers and Cougars have made can continue wherever they land.
Philippou: Cal has languished the last few years although it does have a precedent for success: Under Lindsay Gottlieb, who now runs the show at USC following a stint in the NBA, the Golden Bears played in the 2013 Final Four and were regulars in the NCAA tournament from about 2005 to 2019. They've struggled to find their footing under Charmin Smith, who took over ahead of the 2019-20 campaign.
Without robust payouts that come from a lucrative media deal, the reality for the Pac-12 (er, Pac-4) is that the ensuing steep drop in revenue will hurt all sports, and perhaps especially women's sports and Olympic sports. It wouldn't be shocking if women's basketball programs at the likes of Cal, Oregon State and Washington State face an uphill battle moving forward.
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Post by newduke2 on Aug 21, 2023 14:03:04 GMT -8
"Oregon State face(s) an uphill battle moving forward" is putting it mildly. Unless OSU can somehow join the Big-12 or ACC, it's screwed.
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 21, 2023 14:18:33 GMT -8
OSU WBB hoops faced an uphill battle in the Pac12. Getting to ranked classes doesn't guarantee a thing. Not development/contributions or loyalty/not transferring.
SR's teams will always be well coached and make the school proud. The NIL has made the days of schools like OSU being E8 or F4 bound a rarity.
OSU WBB will be fine.
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Post by 02beav on Aug 21, 2023 23:04:13 GMT -8
OSU WBB hoops faced an uphill battle in the Pac12. Getting to ranked classes doesn't guarantee a thing. Not development/contributions or loyalty/not transferring. SR's teams will always be well coached and make the school proud. The NIL has made the days of schools like OSU being E8 or F4 bound a rarity. OSU WBB will be fine. How has NIL impacted our women's basketball program at this point? Our recruiting classes have been pretty impressive, the girls that transferred didn't leave for NIL opportunities. The PAC 12 women's game hasn't exactly seen a bunch of girls coming or going for NIL opportunities. I agree, OSU will be fine but it's hard to imagine a scenario where they'll be able to recruit McDonald's all Americans going forward or elite national talent. Unless we get somehow find our way into a high quality league. |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 21, 2023 23:31:29 GMT -8
OSU WBB hoops faced an uphill battle in the Pac12. Getting to ranked classes doesn't guarantee a thing. Not development/contributions or loyalty/not transferring. SR's teams will always be well coached and make the school proud. The NIL has made the days of schools like OSU being E8 or F4 bound a rarity. OSU WBB will be fine. How has NIL impacted our women's basketball program at this point? Our recruiting classes have been pretty impressive, the girls that transferred didn't leave for NIL opportunities. The PAC 12 women's game hasn't exactly seen a bunch of girls coming or going for NIL opportunities. I agree, OSU will be fine but it's hard to imagine a scenario where they'll be able to recruit McDonald's all Americans going forward or elite national talent. Unless we get somehow find our way into a high quality league. Hmmmm you don't think other schools with large NIL $ for WBB will affect OSU? NIL will become more and more of a factor in women's athletics. Being in a "high quality" league doesn't guarantee you better recruits, a solid program does. It will guarantee competing against bigger $ for recruits. On SR's F4 team how many McD's AA were there? And, at the time of recruitment truly "elite" recruits? How many in the last two teams... 8th, T10th? Don't confuse success with recruiting AA there's only about a dozen to go around. As far as "elite", that's a bunch of recruiting sites that never see kids play paying a ton of attention to which teams are recruiting them. There are plenty of talented players that can be developed to a coaches system that aren't considered "elite" by those sites. OSU will be fine wherever it lands. They may have to win the conference to go dancing vs being a 5th, 6th, or 7th place team, but so be it. |
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Post by fridaynightlights on Aug 22, 2023 1:18:44 GMT -8
OSU can still be a really good program in a lesser conference. I do think it will make it harder to compete on a national stage consistently.
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Post by messi on Aug 22, 2023 6:28:49 GMT -8
Looking at the latest NCAA tournament:
Big 12 - 6 bids, 1 host
AAC - 2 bids, 0 host
MW - 1 bid, 0 host
Unless somehow OSU ends up in the Big 12 or Stanford is in the same conference wherever the Beavs land, the Beavers will really need to be the biggest fish in the smaller pond, and winning the conference tournament will be paramount. And even then, its likely the Beavers are on the road to start the NCAA tournament.
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 22, 2023 10:10:46 GMT -8
Looking at the latest NCAA tournament: Big 12 - 6 bids, 1 host AAC - 2 bids, 0 host MW - 1 bid, 0 host Unless somehow OSU ends up in the Big 12 or Stanford is in the same conference wherever the Beavs land, the Beavers will really need to be the biggest fish in the smaller pond, and winning the conference tournament will be paramount. And even then, its likely the Beavers are on the road to start the NCAA tournament. The Beavers have been on the road every NCAA. No one knows what will happen... conference or program wise. But, even though I think SR has shown some limitations OSU will always have a successful program with him at the helm. Some may measure "success" different than I do. If NCAA tournament berths as one of multiple teams because you're in a power conference is one measure, cool. It's not mine. Scott will continue to attract quality talent and people... and he will win. He'll win games and he'll develop solid players and young women no matter the conference OSU is eventually part of. The bigger attribute of SR and staff is that they will not cry over spilled milk. They will adapt, grow, and move forward. And, the program will be in the postseason more than it's not. And, the same applies to MC and the baseball program... you find ways to move forward. The Pac12 as it stands today is no more. As for WT and the MBB program... if he can somehow win 8 (?) Pac12 games, 15+ overall he will keep his job due to budget constraints. OSU might actually have to make a move somehow if he fails. The move away from the Pac12 might actually revitalize his career here?? But, eventually OSU will have to find a coach/salary more in line with a smaller conference. The economics is going to hurt in maintaining staff and in landing talent. But, folks act as if landing in a P4 with partial revenue share won't mean the same thing. The point is... OSU will have far less money after the 23-24 season and will have to move forward and find solutions. And, it will... and we'll have folks here that truly want to be here. Again, my personal belief, but I'd rather be in OSU's position than be one of the bottom tier teams in the B10, SEC, B12 getting their arses handed to them every week to collect a paycheck under the guise we're someday going to compete with tOSU, UM, Georgia, Bama, etc. Using football as it is the revenue sport... if you feel bad: B10 for the 2010 thru 2022 seasons: (some teams didn't join the B10 until after 2010) Rutgers 30-68 / 12-61 Maryland 43-57 / 21-49 Illinois 62-101 / 29-73 Other teams games under .500 in B10 play: Indiana (-54), Purdue (-30), Minny (-12), Northwestern (-14), Nebraska (-10, late add to B10) all losing B10 records. Not until Iowa at #6 the last decade do you find a winning B10 record. SEC... Vandy (-48), Arkansas (-32), Kentucky (-28), UT (-24), Ole Miss (-24), Missouri (-8... late SEC add), Miss St (-6) , Texas A&M (-0... late add to SEC). B12... Kansas (-87), Iowa St (-33), Texas Tech (-31), W.Virginia (-4), Texas (+4) B12 is the only conference where OSU could actually "fit" in and not be an also ran every year. But, that invite isn't coming so I'd still rather adapt to being big fish in smaller pond than cashing a check for mediocrity or worse. OSU simply will need to revamp it's NC scheduling to get games vs top tier competition... until we beat too many and they stop giving us games! |
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Post by beavfan14 on Aug 22, 2023 10:35:04 GMT -8
Looking at the latest NCAA tournament: Big 12 - 6 bids, 1 host AAC - 2 bids, 0 host MW - 1 bid, 0 host Unless somehow OSU ends up in the Big 12 or Stanford is in the same conference wherever the Beavs land, the Beavers will really need to be the biggest fish in the smaller pond, and winning the conference tournament will be paramount. And even then, its likely the Beavers are on the road to start the NCAA tournament. The Beavers have been on the road every NCAA. No one knows what will happen... conference or program wise. But, even though I think SR has shown some limitations OSU will always have a successful program with him at the helm. Some may measure "success" different than I do. If NCAA tournament berths as one of multiple teams because you're in a power conference is one measure, cool. It's not mine. Scott will continue to attract quality talent and people... and he will win. He'll win games and he'll develop solid players and young women no matter the conference OSU is eventually part of. The bigger attribute of SR and staff is that they will not cry over spilled milk. They will adapt, grow, and move forward. And, the program will be in the postseason more than it's not. And, the same applies to MC and the baseball program... you find ways to move forward. The Pac12 as it stands today is no more. As for WT and the MBB program... if he can somehow win 8 (?) Pac12 games, 15+ overall he will keep his job due to budget constraints. OSU might actually have to make a move somehow if he fails. The move away from the Pac12 might actually revitalize his career here?? But, eventually OSU will have to find a coach/salary more in line with a smaller conference. The economics is going to hurt in maintaining staff and in landing talent. But, folks act as if landing in a P4 with partial revenue share won't mean the same thing. The point is... OSU will have far less money after the 23-24 season and will have to move forward and find solutions. And, it will... and we'll have folks here that truly want to be here. Again, my personal belief, but I'd rather be in OSU's position than be one of the bottom tier teams in the B10, SEC, B12 getting their arses handed to them every week to collect a paycheck under the guise we're someday going to compete with tOSU, UM, Georgia, Bama, etc. Using football as it is the revenue sport... if you feel bad: B10 for the 2010 thru 2022 seasons: (some teams didn't join the B10 until after 2010) Rutgers 30-68 / 12-61 Maryland 43-57 / 21-49 Illinois 62-101 / 29-73 Other teams games under .500 in B10 play: Indiana (-54), Purdue (-30), Minny (-12), Northwestern (-14), Nebraska (-10, late add to B10) all losing B10 records. Not until Iowa at #6 the last decade do you find a winning B10 record. SEC... Vandy (-48), Arkansas (-32), Kentucky (-28), UT (-24), Ole Miss (-24), Missouri (-8... late SEC add), Miss St (-6) , Texas A&M (-0... late add to SEC). B12... Kansas (-87), Iowa St (-33), Texas Tech (-31), W.Virginia (-4), Texas (+4) B12 is the only conference where OSU could actually "fit" in and not be an also ran every year. But, that invite isn't coming so I'd still rather adapt to being big fish in smaller pond than cashing a check for mediocrity or worse. OSU simply will need to revamp it's NC scheduling to get games vs top tier competition... until we beat too many and they stop giving us games! We have not been on the road every NCAA tourney. What he is referring to is the first two rounds which are hosted by selected teams. We have hosted the first two rounds quite a few times. However It will be harder to have the necessary RPI to host those rounds if we are in a lower conference, so we may have to go on the road for the entire tourney from now on. I still think we have a good name out there and will do better then some think we will, but it will definitely be harder. But i do agree with you, even though it's not a great situation right now until we can find our conference solution, I think we may be ok in the long run. But no matter what, I'm not sure how well Oregon Washington USC and UCLA will do in the BIG10 year in and year out. We may be better then some people think we will be compared to the pac12 schools that left. They'll have bigger budgets of course, but if can get into the bottom floor of a streaming service and grow with it, who knows? Give it a couple of years and maybe we'll be in the better situation. |
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Post by rgeorge on Aug 22, 2023 11:45:14 GMT -8
The Beavers have been on the road every NCAA. No one knows what will happen... conference or program wise. But, even though I think SR has shown some limitations OSU will always have a successful program with him at the helm. Some may measure "success" different than I do. If NCAA tournament berths as one of multiple teams because you're in a power conference is one measure, cool. It's not mine. Scott will continue to attract quality talent and people... and he will win. He'll win games and he'll develop solid players and young women no matter the conference OSU is eventually part of. The bigger attribute of SR and staff is that they will not cry over spilled milk. They will adapt, grow, and move forward. And, the program will be in the postseason more than it's not. And, the same applies to MC and the baseball program... you find ways to move forward. The Pac12 as it stands today is no more. As for WT and the MBB program... if he can somehow win 8 (?) Pac12 games, 15+ overall he will keep his job due to budget constraints. OSU might actually have to make a move somehow if he fails. The move away from the Pac12 might actually revitalize his career here?? But, eventually OSU will have to find a coach/salary more in line with a smaller conference. The economics is going to hurt in maintaining staff and in landing talent. But, folks act as if landing in a P4 with partial revenue share won't mean the same thing. The point is... OSU will have far less money after the 23-24 season and will have to move forward and find solutions. And, it will... and we'll have folks here that truly want to be here. Again, my personal belief, but I'd rather be in OSU's position than be one of the bottom tier teams in the B10, SEC, B12 getting their arses handed to them every week to collect a paycheck under the guise we're someday going to compete with tOSU, UM, Georgia, Bama, etc. Using football as it is the revenue sport... if you feel bad: B10 for the 2010 thru 2022 seasons: (some teams didn't join the B10 until after 2010) Rutgers 30-68 / 12-61 Maryland 43-57 / 21-49 Illinois 62-101 / 29-73 Other teams games under .500 in B10 play: Indiana (-54), Purdue (-30), Minny (-12), Northwestern (-14), Nebraska (-10, late add to B10) all losing B10 records. Not until Iowa at #6 the last decade do you find a winning B10 record. SEC... Vandy (-48), Arkansas (-32), Kentucky (-28), UT (-24), Ole Miss (-24), Missouri (-8... late SEC add), Miss St (-6) , Texas A&M (-0... late add to SEC). B12... Kansas (-87), Iowa St (-33), Texas Tech (-31), W.Virginia (-4), Texas (+4) B12 is the only conference where OSU could actually "fit" in and not be an also ran every year. But, that invite isn't coming so I'd still rather adapt to being big fish in smaller pond than cashing a check for mediocrity or worse. OSU simply will need to revamp it's NC scheduling to get games vs top tier competition... until we beat too many and they stop giving us games! We have not been on the road every NCAA tourney. What he is referring to is the first two rounds which are hosted by selected teams. We have hosted the first two rounds quite a few times. However It will be harder to have the necessary RPI to host those rounds if we are in a lower conference, so we may have to go on the road for the entire tourney from now on. I still think we have a good name out there and will do better then some think we will, but it will definitely be harder. But i do agree with you, even though it's not a great situation right now until we can find our conference solution, I think we may be ok in the long run. But no matter what, I'm not sure how well Oregon Washington USC and UCLA will do in the BIG10 year in and year out. We may be better then some people think we will be compared to the pac12 schools that left. They'll have bigger budgets of course, but if can get into the bottom floor of a streaming service and grow with it, who knows? Give it a couple of years and maybe we'll be in the better situation. My bad... not EVERY. But, if I'm remembering it was the (3) years OSU won the Pac12? The point being, unless you plan on being a top 2 team in most major conferences you're probably not hosting. And, I guess you need to win on the road eventually. Plus there have been non P5 teams that have hosted... although UConn prob should not count! But, if Villanova can OSU can. |
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Post by beavfan14 on Aug 22, 2023 13:16:18 GMT -8
We have not been on the road every NCAA tourney. What he is referring to is the first two rounds which are hosted by selected teams. We have hosted the first two rounds quite a few times. However It will be harder to have the necessary RPI to host those rounds if we are in a lower conference, so we may have to go on the road for the entire tourney from now on. I still think we have a good name out there and will do better then some think we will, but it will definitely be harder. But i do agree with you, even though it's not a great situation right now until we can find our conference solution, I think we may be ok in the long run. But no matter what, I'm not sure how well Oregon Washington USC and UCLA will do in the BIG10 year in and year out. We may be better then some people think we will be compared to the pac12 schools that left. They'll have bigger budgets of course, but if can get into the bottom floor of a streaming service and grow with it, who knows? Give it a couple of years and maybe we'll be in the better situation. My bad... not EVERY. But, if I'm remembering it was the (3) years OSU won the Pac12? The point being, unless you plan on being a top 2 team in most major conferences you're probably not hosting. And, I guess you need to win on the road eventually. Plus there have been non P5 teams that have hosted... although UConn prob should not count! But, if Villanova can OSU can. Yeah like I said, this may be very bad, but I agree with you I don't think it will be. I don't think it's quite as bad as others think. We'll see about other women's sports like gymnastics, or volleyball with a new coach or softball which made the world series a couple of years ago. I think our women's programs are generally pretty good, I just hope enough people step up to help fund it if our budget goes down significantly. |
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