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Post by fishwrapper on Aug 7, 2023 22:00:59 GMT -8
$$$
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 7, 2023 23:43:11 GMT -8
Aaron Burr was thought of as a better lawyer than Alexander Hamilton in his time, because Burr could say in five minutes what Hamilton took hours to say. It probably did not happen this way, but Burr was busy shooting Hamilton, while Hamilton was arguing that they should switch sides. There is absolutely nothing wrong with brevity. I "live brevity"..... keep it concise, accurate, and to the point.(I'm a manufacturer) However, I still like Hamilton, he would provide 52 pages of thought and information while some of his contemporaries would provide 3 pages. It doesn't mean I liked everything Alexander proposed, such as lifetime Senators, but I appreciate his thoroughness when approaching an issue. I have a bias..... I'm an information junkie, especially when it comes to history.😀 I believe Hamilton was trying to counterbalance the Supreme Court. They get lifetime appointments, so why don't the President and Senators serve for life? The President and Senate were also supposed to counterbalance the House of Representatives, which was supposed to be reactionary and subject to the whims of the voters. In Hamilton's mind, it would be good for the President and Senate to remain as fixed and entrenched as humanly possible, offset by the constantly-changing House of Representatives. He gave a speech at the Constitutional Convention about the subject, advocating for longer terms for the President and Senators, which haunted him the rest of his life. I believe that the indirect election of Senators ultimately helped assuage some of the concerns that people like Hamilton had with the Constitution. Of course, the 17th Amendment would later undo exactly what Hamilton had fought so hard for. Hamilton also then poorly explained the Federal Courts in Federalist Nos. 78-83. (Or he did not completely appreciate the power that the Supreme Court would create for itself under Chief Justice John Marshall in the vacuum left by the Constitution and Federalist Nos. 78-83.) In either instance, Madison leaving to help ratify the Constitution in Virginia probably did not help Hamilton's explanation of the Federal Courts. |
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Post by sparty on Aug 8, 2023 4:25:24 GMT -8
Yeah. And the Ducks have played for the national title recently. A couple of times. That's pretty solid. What they fail to see is the downward trend that we see. Revolving door coaches. Underperforming players. "Entitled" program. Ducks are going to have a hard time in the B1Gger. Will Uncle Phil's money help them keep afloat? We'll see. Will any pac team have it easy in big10? I dont see Washington or UCLA steam rolling teams either. |
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Post by osbrawler on Aug 8, 2023 5:48:53 GMT -8
Yes I can totally see B1G mids dropping one on uo now and then. The likes of Purdue, Michigan St, Wisc, Iowa etc. Especially in their own stadiums.
Another thought came to mind, B1G is about tradition, consistency, rivalry. Penn State, Michigan, Iowa etc keep the same uniform over the years. They don't change or need to change based on outside pressures. uo is opposite of this. They will be an anomaly in their new conference.
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Post by irimi on Aug 8, 2023 6:08:41 GMT -8
Yeah. And the Ducks have played for the national title recently. A couple of times. That's pretty solid. What they fail to see is the downward trend that we see. Revolving door coaches. Underperforming players. "Entitled" program. Ducks are going to have a hard time in the B1Gger. Will Uncle Phil's money help them keep afloat? We'll see. Will any pac team have it easy in big10? I dont see Washington or UCLA steam rolling teams either. On paper, I think maybe the teams can scrape a few wins. But throw in all the other factors like travel, weather, crowd size, etc and I can’t see an easy path for them. Their best hope is to schedule each other as much as possible. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 8, 2023 7:23:35 GMT -8
All I know is......I'm gonna be a huge Michigan/Ohio st/Iowa/Penn st/Mich st, etc, fan in '24......F all the defectors
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Post by irimi on Aug 8, 2023 7:35:03 GMT -8
All I know is......I'm gonna be a huge Michigan/Ohio st/Iowa/Penn st/Mich st, etc, fan in '24......F all the defectors Not so different from my standard operating procedure. Except the opponents will be different. I always root for these four teams to lose. It will be extra delicious next year. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Aug 8, 2023 7:44:53 GMT -8
All I know is......I'm gonna be a huge Michigan/Ohio st/Iowa/Penn st/Mich st, etc, fan in '24......F all the defectors Not so different from my standard operating procedure. Except the opponents will be different. I always root for these four teams to lose. It will be extra delicious next year. Yep......I didnt think my dislike of hole could increase. I was wrong! I've got a handful of duck fans in my FF leagues. We do live drafts. I'm really not in the mood to talk to em about all this s%#t......I mean they aren't too bad, but they're bad enough, and I'm a quart low on humor |
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clydebeav
Freshman
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Post by clydebeav on Aug 8, 2023 9:12:16 GMT -8
Will any pac team have it easy in big10? I dont see Washington or UCLA steam rolling teams either. On paper, I think maybe the teams can scrape a few wins. But throw in all the other factors like travel, weather, crowd size, etc and I can’t see an easy path for them. Their best hope is to schedule each other as much as possible. I see a lot of talk about how Oregon will struggle. I want that as much as any Beaver fan could, but I'm not so sure. I would assume that they keep East and West divisions and just move (2) current West division teams to the east to make room for the Pac-12 additions. In that scenario, Oregon, Washington, USC and UCLA would be playing in a division with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota and I'm assuming Illinois (assuming that Northwestern and Purdue move to the east). If you're in a 9 team division, how many games to you play against the other division? My point being that I would be surprised if Oregon plays Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, etc. very often. I think they are unfortunately in a position to be very successful. I could be way off on how the Big 10 will handle scheduling, but it's not like they will be playing every Big 10 team every year. |
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Post by RenoBeaver on Aug 8, 2023 9:27:57 GMT -8
On paper, I think maybe the teams can scrape a few wins. But throw in all the other factors like travel, weather, crowd size, etc and I can’t see an easy path for them. Their best hope is to schedule each other as much as possible. I see a lot of talk about how Oregon will struggle. I want that as much as any Beaver fan could, but I'm not so sure. I would assume that they keep East and West divisions and just move (2) current West division teams to the east to make room for the Pac-12 additions. In that scenario, Oregon, Washington, USC and UCLA would be playing in a division with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota and I'm assuming Illinois (assuming that Northwestern and Purdue move to the east). If you're in a 9 team division, how many games to you play against the other division? My point being that I would be surprised if Oregon plays Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, etc. very often. I think they are unfortunately in a position to be very successful. I could be way off on how the Big 10 will handle scheduling, but it's not like they will be playing every Big 10 team every year. They are doing away with Divisions and also now likely moving to play 10 conference games. It is entirely possible that Oregon gets lucky and they get to play the worst 7 teams in the Big in addition to 3 western teams. But I think it's safe to say they will be playing at least one of Ohio St, Penn St, and Michigan, and one of Wisky, Iowa, and Minnesota, if not three from those six teams. A schedule with say USC, UW, UCLA, Michigan, Wisky, Iowa, and probably OSU OOC is no easy task. (Or something similar and that should be the norm). Especially when they will be traveling eastward at least 3 or 4 times a year. They have their scheduling model on line...although it will likely change with additional of Hole and UW and if/when they go to 19 conference games |
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Post by hottubbeaver on Aug 8, 2023 9:30:17 GMT -8
So if the B1g and their media partners' motive was anything other than destroying a competing conferences' chance of survival. then why wouldn't they have wanted Utah instead of Oregon? In other words, if they were looking for the best two "investments" left on the table then why not pick Utah? Maybe they did and Utah told them they were standing tight with their conference? Look at the facts: SLC is a massively larger metro population base (otherwise known as market growth potential) advantage Utah Geographically closer. Saves travel time and travel expense. Not to mention just much easier more convenient travel. advantage Utah More compatible time zone advantage Utah Also the past 2 years reining P12 champion. Better "product" (I hate that term as it just desensitizes people to the commercialization of a beautiful fall tradition) but adv. Utah Recruiting access. Utah produces significantly more D1 prospects and far more higher rated ones on average at that. adv. Utah Academics. adv. Utah It looks clear the big wasn't so much looking to add the two most attractive teams remaining, albeit at a discounted price. It's clear they and their media partners were looking to crush the survival chances of a competing conference and needed two willing conspirators who were willing to turn on their remaining conference partners and stab them in the back. Utah probably was "floated" an offer and held strong to their word with conference partners at the time. It's not about metro population. It's about television markets. The Bend, Eugene, Medford-Klamath Falls, and Portland Media Markets together are more than 58.4% larger than the Salt Lake City Market. That is not even all of the state, because the Northeast and Southeast parts of the state are in media markets based out of Washington and Idaho. Compatible time zones are not a positive for football. You want as many in ET and PT as possible. Championships do not necessarily create product. Utah has won twice but has played like hot garbage in the Rose Bowl twice. And bowl game success or failure generally shape how a "product" is viewed, since they are usually the most-watched games of the year. You want to be in them first, but you also want to win or at least play ok . Utah produces more high quality players than Oregon, but that obscures two primary facts. The first is that absolutely does not matter where teams are physically located; it matters where they recruit. If Oregon can recruit well in California and Texas, that is better for the Big Ten than a Utah that recruits well in Utah. Second, Utah players, while more numerous, tend to go on missions more often, which diminishes their value. I will give you academics, but that, apparently, means little. Oregon was offered ahead of Utah, because they have a larger television market, provide the Pacific Time Zone, and recruit California and Texas better. That and Oregon has Nike and Utah has....................... Obvious decision, unless academics really matter, which they apparently do not. LIkewise Utah has other markets outside of SLC. I've seen some posts in this thread stating the ducks viewership is this or that. Considering every game features two teams how on earth can anyone conclusively determine the viewers motives for watching. Then there are several other drivers to viewing numbers which have no bearing on a tie to either team. For Example: The time game is aired is a big factor The channel it's aired on is a big factor Does it follow or proceed a big game on same channel How much hype and promotion did the game receive Are other games on, or not on at same time (is their competition for rabid college football fans eyes, fans who will tune into the most interesting game on at that time) The matchup, believe it or not people will tune into a game they have no vested interest in, just because on paper it looks to be an entertaining game People also tend to watch or follow a team they already played to see how they do, or an upcoming opponent for that matter People tune into games simply out of interest in seeing one particular player. Think Auburn/Georgia/SEC casual viewers and Bo Nix/Lanning. I assume we'll receive similar curious watchers from ACC/Clemson fans and some UF/SEC fans this season. Then of course there's the rankings angle which has always been used as a means to attract interest and viewers to games. If you're a fan of #18 you probably will have some interest in watching anyone ranked ahead of you to see if you'll move up. Utah vs USC 8pm ET Fri. FOX = 5.97 million viewers O vs NC 8pm ET Wed. FOX = 3.97 OSU vs UF 2:30pmET Sat ESPN = 2.45 The youtube highlights and condensed game videos of the Vegas bowl has more viewers than the Holiday. whatever that means. |
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clydebeav
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Post by clydebeav on Aug 8, 2023 9:49:02 GMT -8
I see a lot of talk about how Oregon will struggle. I want that as much as any Beaver fan could, but I'm not so sure. I would assume that they keep East and West divisions and just move (2) current West division teams to the east to make room for the Pac-12 additions. In that scenario, Oregon, Washington, USC and UCLA would be playing in a division with Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota and I'm assuming Illinois (assuming that Northwestern and Purdue move to the east). If you're in a 9 team division, how many games to you play against the other division? My point being that I would be surprised if Oregon plays Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, etc. very often. I think they are unfortunately in a position to be very successful. I could be way off on how the Big 10 will handle scheduling, but it's not like they will be playing every Big 10 team every year. They are doing away with Divisions and also now likely moving to play 10 conference games. It is entirely possible that Oregon gets lucky and they get to play the worst 7 teams in the Big in addition to 3 western teams. But I think it's safe to say they will be playing at least one of Ohio St, Penn St, and Michigan, and one of Wisky, Iowa, and Minnesota, if not three from those six teams. A schedule with say USC, UW, UCLA, Michigan, Wisky, Iowa, and probably OSU OOC is no easy task. (Or something similar and that should be the norm). Especially when they will be traveling eastward at least 3 or 4 times a year. They have their scheduling model on line...although it will likely change with additional of Hole and UW and if/when they go to 19 conference games Gotcha. 10 conference games. Wow. I had no idea. I guess that shouldn't surprise me. As these super conferences grow, I guess it would make sense to play more conference games and continue the plan of giving the middle finger everyone outside of these super conferences. |
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Post by irimi on Aug 8, 2023 10:07:44 GMT -8
It's not about metro population. It's about television markets. The Bend, Eugene, Medford-Klamath Falls, and Portland Media Markets together are more than 58.4% larger than the Salt Lake City Market. That is not even all of the state, because the Northeast and Southeast parts of the state are in media markets based out of Washington and Idaho. Compatible time zones are not a positive for football. You want as many in ET and PT as possible. Championships do not necessarily create product. Utah has won twice but has played like hot garbage in the Rose Bowl twice. And bowl game success or failure generally shape how a "product" is viewed, since they are usually the most-watched games of the year. You want to be in them first, but you also want to win or at least play ok . Utah produces more high quality players than Oregon, but that obscures two primary facts. The first is that absolutely does not matter where teams are physically located; it matters where they recruit. If Oregon can recruit well in California and Texas, that is better for the Big Ten than a Utah that recruits well in Utah. Second, Utah players, while more numerous, tend to go on missions more often, which diminishes their value.  I will give you academics, but that, apparently, means little. Oregon was offered ahead of Utah, because they have a larger television market, provide the Pacific Time Zone, and recruit California and Texas better. That and Oregon has Nike and Utah has....................... Obvious decision, unless academics really matter, which they apparently do not. LIkewise Utah has other markets outside of SLC. I've seen some posts in this thread stating the ducks viewership is this or that. Considering every game features two teams how on earth can anyone conclusively determine the viewers motives for watching. Then there are several other drivers to viewing numbers which have no bearing on a tie to either team. For Example: The time game is aired is a big factor The channel it's aired on is a big factor Does it follow or proceed a big game on same channel How much hype and promotion did the game receive Are other games on, or not on at same time (is their competition for rabid college football fans eyes, fans who will tune into the most interesting game on at that time) The matchup, believe it or not people will tune into a game they have no vested interest in, just because on paper it looks to be an entertaining game People also tend to watch or follow a team they already played to see how they do, or an upcoming opponent for that matter People tune into games simply out of interest in seeing one particular player. Think Auburn/Georgia/SEC casual viewers and Bo Nix/Lanning. I assume we'll receive similar curious watchers from ACC/Clemson fans and some UF/SEC fans this season. Then of course there's the rankings angle which has always been used as a means to attract interest and viewers to games. If you're a fan of #18 you probably will have some interest in watching anyone ranked ahead of you to see if you'll move up.  Utah vs USC 8pm ET Fri. FOX = 5.97 million viewers O vs NC 8pm ET Wed. FOX = 3.97 OSU vs UF 2:30pmET Sat ESPN = 2.45 The youtube highlights and condensed game videos of the Vegas bowl has more viewers than the Holiday. whatever that means.   Let’s look at Gameday. How many times has ESPN been in Utah? How about Eugene? I think it doesn’t show much except that the Ducks are a brand. Folks probably know the Duck colors and such. Who knows Utah? What has Utah done to receive national attention. I also think it’s interesting to see which teams those companies that make fan apparel and wall stickers advertise first. Oregon is there with Ohio State and SEC teams. It isn’t a scientific survey, but it reads the temperature of the room pretty well. Ducks are much bigger than Utah. |
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Post by hottubbeaver on Aug 8, 2023 11:17:44 GMT -8
Let’s look at Gameday. How many times has ESPN been in Utah? How about Eugene? I think it doesn’t show much except that the Ducks are a brand. Folks probably know the Duck colors and such. Who knows Utah? What has Utah done to receive national attention. I also think it’s interesting to see which teams those companies that make fan apparel and wall stickers advertise first. Oregon is there with Ohio State and SEC teams. It isn’t a scientific survey, but it reads the temperature of the room pretty well. Ducks are much bigger than Utah. For starters how about an Urban Meyer lead Utah team capping off an undefeated season by winning the Fiesta Bowl in 2004. In 2008 a Kyle Whittingham lead Utah team was undefeated heading into a Sugar Bowl matchup. (13-0) Utes 31 Bama 17 You should recall that season well and the back of the Utah endzone, but they're not alone in having some lucky breaks / calls go their way in an undefeated season. |
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Aug 8, 2023 11:27:33 GMT -8
Let’s look at Gameday. How many times has ESPN been in Utah? How about Eugene? I think it doesn’t show much except that the Ducks are a brand. Folks probably know the Duck colors and such. Who knows Utah? What has Utah done to receive national attention. I also think it’s interesting to see which teams those companies that make fan apparel and wall stickers advertise first. Oregon is there with Ohio State and SEC teams. It isn’t a scientific survey, but it reads the temperature of the room pretty well. Ducks are much bigger than Utah. For starters how about an Urban Meyer lead Utah team capping off an undefeated season by winning the Fiesta Bowl in 2004. In 2008 a Kyle Whittingham lead Utah team was undefeated heading into a Sugar Bowl matchup. (13-0) Utes 31 Bama 17 You should recall that season well and the back of the Utah endzone, but they're not alone in having some lucky breaks / calls go their way in an undefeated season. That is 15 to 20 years ago. Do you really expect fans from the east to remember that? Meanwhile the schmucks get attention continuously for their outfits, yes outfits, I've heard multiple non sport press calling them that. |
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