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Post by beaverology on Jul 15, 2023 7:21:26 GMT -8
Tim Shelton couldn’t ignore NIL opportunities at Oregon State versus what he’s seeing at competing schools. Shelton: “You’re trying to make yourself more aware of how to be a successful recruiter and how to retain your talent. My biggest fear is that the guys here don’t feel like we have enough resources to keep them.” Cue up the exit and say goodbye to the Beaver's best MBB player, Glenn Taylor Jr, who left for the money. Shelton: “You’re like, man, are we going to get lapped before we get in the race?" Last year in baseball, Oregon State was in the hunt to recruit Air Force right-hander Paul Skenes, who was in the transfer portal. He wound up at Louisiana State, where he won D1 Baseball Player of the Year honors and pitched the Bayou Tigers to the College World Series title — beating Oregon State in the Baton Rouge Regional. On July 9, the Pittsburgh Pirates made Skenes the first pick in the MLB draft. “He could have been in a Beaver uniform,” Scott Sanders says. “He ended up going to LSU for the money. That’s the world we’re living in right now. We had him. NIL is the reason we didn’t get him. Strictly because of the money. The bigger SEC schools have unlimited resources. That’s tough to compete against.” This year, the Beavers lost out on Sacramento State shortstop Wehiwa Aloy — the WAC Freshman of the Year — to Arkansas. And UCLA pitcher Kelly Austin, the Bruins’ No. 1 starter, to Florida. NIL money was at least a factor. “We have seen it in the baseball landscape,” says Darwin Barney, the former OSU shortstop great now an assistant coach on Canham’s staff. “What a lot of schools are doing is using NIL money as if they are scholarships.” “Recruits are telling us, ‘They start with this number. What do you have?’ ” Barney says. “And we don’t have it. We don’t even have stipend money to give to everybody.” Scott Barnes can push back and spin it however he wants, but the losing players of this caliber in MBB and baseball are body blows to Beaver programs that are already overmatched in the arms race. It begs the question: what players has Jonathan Smith missed on because of NIL money? It's time the Dam Nation changed their stance and at least attempt to get in the game. The pot of 'the right kind of kids for Corvallis' is shrinking. www.kerryeggers.com/stories/lapped-in-the-race-dam-nation-doing-its-best-to-prevent-it?mc_cid=9a4a91a6af |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 15, 2023 8:55:19 GMT -8
What kind of grates me is the repeated characterization of Taylor being our "best" MBB player.
He was a good player, lots of talent, and in about 6 or so games this season he looked the part, but in several games he didn't. I did not consider him to be consistent overall.
It certainly stings to lose him, but I think there's a real good chance that as sophmores, Pope, Rataj and Bilodeau all have a shot at having better overall seasons than Taylor had last season. We may have another one or two that show the kind of flashes Taylor showed several times this last year.
On the NIL situation, I do see it as a problem for the Beavers, don't know how to realistically "fix" it without having some rich guys with boners for boys in shorts throwing money at the program like some of the other schools do.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jul 15, 2023 9:37:11 GMT -8
The bad thing about NIL money is, it has to be paid every single year. So instead of someone's (for example) $3,000 annual donation going to help fund a real program enhancement, like a permanent capital improvement project such as a locker room, hitting facility, etc., if he/she redirects that contribution to supporting an NIL program it's essentially used as salary for a player for one year and there is no tangible long-term benefit.
Across the board you're paying hundreds of thousands of dollars every year in what are essentially labor costs above and beyond scholarships and cost of attendance stipends. That's hundreds of thousands of dollars that would otherwise be invested in tangible things, like facility improvements.
The original part of Goss Stadium is now 25 years old and there are real problems that need to be addressed. The grandstand above the concourse is rusting, the rows are too close together, with little legroom, many of the seats have obstructed views because of the ridiculous number of railings, the stairwells clog up the concourse, there aren't anywhere near enough restrooms.
The press box is way too small, Parker complained all spring about the new windows cut him off from the crowd and I've heard concerns this summer from some of the Knights staffers that the place is an oven when the temperature gets above 70 degrees because the new windows don't open and there is no air flow. The concession areas are crowded and inadequate for crowds of 3K and beyond. The whole grandstand above the concourse needs to be blown up and rebuilt so it loads from the top-down.
The new hitting facility will be nice. But it's past time to spend some money on the stadium itself.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jul 15, 2023 12:14:52 GMT -8
One more thing: Egger's story just confirms that Skenes and Aloy simply went where they got the most money. Except for the number of zeroes on the offer, how is that anything different than free agency in pro sports? Those guys weren't college kids, they were pro athletes, paid to do a job.
If that's what college athletics is becoming, then count me out. I'll redirect my giving to the academic side, or to a Division III program where the kids still are real student/athletes. If that means I'm sticking my head in the sand, then so be it.
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Post by rgeorge on Jul 15, 2023 12:32:06 GMT -8
One more thing: Egger's story just confirms that Skenes and Aloy simply went where they got the most money. Except for the number of zeroes on the offer, how is that anything different than free agency in pro sports? Those guys weren't college kids, they were pro athletes, paid to do a job. If that's what college athletics is becoming, then count me out. I'll redirect my giving to the academic side, or to a Division III program where the kids still are real student/athletes. If that means I'm sticking my head in the sand, then so be it. All ready done that here. Donations are to academic schools or specific programs or endowments. Giving $ to an NIL is a self defeating proposition. And, as stated I'm not a real pro sports fan. OSU will NEVER, EVER keep up the the elite level schools will billion $ athletic donors, huge TV & ad revenue, and sell out crowds of 65-90k+. Not in facilities, not in NIL pools. Two MUCH wealthier friends who both sold multi multi million dollar companies and are large donors just stopped with large donations to athletics. They were both approached for Reser $, then by both NIL enities. The continual ask ask ask is getting old. They offered an very early compromise when it appeared NIL was going to take root. To "downsize" Reser... to make it nice, with upgrades, views, better amenities. But, cut out the "fat", the ultra luxury. Make it better and fam friendly for under $110 mil at that time and have donors utilize part of their donations to a well funded "trust", well invested, that would have far reaching effects if NIL came to what it has today. They had a biz model for the donation "splits", the trust, and how Reser could be scaled way back. They were shot down. No discussion. As they stated, you'll have a very nice stadium that will do nothing to secure athletes. Especially for other programs. Elite facilties are not the only game in town now. Who knows what will happen with league affiliations, the NCAA divisions, TV deals, etc. But, for the OSU admin to think that they can compete monetarily with the SEC, B10, etc is ludicrous. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 15, 2023 13:11:09 GMT -8
One more thing: Egger's story just confirms that Skenes and Aloy simply went where they got the most money. Except for the number of zeroes on the offer, how is that anything different than free agency in pro sports? Those guys weren't college kids, they were pro athletes, paid to do a job. If that's what college athletics is becoming, then count me out. I'll redirect my giving to the academic side, or to a Division III program where the kids still are real student/athletes. If that means I'm sticking my head in the sand, then so be it. All ready done that here. Donations are to academic schools or specific programs or endowments. Giving $ to an NIL is a self defeating proposition. And, as stated I'm not a real pro sports fan. OSU will NEVER, EVER keep up the the elite level schools will billion $ athletic donors, huge TV & ad revenue, and sell out crowds of 65-90k+. Not in facilities, not in NIL pools. Two MUCH wealthier friends who both sold multi multi million dollar companies and are large donors just stopped with large donations to athletics. They were both approached for Reser $, then by both NIL enities. The continual ask ask ask is getting old. They offered an very early compromise when it appeared NIL was going to take root. To "downsize" Reser... to make it nice, with upgrades, views, better amenities. But, cut out the "fat", the ultra luxury. Make it better and fam friendly for under $110 mil at that time and have donors utilize part of their donations to a well funded "trust", well invested, that would have far reaching effects if NIL came to what it has today. They had a biz model for the donation "splits", the trust, and how Reser could be scaled way back. They were shot down. No discussion. As they stated, you'll have a very nice stadium that will do nothing to secure athletes. Especially for other programs. Elite facilties are not the only game in town now. Who knows what will happen with league affiliations, the NCAA divisions, TV deals, etc. But, for the OSU admin to think that they can compete monetarily with the SEC, B10, etc is ludicrous. We are so far behind that we should all pull our money out of athletics. That is very self-defeating. Honestly, your money is even more important to Oregon State than it is to other schools. You are obviously free to spend money the way that you want, but I do not follow the logic. |
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Post by rgeorge on Jul 15, 2023 15:22:41 GMT -8
All ready done that here. Donations are to academic schools or specific programs or endowments. Giving $ to an NIL is a self defeating proposition. And, as stated I'm not a real pro sports fan. OSU will NEVER, EVER keep up the the elite level schools will billion $ athletic donors, huge TV & ad revenue, and sell out crowds of 65-90k+. Not in facilities, not in NIL pools. Two MUCH wealthier friends who both sold multi multi million dollar companies and are large donors just stopped with large donations to athletics. They were both approached for Reser $, then by both NIL enities. The continual ask ask ask is getting old. They offered an very early compromise when it appeared NIL was going to take root. To "downsize" Reser... to make it nice, with upgrades, views, better amenities. But, cut out the "fat", the ultra luxury. Make it better and fam friendly for under $110 mil at that time and have donors utilize part of their donations to a well funded "trust", well invested, that would have far reaching effects if NIL came to what it has today. They had a biz model for the donation "splits", the trust, and how Reser could be scaled way back. They were shot down. No discussion. As they stated, you'll have a very nice stadium that will do nothing to secure athletes. Especially for other programs. Elite facilties are not the only game in town now. Who knows what will happen with league affiliations, the NCAA divisions, TV deals, etc. But, for the OSU admin to think that they can compete monetarily with the SEC, B10, etc is ludicrous. We are so far behind that we should all pull our money out of athletics. That is very self-defeating. Honestly, your money is even more important to Oregon State than it is to other schools. You are obviously free to spend money the way that you want, but I do not follow the logic. At times in some of your "musings" you tend to just make stuff up. But, to keep this simple, I am free to spend/donate my money as I see fit. That is the logic. And, I in no way espoused others to follow suit or agree with my donating philosophy. |
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Post by badwack on Jul 15, 2023 16:23:23 GMT -8
What the NCAA has created is another minor league. With the kind of money they are already throwing around College BB is done. Divisions with money will keep making more money while everyone else tries to make "Fun" Baseball work.
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Post by ag87 on Jul 15, 2023 17:11:25 GMT -8
What the NCAA has created is another minor league. With the kind of money they are already throwing around College BB is done. Divisions with money will keep making more money while everyone else tries to make "Fun" Baseball work. The SEC is on their way to AAA+ or whatever the Pacific Coast League was called until the Dodgers and Giants moved west. The only limitation is you get four years. If the NCAA can't step in and say that NIL is only for name, image, and likeness then congress does (yes, no expectations of that). But the pay for play model is just plain stupid. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 15, 2023 17:25:38 GMT -8
What the NCAA has created is another minor league. With the kind of money they are already throwing around College BB is done. Divisions with money will keep making more money while everyone else tries to make "Fun" Baseball work. The SEC is on their way to AAA+ or whatever the Pacific Coast League was called until the Dodgers and Giants moved west. The only limitation is you get four years. If the NCAA can't step in and say that NIL is only for name, image, and likeness then congress does (yes, no expectations of that). But the pay for play model is just plain stupid. 4 years is not a limitation. At this point, you just transfer to a new school every year for more $$. |
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Post by bvrbooster on Jul 15, 2023 17:37:32 GMT -8
With respect to NIL money and Oregon State's inability to compete with SEC schools in the major sports:
That's no doubt true, and will remain true. So why not consider throwing the most NIL money at other sports that don't have as high a profile? We have a very good gymnastics program; maybe we could make it great by outspending others. Women's track and field, both golf teams, rowing . . . There are opportunities to become players on the national stage in many sports.
Just a thought.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jul 15, 2023 17:54:14 GMT -8
The SEC is on their way to AAA+ or whatever the Pacific Coast League was called until the Dodgers and Giants moved west. The only limitation is you get four years. If the NCAA can't step in and say that NIL is only for name, image, and likeness then congress does (yes, no expectations of that). But the pay for play model is just plain stupid. 4 years is not a limitation. At this point, you just transfer to a new school every year for more $$. If they quit giving out waivers to two-time transfers, as they say they will, that won't happen. The transfer craze will also be reduced somewhat when the athletes who got a free year for Covid finally cycle through, because there will not be as many grad transfers. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 15, 2023 18:17:57 GMT -8
With respect to NIL money and Oregon State's inability to compete with SEC schools in the major sports: That's no doubt true, and will remain true. So why not consider throwing the most NIL money at other sports that don't have as high a profile? We have a very good gymnastics program; maybe we could make it great by outspending others. Women's track and field, both golf teams, rowing . . . There are opportunities to become players on the national stage in many sports. Just a thought. Throwing money at non-revenue generating sports? Brilliant! |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 15, 2023 18:20:16 GMT -8
4 years is not a limitation. At this point, you just transfer to a new school every year for more $$. If they quit giving out waivers to two-time transfers, as they say they will, that won't happen. The transfer craze will also be reduced somewhat when the athletes who got a free year for Covid finally cycle through, because there will not be as many grad transfers. They have not passed the one transfer rule, so right now it is a free for all. The only hurdle is the process towards graduation requirement. So, as long as you can meet that requirement, you can transfer every year. |
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Post by bvrbooster on Jul 15, 2023 21:33:10 GMT -8
With respect to NIL money and Oregon State's inability to compete with SEC schools in the major sports: That's no doubt true, and will remain true. So why not consider throwing the most NIL money at other sports that don't have as high a profile? We have a very good gymnastics program; maybe we could make it great by outspending others. Women's track and field, both golf teams, rowing . . . There are opportunities to become players on the national stage in many sports. Just a thought. Throwing money at non-revenue generating sports? Brilliant! Well, Judge, look at it this way. Each school has X number of dollars for NIL, but they all use different equations to arrive at their own X. Alabama's X is significantly greater than Oregon State's X; we're all agreed on that. And Alabama chooses to spend a very significant percentage of their X on their biggest revenue producer, football. Consequently, it is currently mathematically impossible for us to compete with them, monetarily, for the services of a 5 star football recruit for 4 years, 3 if he can make more money going to the NFL after junior year. If money is the deal maker or deal breaker, the kid's going to Alabama. Therefore, it is an exercise in futility to even try. Our best bet is to do what we've always done - try to find the 3 star kid with potential and coach him up. But (and this is a big but), I'd guess you could get 2 or 3 four star equivalent softball players for the same money as a single high three star or low four star linebacker. You could get 5 track and field athletes, or an entire golf team. And even if you spend the lion's share of your X on football, you're not going to get past the 8-5 or 9-4 plateau 11 years out of 12. I try to pay some attention to all sports, and I've enjoyed seeing women's track and field get a little bit better each year since they restarted the program. I'm far from a track nut, but wouldn't it be cool to see that program rise to national prominence? If that happens, would it not matter to you because it's not a revenue producing sport? |
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