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Post by rgeorge on Jul 17, 2023 11:38:23 GMT -8
I honestly can’t imagine anyone thinking Tink’s program is even REMOTELY close to being mediocre. It isn’t. It IS less than mediocre. Most would agree. But those that don't will qualify their definition with some series of excuses. But, his record clearly indicates mediocre would be the best one could say. |
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Post by beaverology on Jul 17, 2023 11:50:33 GMT -8
How would people describe the Anderson era?
The Payne era?
The McKay (2 years) era?
The John era?
The CR era?
Let's hear it.
MBB had 2 winning seasons from 1990 thru 2013.
How would people describe those years?
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Post by beaverology on Jul 17, 2023 12:04:09 GMT -8
Over the last 20 years, the OSU job has become one of the most challenging in all of college basketball. Now we know that the Dam Nation Collective won't be using their NIL money to help recruit new players (that makes OSU the only school in the Pac12 doing this). Who in their right mind would want to take that job? Answer = very few.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 17, 2023 12:31:41 GMT -8
How would people describe the Anderson era? The Payne era? The McKay (2 years) era? The John era? The CR era? Let's hear it. MBB had 2 winning seasons from 1990 thru 2013. How would people describe those years? The 20 year span prior to Tinkle OSU was 169 games below .500 in conference play, now that is a stat. Tinkle's stats sucks, but he's done better than the previous couple decades of coaches. Personally, I've always considered "mediocre" to mean below average. OSU has had a mediocre/ below average basketball PROGRAM for over 30 years now, but Tinkle is probably the best of all the coaches here in that time period. Only a fool would think a coaching change without OSU making a true investment in basketball would fix things. I figure if the team doesn't win at least half its games this upcoming season it'll probably be Tinkle's last here, BUT I think he's actually done a better than average job here given the circumstances. OSU's basketball mediocrity goes well beyond who the head coach is, and until they change their ways, any coach will struggle here. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 17, 2023 12:41:00 GMT -8
I honestly can’t imagine anyone thinking Tink’s program is even REMOTELY close to being mediocre. It isn’t. It IS less than mediocre. Most would agree. But those that don't will qualify their definition with some series of excuses. But, his record clearly indicates mediocre would be the best one could say. It is a mediocre program with sub-mediocre support. It is an excellent program based upon the sub-mediocre support. But the compulsive gambler-esque torch and pitchfork crowd is sure that we can find someone that will the straw that is program support into 24 karat gold. I am having the craziest déjà vu. Because I heard the exact same sermon and verse back in 2014 in football, and then we lost most of a decade on just dreadful football as a result. The perpetual discussion comes down to a very tired "Don't settle for mediocrity" versus "Grow up and get real" discussion. Unless you greatly increase program support; find an unknown coach in the weeds, who is a genius and yet willing to work for peanuts with no program support; or hire a new Athletic Director, I personally say, "Grow up and get real." The team is mediocre, because program support is abysmally non-existent. And people outside of the program know that it is abysmally non-existent. Shelton just left, because he is sick of it and found greener pastures at Colorado State, of all places. If you support the team more, you should see better results. Instead, it's "Don't settle for mediocrity." Bleh. Grow up, hippy. Get a job, and go support men's basketball. Otherwise, cease pissing and moaning. The rest of us with jobs are trying to sleep. In the meantime, for those who aren't complete loons: |
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Post by rgeorge on Jul 17, 2023 12:41:09 GMT -8
How would people describe the Anderson era? The Payne era? The McKay (2 years) era? The John era? The CR era? Let's hear it. MBB had 2 winning seasons from 1990 thru 2013. How would people describe those years? The 20 year span prior to Tinkle OSU was 169 games below .500 in conference play, now that is a stat. Tinkle's stats sucks, but he's done better than the previous couple decades of coaches. Personally, I've always considered "mediocre" to mean below average. OSU has had a mediocre/ below average basketball PROGRAM for over 30 years now, but Tinkle is probably the best of all the coaches here in that time period. Only a fool would think a coaching change without OSU making a true investment in basketball would fix things. I figure if the team doesn't win at least half its games this upcoming season it'll probably be Tinkle's last here, BUT I think he's actually done a better than average job here given the circumstances. OSU's basketball mediocrity goes well beyond who the head coach is, and until they change their ways, any coach will struggle here. Speak to WT's record... not in a comparative mode. That is always the "out" on this particular board. Luckily it is not among the boosters. It use to be the old "give him time to get his own players". That sort of failed. Then it was Covid made it tough on him, although other teams didn't seem to fall off near as badly due to online recruiting. Again, just focus on WT's results. What say you? |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 17, 2023 12:51:18 GMT -8
The 20 year span prior to Tinkle OSU was 169 games below .500 in conference play, now that is a stat. Tinkle's stats sucks, but he's done better than the previous couple decades of coaches. Personally, I've always considered "mediocre" to mean below average. OSU has had a mediocre/ below average basketball PROGRAM for over 30 years now, but Tinkle is probably the best of all the coaches here in that time period. Only a fool would think a coaching change without OSU making a true investment in basketball would fix things. I figure if the team doesn't win at least half its games this upcoming season it'll probably be Tinkle's last here, BUT I think he's actually done a better than average job here given the circumstances. OSU's basketball mediocrity goes well beyond who the head coach is, and until they change their ways, any coach will struggle here. Speak to WT's record... not in a comparative mode. That is always the "out" on this particular board. Luckily it is not among the boosters. It use to be the old "give him time to get his own players". That sort of failed. Then it was Covid made it tough on him, although other teams didn't seem to fall off near as badly due to online recruiting. Again, just focus on WT's results. What say you? That's not an "out," and you have no rebuttal other than calling it an "out." You are trying to argue that Oregon State should be doing better with inferior resources. Please explain how that is logical. As for results: Pretty f#*king great. |
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Post by rgeorge on Jul 17, 2023 12:57:14 GMT -8
Most would agree. But those that don't will qualify their definition with some series of excuses. But, his record clearly indicates mediocre would be the best one could say. It is a mediocre program with sub-mediocre support. It is an excellent program based upon the sub-mediocre support. But the compulsive gambler-esque torch and pitchfork crowd is sure that we can find someone that will the straw that is program support into 24 karat gold. I am having the craziest déjà vu. Because I heard the exact same sermon and verse back in 2014 in football, and then we lost most of a decade on just dreadful football as a result. The perpetual discussion comes down to a very tired "Don't settle for mediocrity" versus "Grow up and get real" discussion. Unless you greatly increase program support; find an unknown coach in the weeds, who is a genius and yet willing to work for peanuts with no program support; or hire a new Athletic Director, I personally say, "Grow up and get real." The team is mediocre, because program support is abysmally non-existent. And people outside of the program know that it is abysmally non-existent. Shelton just left, because he is sick of it and found greener pastures at Colorado State, of all places. If you support the team more, you should see better results. Instead, it's "Don't settle for mediocrity." Bleh. Grow up, hippy. Get a job, and go support men's basketball. Otherwise, cease pissing and moaning. The rest of us with jobs are trying to sleep. In the meantime, for those who aren't complete loons: Lol... back to making stuff up? Who's ever stated that the program needs to be 24 carat? And, what "support" are you talking about? So you think the "governmental method" of throwing more money at a mediocre system will make it better? A system that loses in every fashion? That filling Gill with season ticket holders will improve coaching acumen. That more $ in the recruiting budget means a better recruit to the program? Lol Kids know. Good to great players want to go to a staff and program that can make them better. In 9 seasons WT has not consistently shown any thing remotely close to being a good coach and developer of talent. Those outside the program know that. Money will not fix WT's issues, he's 9 seasons into how players and coaches view him. Argue all you want, WT's numbers are what they are. And, you don't have to search very hard to find non P5 programs with less "support" and better success. But, I'm pretty sure the "old" excuses will be joined by some new ones in '23/24. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 17, 2023 13:23:29 GMT -8
It is a mediocre program with sub-mediocre support. It is an excellent program based upon the sub-mediocre support. But the compulsive gambler-esque torch and pitchfork crowd is sure that we can find someone that will the straw that is program support into 24 karat gold. I am having the craziest déjà vu. Because I heard the exact same sermon and verse back in 2014 in football, and then we lost most of a decade on just dreadful football as a result. The perpetual discussion comes down to a very tired "Don't settle for mediocrity" versus "Grow up and get real" discussion. Unless you greatly increase program support; find an unknown coach in the weeds, who is a genius and yet willing to work for peanuts with no program support; or hire a new Athletic Director, I personally say, "Grow up and get real." The team is mediocre, because program support is abysmally non-existent. And people outside of the program know that it is abysmally non-existent. Shelton just left, because he is sick of it and found greener pastures at Colorado State, of all places. If you support the team more, you should see better results. Instead, it's "Don't settle for mediocrity." Bleh. Grow up, hippy. Get a job, and go support men's basketball. Otherwise, cease pissing and moaning. The rest of us with jobs are trying to sleep. In the meantime, for those who aren't complete loons: Lol... back to making stuff up? Who's ever stated that the program needs to be 24 carat? And, what "support" are you talking about? So you think the "governmental method" of throwing more money at a mediocre system will make it better? A system that loses in every fashion? That filling Gill with season ticket holders will improve coaching acumen. That more $ in the recruiting budget means a better recruit to the program? Lol Kids know. Good to great players want to go to a staff and program that can make them better. In 9 seasons WT has not consistently shown any thing remotely close to being a good coach and developer of talent. Those outside the program know that. Money will not fix WT's issues, he's 9 seasons into how players and coaches view him.
Argue all you want, WT's numbers are what they are. And, you don't have to search very hard to find non P5 programs with less "support" and better success. But, I'm pretty sure the "old" excuses will be joined by some new ones in '23/24.Teams whose "success" is beating up on teams with even less support? How many have toppled UCLA, Oregon, and Colorado on consecutive nights? #1 You are comparing, which you said is a no-no. #2 You are comparing apples to oranges, which is actually a no-no.
I watch Eubanks and GPII in the NBA. I see Alatishe, Ethan, and Kelley in the G League. And Tres just cycled through there on the way to France. Like who is a better developer of talent, based upon recruiting stars (or the almost complete lack thereof)? This is a support issue. Tinkle may not be a great coach with great support. That is entirely possible. But he has put together some f#*king remarkable seasons with almost nonexistent support, at least five that he had no business putting together. Example: Three stinkers, and one par outing back in 2017-18. 1 phenomenal season, three great seasons, one above average season, one mediocre season, one pretty bad rebuilding season, and two pure train-wrecks. Add those together, and that is a legacy of Oregon State success. You can't expect much more given the financial support. I mean, you could expect more, I guess. I just 100% disagree. |
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Post by rgeorge on Jul 17, 2023 14:18:14 GMT -8
Lol... back to making stuff up? Who's ever stated that the program needs to be 24 carat? And, what "support" are you talking about? So you think the "governmental method" of throwing more money at a mediocre system will make it better? A system that loses in every fashion? That filling Gill with season ticket holders will improve coaching acumen. That more $ in the recruiting budget means a better recruit to the program? Lol Kids know. Good to great players want to go to a staff and program that can make them better. In 9 seasons WT has not consistently shown any thing remotely close to being a good coach and developer of talent. Those outside the program know that. Money will not fix WT's issues, he's 9 seasons into how players and coaches view him.
Argue all you want, WT's numbers are what they are. And, you don't have to search very hard to find non P5 programs with less "support" and better success. But, I'm pretty sure the "old" excuses will be joined by some new ones in '23/24.Teams whose "success" is beating up on teams with even less support? How many have toppled UCLA, Oregon, and Colorado on consecutive nights? #1 You are comparing, which you said is a no-no. #2 You are comparing apples to oranges, which is actually a no-no.
I watch Eubanks and GPII in the NBA. I see Alatishe, Ethan, and Kelley in the G League. And Tres just cycled through there on the way to France. Like who is a better developer of talent, based upon recruiting stars (or the almost complete lack thereof)? This is a support issue. Tinkle may not be a great coach with great support. That is entirely possible. But he has put together some f#*king remarkable seasons with almost nonexistent support, at least five that he had no business putting together. Example: Three stinkers, and one par outing back in 2017-18. 1 phenomenal season, three great seasons, one above average season, one mediocre season, one pretty bad rebuilding season, and two pure train-wrecks. Add those together, and that is a legacy of Oregon State success. You can't expect much more given the financial support. I mean, you could expect more, I guess. I just 100% disagree. It's perfectly OK to disagree, 100% or less. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. WT took the job and knew full well the state of the program. I'm fairly certain he was made no specific promises about significant increases in funding. And, the outstanding seasons you mention were under the same circumstances as he has always been under, yet the extremely poor seasons are caused by them??? Hmmm, so for a couple of season he just overcame all odds? Hmmmm, unique take I've heard before. Credit for the anomaly, but excuses for the poor. Ok... got it! So, we both 100% disagree with one another. That's cool... |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 17, 2023 15:07:19 GMT -8
Speak to WT's record... not in a comparative mode. That is always the "out" on this particular board. Luckily it is not among the boosters. It use to be the old "give him time to get his own players". That sort of failed. Then it was Covid made it tough on him, although other teams didn't seem to fall off near as badly due to online recruiting. Again, just focus on WT's results. What say you? |
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Post by beaver94 on Jul 17, 2023 15:20:46 GMT -8
All I know is that this topic has become tedious.
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Post by lebaneaver on Jul 17, 2023 15:24:21 GMT -8
So.....in other words.....after all the "disagreements," OSU basketball is less than mediocre. NOT Tink's fault. I think MOST of us get that. Throw away the Elite Eight year..... and the "one that followed," and it doesn't change a damn thing. Does it?
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Post by rgeorge on Jul 17, 2023 15:42:17 GMT -8
Speak to WT's record... not in a comparative mode. That is always the "out" on this particular board. Luckily it is not among the boosters. It use to be the old "give him time to get his own players". That sort of failed. Then it was Covid made it tough on him, although other teams didn't seem to fall off near as badly due to online recruiting. Again, just focus on WT's results. What say you? Yep... and "finger pointing", rationalization, etc. etc. In the whole "name a better choice" game played here I've never bitten as there are many candidates that would take a Pac12 gig for less than WT is making and have every bit of a chance to exceed what WT has done. But, it really is not a "provable fact", yet after (9) seasons the program's overall record is. Again, that depends on a one and done NCAA, and an E8 with a horrible overall and conference record is new bar because we now base everything on the past!? Then I guess the next MBB coach, whenever that takes place is a lucky guy! But, I guess a guy like, ummmm... let's go with Leon Rice at lowly BSU. With 1/2 the budget, and $900k salary for 2023 ( I think his new extension tops out at like $1.1 mil in 2027) he shouldn't be averaging over 20 wins per year for 13 seasons. He shouldn't have 25+ players who were not Pac12 worthy (or were and he out recruited with less money? or developed the hell out of inferior players??) go on to some type of pro career. With a NC schedule equal or superior to OSU's in most of those years, in a well respected conference, and 20+ wins in 8 of the last 11 seasons there is no way he could survive in the Pac12, let alone have a better run than WT!!? I get it... |
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Post by rgeorge on Jul 17, 2023 15:43:09 GMT -8
All I know is that this topic has become tedious. So is the off season... |
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