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Post by nabeav on Nov 8, 2015 7:10:41 GMT -8
More concerning to me than the lack of wins is the lack of people in the seats. Since the stadium expanded in 2005, Reser Stadium has had an announced attendance (according to Wikipedia) of less than 40K fans six times - five if you don't count the rescheduled game against Nicholls State. This year, our best attended game (allegedly) was yesterday - clocking in at 38,074. For a day game. On Dad's weekend. Against a ranked opponent. I really thought that the new coach, new style of offense would spur ticket sales, but that didn't happen. The opposite happened. Given the enrollment explosion that occurred after the Fiesta Bowl, you'd think that we'd be adding more season tickets as those alums who have known nothing but a competitive football program since their freshman year enter their prime earning potential years. Those kids are all in their mid to late 30's now. The night game argument is there, but it's not like it's a brand new phenomenon. There have been at least 3 home night games every year since the Pac-12 network came to be, and there have to be some other people like me who actually enjoy the night games because they don't interfere with youth soccer or other family obligations nearly as much.
Another huge issue that I don't think is being talked about yet is that the significant investment Oregon State made by bringing in this new staff. Andersen's contract starts at $2.45M this year and rises to $2.95M by 2021. OSU also paid Wisconsin $3M to buy him out of his old contract. Mike Riley was making about $1M less, and his assistants were also paid less than the current staff. This doesn't include other costs, like getting all of the players iPads to study plays on. All of this, combined with the expansion of the Valley Football Center (a necessary expense, as the locker room was light years behind the rest of the conference) means additional revenue streams were needed. But, instead of doing something similar to the #commit2wayne deal the athletic department did for the basketball program - lowering ticket prices the first year to lure people in before better recruits came in and made the product on the court more attractive - the athletic department went the opposite way, raising prices across the board. I don't remember the exact prices for season tickets last year, but I know that I paid less last year for a seven game home schedule that included the Civil War than I did this year for a six game schedule that was highlighted by a Stanford team that nobody thought would be great and a UW team that has won more than eight games in a season only three times since 1992.
By not figuring out a way to prop ticket sales up this year and the disaster that has unfolded on the field, it's going to be that much more difficult to get people in the seats next year. At some point, something is going to have to get cut from the budget, but I don't think it'll be in the football program. They're too far down that road. Some other sport or sports are going to be affected by this. You can make the argument that "you have to spend money to make money" or "if you build it, they will come," but that's only if you spend that money wisely, or you build something that doesn't include four night games a season apparently.
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Post by thebeav on Nov 8, 2015 7:37:01 GMT -8
Good questions. This program oozes "small time" in so many sad ways. Butts in the seats is the most noticeable to me.
Last night I attended the game in Eugene with my son's 4th grade football team. I, until that point, had never been to a game there. Sitting there I could only think about how far OSU has to go to get to that level of game day atmosphere. They have it dialed in. Saturdays in Corvallis are nowhere near that level.
I have to believe that ticket prices have little to do with it. If OSU's game experience was anything close to Autzen's I would pay twice as much for the privilege to attend.
Maybe I am a little shell shocked by seeing the huge gap between the two programs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 8:36:47 GMT -8
Two really good posts. I think Ray needs to sit down and ask some really hard questions of the AD:
1. What can be done to jump start an improvement in the product on the field? If Andersen has a slow, long term plan of recruiting "My kind of guys," as high school kids, so that we're competitive by year five, that needs to be revisited. The fanbase is already impatient with Andersen. Its not going to sit still for another year or two of what we've been seeing.
2. Is this coaching staff good enough? I know Andersen isn't going anywhere. But I'm not sure we're getting as much out of the assistants as we should, the OC in particular. Do they have multi year contracts?
3. What can be done to raise the level of the game day experience? DeCarolis was tone deaf to this. What about Stansbury? Anybody know anything? If we continue to have a second or third tier game day experience we will get nothing but second and third tier recruits.
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Post by beaverbeliever on Nov 8, 2015 8:40:13 GMT -8
We're 2-7. The fact that we had 38,000 at kickoff is fairly impressive, IMO. If you think Reser was empty yesterday, you should have watched the Utah-UW game. The endzones at Husky Stadium were completely empty save for the band. Losing + lousy weather makes for poor attendance (UW was even coming off a blowout win).
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Post by nabeav on Nov 8, 2015 8:47:53 GMT -8
Good questions. This program oozes "small time" in so many sad ways. Butts in the seats is the most noticeable to me. OSU has a serious identity problem. For years, people have railed against Riley and his "aw shucks" demeanor and how we embraced the "small time" feeling that exuded from the football program. Yet every attempt to go away from that is met with stiff opposition. They tried to institute "hipper" music for the start of the third quarter, and everyone wanted us to go back to classic rock. They give a microphone to a student to help pump the crowd up, and people complain that he's too loud? Also, I noticed he was much more subdued this week - I'm not sure if that had to do with the criticism he's heard or the rain or the fact that there were only 3700 people in the stands at the start of the fourth quarter and he didn't even need the microphone for people to hear him. It seems like over the past few years, OSU has tried to start numerous new traditions - the failed "chainsaw" song, singing the fight song with the team after the game, etc. But the thing about traditions is that you need to do them over and over until they stick, or they need to happen by accident. You can't manufacture a tradition overnight. The tomahawk chop on first downs, followed by the entire crowd grunting at the end didn't happen fifteen years ago, but some students started doing it and it caught on. AC/DC wasn't the result of a fan poll or anything...it just was a song someone picked and stuck with it. Sort of unrelated, but Gary Andersen has talked all season about finding an offensive identity, yet it seems every single game we come out with a new strategy. Ryan Nall gets 22 carries one week, none the next. We run our QB 23 times one week with some success, then say we can't win running our QB the next and start working a less mobile QB into the mix. I'm particularly confused since Andersen has made no secret of his desire to have a running QB. From Utah St. to Wisconsin to Oregon State, the QB with the best legs has won the job. This season has been full of contradictions - we hear that the team never quits, then in the next sentence, we hear that some players don't want to be in this fight. Andersen says that the blame falls on his shoulders, then says that some players are refusing to learn what he's teaching them. Are we trying to honor the seniors by getting wins this season, or are we trying to get younger guys playing time? He said the other day that 30 years from now, we'll be honoring these seniors and that he's going to take care of them; yet he's said numerous times that the old guys need to get on the bus or they're going to be left behind. As a fan, it's frustrating to hear. As a player though, how on earth do they prepare week to week or know what's expected of them? |
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Post by nabeav on Nov 8, 2015 8:54:17 GMT -8
And with regards to game day experience - it seems to be getting worse. Fireworks going off for no apparent reason, music playing while the game is going on, the hall of fame inductees standing on the field while play is going on. These seem like simple problems to avoid.
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 8, 2015 8:55:03 GMT -8
$80 doesn't draw in the casual fan who may pay that much or more to watch a game at the landfill.
Team starts winning, people jump on board.
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 8, 2015 8:56:14 GMT -8
Good questions. This program oozes "small time" in so many sad ways. Butts in the seats is the most noticeable to me. Are we trying to honor the seniors by getting wins this season, or are we trying to get younger guys playing time? He said the other day that 30 years from now, we'll be honoring these seniors and that he's going to take care of them; yet he's said numerous times that the old guys need to get on the bus or they're going to be left behind. As a fan, it's frustrating to hear. As a player though, how on earth do they prepare week to week or know what's expected of them? No, the honoring of seniors was last year and the QB with the most yards in the Pac-12. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 9:22:04 GMT -8
This season has been full of contradictions - we hear that the team never quits, then in the next sentence, we hear that some players don't want to be in this fight. Andersen says that the blame falls on his shoulders, then says that some players are refusing to learn what he's teaching them. Are we trying to honor the seniors by getting wins this season, or are we trying to get younger guys playing time? He said the other day that 30 years from now, we'll be honoring these seniors and that he's going to take care of them; yet he's said numerous times that the old guys need to get on the bus or they're going to be left behind. As a fan, it's frustrating to hear. As a player though, how on earth do they prepare week to week or know what's expected of them? I think you're incorrectly paraphrasing Andersen. The "Refusing to learn" was conditional--either they're not being coached correctly or they're refusing to learn. Either way the blame falls squarely between the eyes (on Andersen). Anyone who sees evasion in this is reaching. Also, I don't remember the "Look back in 30 years" quote being senior specific. My recollection is was more generic, having to do with the kids who bought in period. I don't remember him saying anything about taking care of seniors. I could be mistaken. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 10:59:54 GMT -8
We're 2-7. The fact that we had 38,000 at kickoff is fairly impressive, IMO. If you think Reser was empty yesterday, you should have watched the Utah-UW game. The endzones at Husky Stadium were completely empty save for the band. Losing + lousy weather makes for poor attendance (UW was even coming off a blowout win). I agree with you. Those moaning about attendance are also ignoring what the Pac-12's subservience to TV scheduling demands has done to in game attendance since that deal with the devil was signed. Winning is what it will take to put butts back in seats and it will be an uphill battle even at that because of the crappy scheduling that is indeterminate for the most part up until a week or two before a game. Face it, OSU FB has had a small die hard core that needs to be supplemented by casual fans who only get interested when winning creates some buzz around the team. Selling 38,000 tickets is damned impressive under current conditions.
IMHO, People not wetting their pants and going all negative on GA and his staff in the 1st year of re-building might help our cause, if only in a small way. In terms of W/L record this kind of season was in the cards even with no coaching change. It may not have been as ugly, since there would not have been a new system to transition to, and the transition involved in adapting players recruited to play the old system, to make them effective, if possible, in a different system.
Patience is needed. Respect the process. Norming and storming is taking place. As Coach said following this loss. The tough will survive, the weak won't. They will be told to "Put the Coffee Down".
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Post by spudbeaver on Nov 8, 2015 11:13:00 GMT -8
Might have sold 38,000 but no way was there that many at kickoff, or any time. In fact, the line to get in to the west side was the shortest and quickest I can remember. It was a miserable experience for those in attendance. Bad weather, bad football, bad deal.
Even with the small crowd I think it was interesting that before the game and after half time I had to kick people out of my seats. Go figure!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 11:31:02 GMT -8
Might have sold 38,000 but no way was there that many at kickoff, or any time. In fact, the line to get in to the west side was the shortest and quickest I can remember. It was a miserable experience for those in attendance. Bad weather, bad football, bad deal. Even with the small crowd I think it was interesting that before the game and after half time I had to kick people out of my seats. Go figure! They were just marking their territory. Hope you brought some 409 and paper towels with you. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 8, 2015 11:39:00 GMT -8
Patience... easy to have if you actually see evidence of words/matching action and a light at the end of the tunnel. So far there is nothing but contradictions, and I'm afraid it's going to get worse than the W/L record.
I'm one of the biggest voices of concern with this staff... I whole-heartedly admit it. However, my personal angst/concern in not born out of being a Riley supporter, Andersen hater, BUT from the evidence we have seen and heard so far this season. As of now Coach seems to be a used car salesman, and insultingly so, a lot of talk and a lot of contradiction in what is has actually happened on and off the field. I'm not going to go into detail, but the bottom line is we were a fairly bad PAC12 team last year and we did lose some key players... but take away the talent level argument, these coaches have in no way improved upon the former staff.
Evidence of such claims are total hearsay from the coaches themselves... huge improvements in the weight room, speed/agility, AND the classroom. Well, if there were so many gains we must have been light years away in talent level and Riley/staff were absolute magicians to win at all??? As far as I can tell the classroom performance/improvement in negligible statistically and could be attributed to a normal deviation coming from an influx of new kids and general improvement due to kids being in college a year longer and acclimating to college expectations.
The fan argument of waiting until a staff has their "own" players is ludicrous... these ARE his players... and in year 1 a staff generally has more adapting to current roster than the other way around. Recruiting these days is very very difficult, and to think you can replace not only the seniors, but also a group of disgruntled players encouraged or wanting to leave is program suicide. Part of being a great coach,, the area that maybe Riley depended on too much, is making average players better AND putting them in a position to succeed... whether it's the ultimate "system" you want to run or not.
As far as butts in the seats... too many variables to even discuss and something I never worry about. Game day atmosphere etc is just the voice of the very very slim minority... you make game day what you want it to be, and all of that is also in transition with a new AD/assistant AD's... why borrow worry over such things you can not control. Come or don't come. But, if you do make it a great day for you and your family somehow... don't depend on others to make it such... that is the "victim" mentality, always someone else's fault.
As far as our stadium/fans... I've always said Reser should be similar to a small market MLB stadium... first class, small/intimate/loud. Redo the west into a one level bowl with press boxes/premium boxes on a limited basis. Share the cost with academics by moving one or two departments underneath with classrooms, labs, retail outlets for the meats, cheeses, beers, wine, etc. Limit seating to 40-42k and make it a affordable BUT also a premium ticket to own. Our TV contract $$$ is not going to disappear and will only grow with other revenue streams and renewals.
Again, like with a coaching staff patience is needed, BUT there has to be the PLAN and a consistency in moving forward. I think with the new AD/staff that is their current focus and hopefully we will see the fruition in less than 5-6 years...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 11:58:33 GMT -8
I don't remember anything said about, "Huge improvements in the weight room, speed/agility." In what, four months? Have you ever lifted weights? These guys have been lifting since high school.
Its not the coach's job to accommodate his style, his personality, his system, to the players who are there already. I've never heard of a coach who even tried such a thing. More often than not, in fact far more often than not, makeovers are accompanied by a certain amount of player unhappiness and some players leaving. I don't know what has been going on in the locker room with this team. I heard rumors that all was not well in the locker room during the latter Riley years so it wouldn't surprise me if all is not well. If it takes a purge, so be it.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 8, 2015 12:11:43 GMT -8
A) you do not ready much in the off season... much was made of the improvement is our workouts/weight room;
B) you have never coached... as coaches new to a school regularly adjust their system/expectations early on whether at the HS or college or pro level. you think that Andersen is running the exact system on O and D he ultimately envisions?
C) you can't ask players to perform what is not possible for them to do... if they don't "get it" you can't run it... jack of all master of none is where we are now.
D) "our spread is run heavy... emphasis on a strong run game..." and we have averaged over 5 ypc in several games on very limited attempts in most cases. As yesterday showed, we had ample opportunities to run the ball right at UCLA with success and instead out the ball into the wet/damp hands of a QB not having a good day... and not a real running threat, especially after the success he had at Utah and UCLA having the week to adjust.
E) you're entirely welcome to you opinions... but, don't discount other's when you obviously have not been as current as some.
F) yes... I have lifted religiously and trained others... obviously another area you might not be an expert in... 4 months of intense training and the correct diet can lead to huge gains... just FYI
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