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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 9, 2015 9:06:07 GMT -8
PERFECT post... was change needed? Who knows... often times the grass is not greener and watching out what you wish for is relevant. BUT, change is here... why bash MR now? And, why is not the similar criticisms of MR (not related to talent) not acceptable of Andersen?
If turning around Utah State is even part of the your supportive argument for Coach A you might as well not post. That school, situation, type of talent is apples and oranges to OSU. Be supportive of the school who the current staff is... but, do not try to convince us people still in limbo about this staff/capabilities of a resume that simple is not what most want to make it out to be... do the research... oops, nabeav already did it for you.
There is nothing wrong with a little skepticism, evaluation, and questioning of what is going on... I'm sure the coaches are doing it, and so are their bosses!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 9:58:12 GMT -8
"why is not the similar criticisms of MR (not related to talent) not acceptable of Andersen?"
Criticize all you want. Just don't get your knickers in a wad if people criticize your criticism. MR is NOT coaching at OSU. MR doesn't matter anymore. What was left here when GA walked in the door was what it was. Not great. Not even mediocre. Blame MR for it or not. It was not good and it was the final state of the program when he left and he left with a lot of people rightly pissed about the direction of the program. MR had a very, very long leash. Headed for 3-9 most probably without adding in entirely changing systems. Not to mention a thoroughly mediocre offensive line from last year's pass heavy system is not thoroughly decimated with injuries. You can be on GA like white on rice over everything you perceive to be a misstep. My view is that people already nattering negatively aren't even giving him no leash, just a choke collar. GA is the coach. I don't like the losses or the manner of many of them. Mike Leach had more than one truly Sh!tty year in the course of resurrecting WSU. I think you'd have been on him part way through his 1st year too.
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 9, 2015 10:14:22 GMT -8
PERFECT post... was change needed? Who knows... I stopped reading right here.
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 9, 2015 10:17:46 GMT -8
Your bolded sentence is the absolute truth of why Riley is a mediocre coach. And by saying he's mediocre, I may actually be inflating his ego. The problem with this is that the next "game that matters" Gary Andersen wins will be his first. Unless you want to count a 2012 game when Utah State beat Louisiana Tech in overtime after leading 27-3 midway through the third quarter. In 2013, with a potential BCS at large bid on the line, Wisconsin lost to unranked Penn State at home in the final weekend. And I think his final game at Wisconsin has been covered before. I get that you are frustrated that Lance Mitchell couldn't stop Jeremiah Masoli on 4th down in 2009, or that he never beat Chip Kelly. Just a reminder that not many people did beat Chip Kelly. Seven times he lost in four years. Only 3 Pac-12 games - two to Stanford and one to USC. If you want to knock Riley for play calling, recruiting, staff decisions, etc. I can accept that. But to say he "never won games that matter" seems a bit of a stretch. I'd say beating USC on that Thursday night mattered. I'd say beating Cal at Cal when they were #2 in the country mattered. The decision to go for 2 vs. Missouri in the Sun Bowl mattered. The 1998 Civil War mattered. How about beating Oregon in Eugene in 2007 when Yvenson Bernard was injured? Did that matter? Again, it makes no sense to me why the prevailing theory on this board is that Mike Riley prevented us from getting to a Rose Bowl rather than being viewed as the guy who made 8-5 no longer acceptable. When was Riley last sniffing around 8-5? 2012? What about before that? 2009? Your Cal game and the Sun Bowl were what, 2007 and 2006? What year are we in? I'll even give him the 3-0 Sun Bowl over Pitt in 2008. Coaches all over the country get fired for this kind of incompetence, this time it was Riley who left and saved OSU a ton of money. HIP HIP!
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 9, 2015 10:20:43 GMT -8
There is the creeper again! Does he ever read his own ridiculous lack of arguments??? Fish truly bites at everything...
And.. if you think this year makes Leach a quality coach, you have proven your idiocy! WSU has won despite Leach... your football acumen is really quite interesting to read.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 9, 2015 10:26:52 GMT -8
damn... forget to use the "quote" link... pdxorange has me all flustered looking out my window for creepers! LOL
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 9, 2015 10:38:39 GMT -8
"why is not the similar criticisms of MR (not related to talent) not acceptable of Andersen?" Criticize all you want. Just don't get your knickers in a wad if people criticize your criticism. MR is NOT coaching at OSU. MR doesn't matter anymore. What was left here when GA walked in the door was what it was. Not great. Not even mediocre. Blame MR for it or not. It was not good and it was the final state of the program when he left and he left with a lot of people rightly pissed about the direction of the program. MR had a very, very long leash. Headed for 3-9 most probably without adding in entirely changing systems. Not to mention a thoroughly mediocre offensive line from last year's pass heavy system is not thoroughly decimated with injuries. You can be on GA like white on rice over everything you perceive to be a misstep. My view is that people already nattering negatively aren't even giving him no leash, just a choke collar. GA is the coach. I don't like the losses or the manner of many of them. Mike Leach had more than one truly Sh!tty year in the course of resurrecting WSU. I think you'd have been on him part way through his 1st year too. I am not on GA to get out of there... but his is a horsepoop argument to try and say Riley left the cupboards bare and that is why we suck. We lost a lot on defense, I will give you that, but we returned (or would of returned) nearly everybody on offense, including Del Rio that HAD thrown some balls, and quite frankly was pretty good at it. GA came in, ran Del Rio out of town (I'd like to know the story on that...) and in a race of 7 potential QB candidates, have tried 3 in games that seemingly cannot complete a forward pass. He took a defense entirely recruited to run a banker 4-3 and switched to a 3-4 despite having NOBODY on the team that even sort of resembles a 2 gap NT. not even close. He took our other DT beef and made them shed weight to be edge rushers. What makes zero sense to me, is Baldwin's last stop at Colorado St, he orchestrated a fantastic offense (granted he had a 3rd round QB at the helm) that was the PERFECT transition offense for us to run. a shotgun spread passing attack. our pass blocking line, Del Rio (a guy with a decent arm) and our WR and that is an offense that probably moves the ball. Instead, GA forces the issue by demanding a read option attack with unsuitable personnel. I just don't get it. He made his bed. he needs to lie in it. that has nothing to do with Riley and everything to do with GA and his decisions. Nothing about this offense, or this playcalling this year makes sense. when you bring in a change of guard that makes you fall to your knees and beg for Langsdorf back, you know you are doing it wrong. I get GA wants to change some culture, change some schemes and change some philosophy. and I get that you have to break some eggs to make an omlete. but I don't think you need to start a dumpster fire to do it.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 9, 2015 10:50:12 GMT -8
The problem with this is that the next "game that matters" Gary Andersen wins will be his first. Unless you want to count a 2012 game when Utah State beat Louisiana Tech in overtime after leading 27-3 midway through the third quarter. In 2013, with a potential BCS at large bid on the line, Wisconsin lost to unranked Penn State at home in the final weekend. And I think his final game at Wisconsin has been covered before. I get that you are frustrated that Lance Mitchell couldn't stop Jeremiah Masoli on 4th down in 2009, or that he never beat Chip Kelly. Just a reminder that not many people did beat Chip Kelly. Seven times he lost in four years. Only 3 Pac-12 games - two to Stanford and one to USC. If you want to knock Riley for play calling, recruiting, staff decisions, etc. I can accept that. But to say he "never won games that matter" seems a bit of a stretch. I'd say beating USC on that Thursday night mattered. I'd say beating Cal at Cal when they were #2 in the country mattered. The decision to go for 2 vs. Missouri in the Sun Bowl mattered. The 1998 Civil War mattered. How about beating Oregon in Eugene in 2007 when Yvenson Bernard was injured? Did that matter? Again, it makes no sense to me why the prevailing theory on this board is that Mike Riley prevented us from getting to a Rose Bowl rather than being viewed as the guy who made 8-5 no longer acceptable. When was Riley last sniffing around 8-5? 2012? What about before that? 2009? Your Cal game and the Sun Bowl were what, 2007 and 2006? What year are we in? I'll even give him the 3-0 Sun Bowl over Pitt in 2008. Coaches all over the country get fired for this kind of incompetence, this time it was Riley who left and saved OSU a ton of money. HIP HIP! Awww. its adorable you want to spend so much effort trashing a coach that at least has won some conference games... The quality of a coach is measured in many ways. Yes wins and losses are very important. So is character, his representation of the school and his graduation rate among other things. Coaches are also products of their resources. It is no small secret that BDC and Prez Ray ceased to increase support in football in 2009. After raising reser, there were no substantive improvements for football whatsoever. Everything that came after was sports-wide improvement. BDC, the forever bean counter, used 2006-2009 success to fund other sports and left football to start falling behind more and more each year. BDC was okay with 8 wins and a bowl every year and assumed with steady state funding and no facility improvements, and 10th out of 12th recruiting budget that Riley would keep bringing in 8 wins. Oregon State got less and less sexy every year as everybody from Cal to Stanford to WSU launched major upgrades, dumped major cash and put purposeful effort into the football team. I think it was time for Riley to move on. The mojo was lost. and it at least gave Ray and BDC the kick in the ball sacks they needed to focus on football again, go after some donors, pay big-boy cash to a coach and assistants and then launch an facilities upgrade. But anybody that wants to spend time trashing on a guy like Riley, that by all measures is an upstanding human being that did many good things at OSU is a sad sack. really. So sorry his great crime in life is struggle down the stretch with wins... it must of been a tremendous blow to your fragile ego.
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Post by nabeav on Nov 9, 2015 10:54:07 GMT -8
Coaches all over the country get fired for this kind of incompetence, this time it was Riley who left and saved OSU a ton of money. HIP HIP! You're completely wrong, and I'm going to tell you why. I'm in complete agreement that a change needed to be made. 2013 and 2014 were not great seasons at all. But when you can explain to me how a coach making $1.5M a year (lowest in the Pac-12 and well below market value) leaving saved us money, you're just not making any sense. I assume you're alluding to his buy-out that would've had to have been paid had we fired him. At that point, he would have been under contract for six more seasons, which would've put OSU on the hook for about $9M. That's the number assuming nobody else came to pick him up and he straight up retired, as these buyouts are reduced by the amount of salary earned at future jobs. If you want to add in the $500K we got from Nebraska for him to leave willingly, that's $9.5M. OSU then went out and hired a coach at market value - $2.5M per year, plus whatever increases assistant coaches got. Sitake was offered $800K to stay at Utah, you have to imagine that his salary here is somewhere in that neighborhood. Banker was paid just over $500K. So assume that across the board, assistant coaches are paid roughly $500K more than the previous staff combined. So that's $1.5M more per year OSU is paying out....exactly the same amout they would have paid Riley per year had they fired him. And that doesn't factor in the $3M buyout for bringing Andersen on board. Athletic Directors have two things at their disposal when trying to convince coaches to come or stay at their university - length of contract and $$$. BDC decided to push job security (he did this over and over - Riley, Jay John, Craig Robinson, LaVonda Wagner, Scott Rueck.) Sometimes it worked, other times it didn't. But his logic was sound in my book - OSU had relatively stagnant income from donations, and the new TV money had to be used to pay for much needed infrastructure improvements, buying out of old media deals, and paying back the University. Simply put, he didn't have the $$$ to offer short term contracts. So no, there's no way Riley leaving saved us money. Only way that would've happened is if we had gone out and hired a sub-par coach - a coordinator with no head coaching experience or a lower level coach that had never proved it at the Power 5 conference level.
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 9, 2015 11:20:17 GMT -8
Coaches all over the country get fired for this kind of incompetence, this time it was Riley who left and saved OSU a ton of money. HIP HIP! You're completely wrong, and I'm going to tell you why. I'm in complete agreement that a change needed to be made. 2013 and 2014 were not great seasons at all. But when you can explain to me how a coach making $1.5M a year (lowest in the Pac-12 and well below market value) leaving saved us money, you're just not making any sense. I assume you're alluding to his buy-out that would've had to have been paid had we fired him. At that point, he would have been under contract for six more seasons, which would've put OSU on the hook for about $9M. That's the number assuming nobody else came to pick him up and he straight up retired, as these buyouts are reduced by the amount of salary earned at future jobs. If you want to add in the $500K we got from Nebraska for him to leave willingly, that's $9.5M. OSU then went out and hired a coach at market value - $2.5M per year, plus whatever increases assistant coaches got. Sitake was offered $800K to stay at Utah, you have to imagine that his salary here is somewhere in that neighborhood. Banker was paid just over $500K. So assume that across the board, assistant coaches are paid roughly $500K more than the previous staff combined. So that's $1.5M more per year OSU is paying out....exactly the same amout they would have paid Riley per year had they fired him. And that doesn't factor in the $3M buyout for bringing Andersen on board. Athletic Directors have two things at their disposal when trying to convince coaches to come or stay at their university - length of contract and $$$. BDC decided to push job security (he did this over and over - Riley, Jay John, Craig Robinson, LaVonda Wagner, Scott Rueck.) Sometimes it worked, other times it didn't. But his logic was sound in my book - OSU had relatively stagnant income from donations, and the new TV money had to be used to pay for much needed infrastructure improvements, buying out of old media deals, and paying back the University. Simply put, he didn't have the $$$ to offer short term contracts. So no, there's no way Riley leaving saved us money. Only way that would've happened is if we had gone out and hired a sub-par coach - a coordinator with no head coaching experience or a lower level coach that had never proved it at the Power 5 conference level. lol, Your whole first paragraph is how OSU saved money. Look what side of the fence you're on, versus what side you really think you're on.
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 9, 2015 11:22:41 GMT -8
When was Riley last sniffing around 8-5? 2012? What about before that? 2009? Your Cal game and the Sun Bowl were what, 2007 and 2006? What year are we in? I'll even give him the 3-0 Sun Bowl over Pitt in 2008. Coaches all over the country get fired for this kind of incompetence, this time it was Riley who left and saved OSU a ton of money. HIP HIP! Awww. its adorable you want to spend so much effort trashing a coach that at least has won some conference games... The quality of a coach is measured in many ways. Yes wins and losses are very important. So is character, his representation of the school and his graduation rate among other things. Coaches are also products of their resources. It is no small secret that BDC and Prez Ray ceased to increase support in football in 2009. After raising reser, there were no substantive improvements for football whatsoever. Everything that came after was sports-wide improvement. BDC, the forever bean counter, used 2006-2009 success to fund other sports and left football to start falling behind more and more each year. BDC was okay with 8 wins and a bowl every year and assumed with steady state funding and no facility improvements, and 10th out of 12th recruiting budget that Riley would keep bringing in 8 wins. Oregon State got less and less sexy every year as everybody from Cal to Stanford to WSU launched major upgrades, dumped major cash and put purposeful effort into the football team. I think it was time for Riley to move on. The mojo was lost. and it at least gave Ray and BDC the kick in the ball sacks they needed to focus on football again, go after some donors, pay big-boy cash to a coach and assistants and then launch an facilities upgrade. But anybody that wants to spend time trashing on a guy like Riley, that by all measures is an upstanding human being that did many good things at OSU is a sad sack. really. So sorry his great crime in life is struggle down the stretch with wins... it must of been a tremendous blow to your fragile ego. lol, this isn't beaverfootball.com dude A coach that has won conference games, well hell we should give Gary at least 12 years before we can compare him as even or worse than Riley There's plenty of nice guy coaches out there who haven't won squat, Riley is in that group. Let's just put all of those Sun Bowl trophies up on the pedestal, yee haw! The future is much brighter at OSU than it is at Nebraska, even with their win over Meat-chicken State.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 9, 2015 11:45:08 GMT -8
Awww. its adorable you want to spend so much effort trashing a coach that at least has won some conference games... The quality of a coach is measured in many ways. Yes wins and losses are very important. So is character, his representation of the school and his graduation rate among other things. Coaches are also products of their resources. It is no small secret that BDC and Prez Ray ceased to increase support in football in 2009. After raising reser, there were no substantive improvements for football whatsoever. Everything that came after was sports-wide improvement. BDC, the forever bean counter, used 2006-2009 success to fund other sports and left football to start falling behind more and more each year. BDC was okay with 8 wins and a bowl every year and assumed with steady state funding and no facility improvements, and 10th out of 12th recruiting budget that Riley would keep bringing in 8 wins. Oregon State got less and less sexy every year as everybody from Cal to Stanford to WSU launched major upgrades, dumped major cash and put purposeful effort into the football team. I think it was time for Riley to move on. The mojo was lost. and it at least gave Ray and BDC the kick in the ball sacks they needed to focus on football again, go after some donors, pay big-boy cash to a coach and assistants and then launch an facilities upgrade. But anybody that wants to spend time trashing on a guy like Riley, that by all measures is an upstanding human being that did many good things at OSU is a sad sack. really. So sorry his great crime in life is struggle down the stretch with wins... it must of been a tremendous blow to your fragile ego. lol, this isn't beaverfootball.com dude A coach that has won conference games, well hell we should give Gary at least 12 years before we can compare him as even or worse than Riley There's plenty of nice guy coaches out there who haven't won squat, Riley is in that group. Let's just put all of those Sun Bowl trophies up on the pedestal, yee haw! The future is much brighter at OSU than it is at Nebraska, even with their win over Meat-chicken State. Brighter??? How's that? Cuz you're a Beaver fan and it is automatically so??? Where is the evidence Nebraska's future is going nowhere and ours is assuredly upward bound??? Be A MR hater all you want but your post lacks any cred... Coach can have 2-3 great recruiting classes to even come close to the athletes Nebraska currently has and that's before MR began branching out the recruiting reach. In the past Nebraska depended on all the 4/5* talent from surrounding states heading there way. Well, it's not the case these days. The same arguments people have for Coach A's future apply for MR is Nebraska... he is invigorated and will bring in his guys.
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Post by nabeav on Nov 9, 2015 11:50:02 GMT -8
lol, Your whole first paragraph is how OSU saved money. Look what side of the fence you're on, versus what side you really think you're on. Is OSU saving money compared to having to fire him? Had OSU fired him after last season, Nebraska still would've come calling. Had OSU fired him after this season, someone else would've come calling, and probably paid him as much or more than what was owed him, thereby letting OSU off the hook again. The amount paid for the new staff ate up any proposed savings you seem to think are there. Only way this was going to pencil out as a savings was to hire the lowest paid coach in the conference. So yes, had OSU hired a budget coach, they'd be saving money. But they didn't. They increased expenses by as much or more than those savings. It's like saying that trading in your old iPhone for $100 saved you $100 of a $600 iPhone. You're still out $500 that you could've kept in your pocket and still had a phone that worked reasonably well, only wasn't quite as shiny and didn't take moving pictures, which last time I checked were called videos.
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 9, 2015 12:01:58 GMT -8
lol, this isn't beaverfootball.com dude A coach that has won conference games, well hell we should give Gary at least 12 years before we can compare him as even or worse than Riley There's plenty of nice guy coaches out there who haven't won squat, Riley is in that group. Let's just put all of those Sun Bowl trophies up on the pedestal, yee haw! The future is much brighter at OSU than it is at Nebraska, even with their win over Meat-chicken State. Brighter??? How's that? Cuz you're a Beaver fan and it is automatically so??? Where is the evidence Nebraska's future is going nowhere and ours is assuredly upward bound??? Be A MR hater all you want but your post lacks any cred... Coach can have 2-3 great recruiting classes to even come close to the athletes Nebraska currently has and that's before MR began branching out the recruiting reach. In the past Nebraska depended on all the 4/5* talent from surrounding states heading there way. Well, it's not the case these days. The same arguments people have for Coach A's future apply for MR is Nebraska... he is invigorated and will bring in his guys. One will be at his current job longer than the other...you can figure out which one is which.
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Nov 9, 2015 12:03:55 GMT -8
Is OSU saving money compared to having to fire him? Had OSU fired him after last season, Nebraska still would've come calling. Had OSU fired him after this season, someone else would've come calling, and probably paid him as much or more than what was owed him, thereby letting OSU off the hook again. The amount paid for the new staff ate up any proposed savings you seem to think are there. Only way this was going to pencil out as a savings was to hire the lowest paid coach in the conference. So yes, had OSU hired a budget coach, they'd be saving money. But they didn't. They increased expenses by as much or more than those savings. It's like saying that trading in your old iPhone for $100 saved you $100 of a $600 iPhone. You're still out $500 that you could've kept in your pocket and still had a phone that worked reasonably well, only wasn't quite as shiny and didn't take moving pictures, which last time I checked were called videos. Yes, and if OSU let him go and gave him a settlement (whatever that figure is), the Nebraska job wouldn't have had any financial repercussions for Riley because he would have double dipped. Riley leaving OSU took that 5-6 years off the books and allowed OSU to spend that money NOW instead of later. Please tell me you didn't get a business degree. And "reasonably" well, I think your definition of that phrase is much different than mine.
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