|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on May 15, 2023 13:37:17 GMT -8
17th in Baseball America. 18th in the Baseball Coaches Poll. 18th in Collegiate Baseball Newspaper. D1 Baseball seems to be in the minority. If RPI were not a thing, Oregon State would be squarely in the hosting conversation. But four games against Coppin State and Minnesota and the split with Nevada and New Mexico continues to weigh down RPI like an anchor. 24-7 after a miserable 12-8 start. This is one of the problems with RPI, in my opinion. Scheduling a school like Coppin State shouldn't be a punishment as it is beneficial to both programs in different ways and good for the sport in general.
I'm not advocating for filling up a schedule with paper tigers, but a limited number of weak out-of-conference opponents should not affect RPI, especially if you win.
I 100% agree with you. Playing Coppin State should not hurt your RPI. Most actual rankings are set up so that wins do not hurt you. RPI ignores this completely. And it sucks that it hammers a HBCU like Coppin State. There is something very unfair about Coppin State having poor facilities and history, because of historical and systematic racism and then to get hosed by the systematically racist RPI, because of their terrible facilities and history. And then RPI turns around and rewards the historically racist schools of the ACC and SEC. Such a terribly unfair system! Having said that, everyone else understands that RPI is a game and rigs the system to their advantage. The nonconference team with the next-highest RPI that Coppin State played was Georgetown with an RPI of 154. (And Georgetown only played Coppin State once.) UMBC (RPI 172) played Coppin State in a midweek home-and-home. VMI (RPI 230) is the nonconference team with the next-highest RPI, who played three against Coppin State. Teams that have aspirations to make the Tournament or host a Regional or Super Regional avoid Coppin State like the plague, because of RPI. Oregon State, on the other hand, is dumb enough to repeat the 2015 mistake of scheduling an RPI anchor like Coppin State (Grambling in 2015). And then everyone gets upset that Oregon State is not hosting. And it is all because of naively stupid scheduling. Unless the Selection Committee is smart enough to fix this this year, teams like Coppin State will continue to be avoided. And that should not happen. There should be no kind of racial baseball caste system. There has to be a better and more fair way to easily compare what a team has accomplished over a season than RPI. That needs to start this year. Enough of this! I am going to take my soapbox and go elsewhere. I talk about RPI, because it tends to weigh heavily on Committees, but it is a truly awful and unfair system. |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on May 15, 2023 13:38:32 GMT -8
Baseball America ranks the Beavers 17th this week but in their weekly "Eight for Omaha" list - forecasting the NC Field, we are included! I think the way the team has come together, it's a very real possibility. We, of course, will need to be firing on all cylinders. We need Sellers to get over his funk and find a way to be productive. And we need Bazz to stay hot at lead off, and Micah too. It'll be nice to get Peterson back and maybe Turley is making progress.
Hell, if Dernedde stays hot, we're gonna win it all!
|
|
|
|
Post by irimi on May 15, 2023 13:43:16 GMT -8
This is one of the problems with RPI, in my opinion. Scheduling a school like Coppin State shouldn't be a punishment as it is beneficial to both programs in different ways and good for the sport in general.
I'm not advocating for filling up a schedule with paper tigers, but a limited number of weak out-of-conference opponents should not affect RPI, especially if you win.
I 100% agree with you. Playing Coppin State should not hurt your RPI. Most actual rankings are set up so that wins do not hurt you. RPI ignores this completely. And it sucks that it hammers a HBCU like Coppin State. There is something very unfair about Coppin State having poor facilities and history, because of historical and systematic racism and then to get hosed by the systematically racist RPI, because of their terrible facilities and history. And then RPI turns around and rewards the historically racist schools of the ACC and SEC. Such a terribly unfair system! Having said that, everyone else understands that RPI is a game and rigs the system to their advantage. The nonconference team with the next-highest RPI that Coppin State played was Georgetown with an RPI of 154. (And Georgetown only played Coppin State once.) UMBC (RPI 172) played Coppin State in a midweek home-and-home. VMI (RPI 230) is the nonconference team with the next-highest RPI, who played three against Coppin State. Teams that have aspirations to make the Tournament or host a Regional or Super Regional avoid Coppin State like the plague, because of RPI. Oregon State, on the other hand, is dumb enough to repeat the 2015 mistake of scheduling an RPI anchor like Coppin State (Grambling in 2015). And then everyone gets upset that Oregon State is not hosting. And it is all because of naively stupid scheduling. Unless the Selection Committee is smart enough to fix this this year, teams like Coppin State will continue to be avoided. And that should not happen. There should be no kind of racial baseball caste system. There has to be a better and more fair way to easily compare what a team has accomplished over a season than RPI. That needs to start this year. Enough of this! I am going to take my soapbox and go elsewhere. I talk about RPI, because it tends to weigh heavily on Committees, but it is a truly awful and unfair system. Thanks for that education. I had never heard of Coppin State and I couldn't tell you where it is located to be honest, so I appreciate the social studies/history lesson.
Stay on your soapbox. It's not very often that the Coppin States of the world get an advocate fighting for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on May 15, 2023 14:52:00 GMT -8
The only thing about RPI regarding baseball is that scheduling is far more year to year. No long term home and away commitments that are written in stone/unbreakable.
A coaching staff and AD can truly influence the baseball RPI in their schedule making. You know it's part of the system. You can clearly see the last couple seasons and program history.
If I was in the room making out the '23 schedule I may have made a similar one, but with more western, mid level RPI teams.
As with the roster losses, inexperience, and question marks 16-14 to 18-12 was a good base for conference play. The key was to get 20+ NC wins.
They'll get that (they better!), just not vs a great schedule. That will hurt when it comes down to a mid major champ with more wins vs higher RPI teams. Or a high ranking ACC/SEC team. Especially if a 3rd place Pac12 finish doesn't lead to Pac12 title game.
Honestly, don't see how a committee can not give (2) Pac12 host!
Best guess:
SEC 7 hosts/9+ teams in
ACC 6 hosts/7+ teams in
Pac 2 hosts/4-5 teams in
?? 1 mid-major host
|
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on May 15, 2023 16:15:10 GMT -8
The only thing about RPI regarding baseball is that scheduling is far more year to year. No long term home and away commitments that are written in stone/unbreakable. A coaching staff and AD can truly influence the baseball RPI in their schedule making. You know it's part of the system. You can clearly see the last couple seasons and program history. If I was in the room making out the '23 schedule I may have made a similar one, but with more western, mid level RPI teams. As with the roster losses, inexperience, and question marks 16-14 to 18-12 was a good base for conference play. The key was to get 20+ NC wins. They'll get that (they better!), just not vs a great schedule. That will hurt when it comes down to a mid major champ with more wins vs higher RPI teams. Or a high ranking ACC/SEC team. Especially if a 3rd place Pac12 finish doesn't lead to Pac12 title game. Honestly, don't see how a committee can not give (2) Pac12 host! Best guess: SEC 7 hosts/9+ teams in ACC 6 hosts/7+ teams in Pac 2 hosts/4-5 teams in ?? 1 mid-major host I cannot see either the SEC or ACC getting seven host spots. That is ridiculous. They may both take six, but seven would be crazy. The Big 12 will soak up at least one spot. The Pac-12 will soak up one spot. Coastal Carolina looks like a solid host, as well. It basically comes down to ACC #6, Big 12 #2, Pac-12 #2, and the mid-majors with an RPI between 10-25 like Indiana State, Dallas Baptist, East Carolina, Campbell, and Connecticut. There are two hosts total in that bunch. So the question becomes: Is Oregon State one of the top two teams in that bunch? |
|
|
|
Post by osubeaver2018 on May 15, 2023 17:35:10 GMT -8
RPI does play a role for sure, but West coast teams typically get more of a break when hosting even if their RPI is a little lower. RPI has some known bias against west coast teams mainly because of the travel distance between teams. It is just harder, for NW teams in particular, to schedule high RPI teams in the West. Teams in South, can play multiple games against multiple SEC teams, and win or lose those teams get an inflation of the RPI just for playing those teams. LSU playing a road match at Louisiana Lafeyette is a little different than Washington traveling over 1k miles to play Cal Poly. NW schools are limited to playing Gonzaga, Seattle, Portland and to a lesser extent Nevada without traveling a long distance. RPI for baseball needs some work. First, they need to remove the large bump or drop in rankings for merely playing someone with a lower RPI. You shouldn't get a jump in RPI if you don't win these games, and conversely you shouldn't drop in RPI if you win against a low RPI team. I would also like to have a slightly different weight for mid-week games vs. weekend games. Teams that lose games with their 4th or 5th starter, shouldn't be penalized the same if losing a game with one of your primary starters. With that being said, I still think Beavs are in play to host. I give it 50/50. 2nd place in Pac-12 does have some weight beyond RPI. Well probably 3rd place, but 2nd place team is significantly lower RPI and lost the head to head with OSU. I believe some of the issues you state in here are why basketball abandoned RPI for the NET rankings a few years ago. The NET rankings, while still imperfect, take into account record and SOS like RPI but also include offensive/defensive efficiency and to a certain degree, margin of victory. It makes them a little more volatile early in the season (RPI is too), but is probably more accurate at the end of the year than RPI typically is.
It'll be interesting to see if baseball ever adopts a similar model, however I have a feeling that would be a long way out. Maybe if college baseball gets more of a national following than just the southeast and a few exceptions such as OSU that will get the ball moving faster there. For now though, just keep winning. I would be very surprised if the committee passes up a 40+ win OSU team just off the number of wins and name brand alone. But then again... we've been shafted worse than that in the past...
|
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on May 15, 2023 17:49:59 GMT -8
The only thing about RPI regarding baseball is that scheduling is far more year to year. No long term home and away commitments that are written in stone/unbreakable. A coaching staff and AD can truly influence the baseball RPI in their schedule making. You know it's part of the system. You can clearly see the last couple seasons and program history. If I was in the room making out the '23 schedule I may have made a similar one, but with more western, mid level RPI teams. As with the roster losses, inexperience, and question marks 16-14 to 18-12 was a good base for conference play. The key was to get 20+ NC wins. They'll get that (they better!), just not vs a great schedule. That will hurt when it comes down to a mid major champ with more wins vs higher RPI teams. Or a high ranking ACC/SEC team. Especially if a 3rd place Pac12 finish doesn't lead to Pac12 title game. Honestly, don't see how a committee can not give (2) Pac12 host! Best guess: SEC 7 hosts/9+ teams in ACC 6 hosts/7+ teams in Pac 2 hosts/4-5 teams in ?? 1 mid-major host I cannot see either the SEC or ACC getting seven host spots. That is ridiculous. They may both take six, but seven would be crazy. The Big 12 will soak up at least one spot. The Pac-12 will soak up one spot. Coastal Carolina looks like a solid host, as well. It basically comes down to ACC #6, Big 12 #2, Pac-12 #2, and the mid-majors with an RPI between 10-25 like Indiana State, Dallas Baptist, East Carolina, Campbell, and Connecticut. There are two hosts total in that bunch. So the question becomes: Is Oregon State one of the top two teams in that bunch? Forgot the easily forgettable B12! |
|
|
|
Post by avidbeaver on May 15, 2023 19:58:32 GMT -8
Surely the 10th ranked team has to host. The Beavers put themselves in a bad position with the start to the conference schedule. Trying to play catch up. Margin for error is gone. Have to win the last four games plus make a serious run at the conference tournament. If they win the tournament then they will host. Anything less or a quick exit will probably not be enough. |
|
|
|
Post by flyfishinbeav on May 15, 2023 20:09:58 GMT -8
It's interesting that D1 has the Beavs @ 10 and the rest of the pubs have em around 18ish.....D1 had em unranked to start the season, while rest of pubs had em ranked, iirc.
I trust D1 the most, especially when it comes to west coast. I think they cover out here the best.
|
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on May 15, 2023 20:28:24 GMT -8
It's interesting that D1 has the Beavs @ 10 and the rest of the pubs have em around 18ish.....D1 had em unranked to start the season, while rest of pubs had em ranked, iirc. I trust D1 the most, especially when it comes to west coast. I think they cover out here the best. Baseball America had Oregon State the highest at 18. Perfect Game had Oregon State at 23. I do not think that the other major polls ranked Oregon State in the top 25. Perfect Game, the worst of the polls, still has Oregon State unranked. Solely because Oregon State is ranked highest in D1, D1 is obviously the best website for ranking the Beavs. |
|
|
|
Post by flyfishinbeav on May 15, 2023 20:50:17 GMT -8
It's interesting that D1 has the Beavs @ 10 and the rest of the pubs have em around 18ish.....D1 had em unranked to start the season, while rest of pubs had em ranked, iirc. I trust D1 the most, especially when it comes to west coast. I think they cover out here the best. Baseball America had Oregon State the highest at 18. Perfect Game had Oregon State at 23. I do not think that the other major polls ranked Oregon State in the top 25. Perfect Game, the worst of the polls, still has Oregon State unranked. Solely because Oregon State is ranked highest in D1, D1 is obviously the best website for ranking the Beavs. I'm not sure if we deserve #10, but unranked? |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on May 15, 2023 21:01:10 GMT -8
Baseball America had Oregon State the highest at 18. Perfect Game had Oregon State at 23. I do not think that the other major polls ranked Oregon State in the top 25. Perfect Game, the worst of the polls, still has Oregon State unranked. Solely because Oregon State is ranked highest in D1, D1 is obviously the best website for ranking the Beavs. I'm not sure if we deserve #10, but unranked? Oregon State is one of five teams listed as "Also Considered." |
|
