|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 19, 2023 13:24:04 GMT -8
Bad passes, bad catching, bad route running, poor blocking, great D effort, bad play calling can all cause an incompletion or interception, but the QB generally gets the blame for the 5 that weren't his fault. Which five? I think that there might have been one interception in the USC and Utah games that was not 100% Nolan's fault. Otherwise, they were bad balls, bad reads, or both. Chance Nolan sucked. I just tooled through the old threads because irimi said to, and I forgot half the stuff that pissed me off about Nolan in the moment. CN is leaving, because he is inferior to BG. Great for Oregon State. It opens up a schollie. |
|
|
|
Post by orangeattack on Apr 19, 2023 13:28:29 GMT -8
If less than optimum spirals affected catching a football in a negative way our current head coach would have never seen the field when he played. ok style of play comes into effect here but am I seriously the only one who remembers Smitty being extremely maligned for having a sub 50% career completion ratio until well into his senior season? The only thing that fans complained about more than his wobbly spiral and accuracy was the way he "turtled" when taking a sack. Short and had lots of balls batted down. Had to have the OL create "passing lanes" which made the offense less effective. Slow. I can go on and on. Don't act like there were no criticisms of Smitty, because they were many both before and after the Fiesta Bowl. TB was still taking starting snaps in 99 and his accuracy, mobility, and catchability were all markedly better than Smiths. Which didn't matter because Smith was an infinitely better field general, and time will only tell but maybe Nolan is/was too. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 19, 2023 13:33:11 GMT -8
Bad passes, bad catching, bad route running, poor blocking, great D effort, bad play calling can all cause an incompletion or interception, but the QB generally gets the blame for the 5 that weren't his fault. Which five? I think that there might have been one interception in the USC and Utah games that was not 100% Nolan's fault. Otherwise, they were bad balls, bad reads, or both. Chance Nolan sucked. I just tooled through the old threads because irimi said to, and I forgot half the stuff that pissed me off about Nolan in the moment. CN is leaving, because he is inferior to BG. Great for Oregon State. It opens up a schollie. My guess is DJU, who can probably throw a ball 50-70 yards while sitting on his ass, will get the nod to start, if not the first game he'll get it by the time conference play starts. He'll be asked to do things BG isn't, and as soon as he has a multiple int game or completes below 55-60% the critics will come out and we can rehash this all again. |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Apr 19, 2023 13:38:07 GMT -8
If less than optimum spirals affected catching a football in a negative way our current head coach would have never seen the field when he played. ok style of play comes into effect here but am I seriously the only one who remembers Smitty being extremely maligned for having a sub 50% career completion ratio until well into his senior season? The only thing that fans complained about more than his wobbly spiral and accuracy was the way he "turtled" when taking a sack. Short and had lots of balls batted down. Had to have the OL create "passing lanes" which made the offense less effective. Slow. I can go on and on. Don't act like there were no criticisms of Smitty, because they were many both before and after the Fiesta Bowl. TB was still taking starting snaps in 99 and his accuracy, mobility, and catchability were all markedly better than Smiths. Which didn't matter because Smith was an infinitely better field general, and time will only tell but maybe Nolan is/was too. JS received plenty of criticism back then. His strength was that he took care of the ball and didn't throw many picks (although that increased in 2001). There were plenty of critics that wanted him benched for DA in his senior year. He throw a lot of wounded ducks, but he also completed a lot of long balls. DE's offense asked him to throw a lot more deep balls than some of the offenses that our other QB's were in....that also decreased his completion percentage. |
|
|
|
Post by orangeattack on Apr 19, 2023 13:48:18 GMT -8
Go back to the early game threads in the year and see how many of those drops hit the receivers right in the hands. And I still argue that interceptions is a dangerous stat to draw any significance from. tipped passes or receivers running the wrong route can elevate that statistic without being the fault of the QB. I also know that we often focus on the one player on the field, in this case the QB, without considering any of the other moving parts and pieces. Chance got a bum rap from some fans here starting the week he was appointed starting quarterback. Yet he took us to our first bowl game in a number of years. I'm not saying that you have to be in tears now that he's gone, but do you have to kick him in the ass on his way out? Show a little respect for the men who wore Orange and Black. Some random threads: Official Fresno State Thread. Pages 49 on are what you are looking for. You can respond to what I posted there, if you would like. I hated on Nolan's footwork and how his upper body started to go before his lower body was set. I go through all of the "drops" and point out how each one was either not a drop, was tipped, was actually interference, or how Nolan managed to screw it up. Official USC Thread. You were huge pro-Nolan. I was anti-, but I also knew nothing about BG, so I stupidly said that we should give Nolan another chance against Utah. I also was hoping that Musgrave came back to make the offense work better. The Bench Nolan Thread after the Utah game.Another similar thread.An early Gulbranson thread.A final Gulbranson-Nolan discussion after the loss to Washington.After watching BG the whole year, I don't know how CN won the job. That never should have happened. Like looking back at 2010 and realizing that Katz had no business beating out Vaz. BG was pretty superior to CN in every meaningful way. The fact that this continues to come up is galling. Bye Chance! Our hats our off to you! Thanks for the memories in 2021! I hope that you find success in your future endeavors! This was kind of fascinating to go back and read our live-time discussion from the games and compare it to how we feel now. I'd argue that our (you, wilky, and me, oa, specifically) respective positions are remarkably consistent. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Apr 19, 2023 13:55:38 GMT -8
Terrance Bryant did not start a game in 1999. The only game he received substantial PT was @ USC, when he came in in the second half and had a good game. Otherwise he was the backup for the entire season.
Nolan had the uncanny ability to completely not see wide-open receivers on wheel routes. And the longer his career went on, the more reluctant he was to run, even with yards and yards of wide-open field in front of him.
Good luck to him. We will be better at QB this year than last.
|
|
|
|
Post by orangeattack on Apr 19, 2023 14:33:47 GMT -8
Terrance Bryant did not start a game in 1999. The only game he received substantial PT was @ USC, when he came in in the second half and had a good game. Otherwise he was the backup for the entire season. Nolan had the uncanny ability to completely not see wide-open receivers on wheel routes. And the longer his career went on, the more reluctant he was to run, even with yards and yards of wide-open field in front of him. Good luck to him. We will be better at QB this year than last. I stand corrected! 1998-1999 was a long time ago and I had forgotten. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 19, 2023 15:22:49 GMT -8
Terrance Bryant did not start a game in 1999. The only game he received substantial PT was @ USC, when he came in in the second half and had a good game. Otherwise he was the backup for the entire season. Nolan had the uncanny ability to completely not see wide-open receivers on wheel routes. And the longer his career went on, the more reluctant he was to run, even with yards and yards of wide-open field in front of him. Good luck to him. We will be better at QB this year than last. First, just everyone's benefit. Smitty kept having the longest-ever streak of most consecutive passes without an interception. Smitty threw 71 straight passes without an interception into the Georgia Southern game in 1999, he had a second 71 straight passes without an interception streak end in the California game. He ended the 1999 season throwing 140 straight passes without an interception. Smitty started every game in 1999. Terrance Bryant threw a pass in the Georgia Southern game. Smitty started the USC game. Smitty started 7/8 for 122 yards. But Beaver receivers dropped five consecutive passes thereafter. Smitty finished completing 7/18 for 63 yards after that. Bryant took over in the USC game down 37-7 with 6:07 left in the third after Smitty's final drive ended in a strip-sack. Bryant drove for three touchdowns to pull within eight and had the ball first-and-ten at the Trojan 33 with less than two minutes left and a timeout. However, the Beavs only got two yards on four straight passes, turning it over on downs. Bryant did so well in the USC game that Erickson decided to allow Smitty and Bryant split time at quarterback against Washington. Smitty played very poorly, and Oregon State dug itself into a 21-0 hole. Bryant came in with less than four minutes left in the first quarter and finished the first half, extending the 21-0 hole into a 45-0 hole. Smitty took over thereafter and led the Beavers back to a more respectable 26-point loss. Bryant played against UCLA in garbage time, but did not paly the rest of the season. Bryant played 21 minutes against USC but played 17-19 minutes against Washington. |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Apr 19, 2023 15:58:05 GMT -8
Go back to the early game threads in the year and see how many of those drops hit the receivers right in the hands. And I still argue that interceptions is a dangerous stat to draw any significance from. tipped passes or receivers running the wrong route can elevate that statistic without being the fault of the QB. I also know that we often focus on the one player on the field, in this case the QB, without considering any of the other moving parts and pieces. Chance got a bum rap from some fans here starting the week he was appointed starting quarterback. Yet he took us to our first bowl game in a number of years. I'm not saying that you have to be in tears now that he's gone, but do you have to kick him in the ass on his way out? Show a little respect for the men who wore Orange and Black. Some random threads: Official Fresno State Thread. Pages 49 on are what you are looking for. You can respond to what I posted there, if you would like. I hated on Nolan's footwork and how his upper body started to go before his lower body was set. I go through all of the "drops" and point out how each one was either not a drop, was tipped, was actually interference, or how Nolan managed to screw it up. Official USC Thread. You were huge pro-Nolan. I was anti-, but I also knew nothing about BG, so I stupidly said that we should give Nolan another chance against Utah. I also was hoping that Musgrave came back to make the offense work better. The Bench Nolan Thread after the Utah game.Another similar thread.An early Gulbranson thread.A final Gulbranson-Nolan discussion after the loss to Washington.After watching BG the whole year, I don't know how CN won the job. That never should have happened. Like looking back at 2010 and realizing that Katz had no business beating out Vaz. BG was pretty superior to CN in every meaningful way. The fact that this continues to come up is galling. Bye Chance! Our hats our off to you! Thanks for the memories in 2021! I hope that you find success in your future endeavors! You haven't noticed a trend? I'll support the kid that the board badmouths. I'm smart enough to know that if the coach has him out there, then he's our best option for some reason. Chance, Dernedde. Both of these guys are statistically strong players at their sport. But they both have weaknesses. But the board seems to only see the weaknesses with these two. Weird. Sports are a funny business, and these are just kids. They learn, they grow, they develop--if we're doing it right. I like seeing that. |
|
|
|
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 19, 2023 15:59:04 GMT -8
Some random threads: Official Fresno State Thread. Pages 49 on are what you are looking for. You can respond to what I posted there, if you would like. I hated on Nolan's footwork and how his upper body started to go before his lower body was set. I go through all of the "drops" and point out how each one was either not a drop, was tipped, was actually interference, or how Nolan managed to screw it up. Official USC Thread. You were huge pro-Nolan. I was anti-, but I also knew nothing about BG, so I stupidly said that we should give Nolan another chance against Utah. I also was hoping that Musgrave came back to make the offense work better. The Bench Nolan Thread after the Utah game.Another similar thread.An early Gulbranson thread.A final Gulbranson-Nolan discussion after the loss to Washington.After watching BG the whole year, I don't know how CN won the job. That never should have happened. Like looking back at 2010 and realizing that Katz had no business beating out Vaz. BG was pretty superior to CN in every meaningful way. The fact that this continues to come up is galling. Bye Chance! Our hats our off to you! Thanks for the memories in 2021! I hope that you find success in your future endeavors! You haven't noticed a trend? I'll support the kid that the board badmouths. I'm smart enough to know that if the coach has him out there, then he's our best option for some reason. Chance, Dernedde. Both of these guys are statistically strong players at their sport. But they both have weaknesses. But the board seems to only see the weaknesses with these two. Weird. Sports are a funny business, and these are just kids. They learn, they grow, they develop--if we're doing it right. I like seeing that. I'll back Derne. At least he can hit lefties. (And righties occasionally.) |
|
|
|
Post by irimi on Apr 19, 2023 16:01:08 GMT -8
If less than optimum spirals affected catching a football in a negative way our current head coach would have never seen the field when he played. ok style of play comes into effect here but am I seriously the only one who remembers Smitty being extremely maligned for having a sub 50% career completion ratio until well into his senior season? The only thing that fans complained about more than his wobbly spiral and accuracy was the way he "turtled" when taking a sack. Short and had lots of balls batted down. Had to have the OL create "passing lanes" which made the offense less effective. Slow. I can go on and on. Don't act like there were no criticisms of Smitty, because they were many both before and after the Fiesta Bowl. TB was still taking starting snaps in 99 and his accuracy, mobility, and catchability were all markedly better than Smiths. Which didn't matter because Smith was an infinitely better field general, and time will only tell but maybe Nolan is/was too. I wonder if Smith is looking more for that characteristic (field general) than a natural passer. I'm sure he values that sort of leadership, and in my opinion, BG seemed a bit short on that end. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 19, 2023 16:40:57 GMT -8
ok style of play comes into effect here but am I seriously the only one who remembers Smitty being extremely maligned for having a sub 50% career completion ratio until well into his senior season? The only thing that fans complained about more than his wobbly spiral and accuracy was the way he "turtled" when taking a sack. Short and had lots of balls batted down. Had to have the OL create "passing lanes" which made the offense less effective. Slow. I can go on and on. Don't act like there were no criticisms of Smitty, because they were many both before and after the Fiesta Bowl. TB was still taking starting snaps in 99 and his accuracy, mobility, and catchability were all markedly better than Smiths. Which didn't matter because Smith was an infinitely better field general, and time will only tell but maybe Nolan is/was too. I wonder if Smith is looking more for that characteristic (field general) than a natural passer. I'm sure he values that sort of leadership, and in my opinion, BG seemed a bit short on that end. I think that's why Noyer got the start two years ago, until it became immediately clear Nolan was more effective. I think the whole "field general" thing comes with experience, few kids have it day one. I think BG was getting more of it later in the season. |
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Apr 19, 2023 20:00:19 GMT -8
If Smith played today, his completion percentage would be 10 points higher because checkdowns and other easy-to-complete 4-5-yard passes are so much more prevalent than in his era. He threw the ball down the field. Simonton, McCall, Battle and Jackson, the running backs in his era, did not have many receptions.
|
|
|
|
Post by seastape on Apr 19, 2023 20:42:46 GMT -8
ok style of play comes into effect here but am I seriously the only one who remembers Smitty being extremely maligned for having a sub 50% career completion ratio until well into his senior season? The only thing that fans complained about more than his wobbly spiral and accuracy was the way he "turtled" when taking a sack. Short and had lots of balls batted down. Had to have the OL create "passing lanes" which made the offense less effective. Slow. I can go on and on. Don't act like there were no criticisms of Smitty, because they were many both before and after the Fiesta Bowl. TB was still taking starting snaps in 99 and his accuracy, mobility, and catchability were all markedly better than Smiths. Which didn't matter because Smith was an infinitely better field general, and time will only tell but maybe Nolan is/was too. JS received plenty of criticism back then. His strength was that he took care of the ball and didn't throw many picks (although that increased in 2001). There were plenty of critics that wanted him benched for DA in his senior year. He throw a lot of wounded ducks, but he also completed a lot of long balls. DE's offense asked him to throw a lot more deep balls than some of the offenses that our other QB's were in....that also decreased his completion percentage. I felt out OL play and the loss of our entire starting receiving corps (Johnson, Houshmandzadeh, Maurer and Prescott) had a lot to do with Smitty's declining numbers in 01. Simonton had a nearly 600 yard drop off in rushing yards, as well. We lost a lot on offense after the 2000 season. |
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 19, 2023 21:09:10 GMT -8
JS received plenty of criticism back then. His strength was that he took care of the ball and didn't throw many picks (although that increased in 2001). There were plenty of critics that wanted him benched for DA in his senior year. He throw a lot of wounded ducks, but he also completed a lot of long balls. DE's offense asked him to throw a lot more deep balls than some of the offenses that our other QB's were in....that also decreased his completion percentage. I felt out OL play and the loss of our entire starting receiving corps (Johnson, Houshmandzadeh, Maurer and Prescott) had a lot to do with Smitty's declining numbers in 01. Simonton had a nearly 600 yard drop off in rushing yards, as well. We lost a lot on offense after the 2000 season. During the off-season there were stories in the paper saying they were working on him "surveying" (or something along those lines) in the backfield and picking his holes and he was going to be more like Barry Sanders. To me, that really backfired. For 3 years he just ran where he was supposed to without thinking, fast, and if he got through the line he usually made the next 2-3 guys miss. Most of his worst games wete esrly, it seemed to me they abandoned that strategy later and he was running more like his old self. With Steven Jackson it seemed almost the same story - 2 years of running hard and fast where he was supposed to go, then running through or over the next 2-3 players, then trying to "survey" and pick holes in his final season here. It seemed to me he did a bunch more dancing in the backfield but was so fricken strong it really didn't matter, he still got his yards despite not having holes available. I'm not sure if it was somewhat planned because the coaches knew the O lines were going to be "down" those years, or if was just a clever thought to change thongs up. |
|
