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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 17, 2023 11:37:17 GMT -8
If we threw out his best and worst seasons he'd be the best coach we've had since in 34 years or so. If I were your boss and you did a better job than everyone else I've had in the last 3 and a half decades, should I can you for a couple of project failures? Sounds more like you're just a s%#tty hiring manager. Also I love how the Tinkle defenders cite three decades of futility in Beavers men's basketball while ignoring that Tinkle himself makes up about a quarter/one-third of that timeframe. So you're saying you should be fired? In 9 years the team has had 5 winning seasons, a .500 season, 3 losing seasons, two NCAA tournaments and RPIs high enough on 2 other seasons that the team, not Tinkle, basically got screwed out of 2 NIT trips. The previous 24 years the team had a grand total of 2 winning seasons, 2 .500 seasons (one of which the team only won 13 regular season wins, but became the team with the fewest wins to ever be invited to the CBI because the coach was the President's brother-in-law) and 1 NIT appearance. That's about 2 and a half decades of near complete futility followed by a period of mostly decent play. That's a night and day improvement. Last year was very bad. This year was bad but improved with a very young team. If you expected more this year I'd question your judgment. I think expecting a 50/50 season or better next season is quite realistic - he should be on the hot seat and judged after next season's results. If he meets or surpasses reasonable expectations he probably gets another year, in the meantime repeated bitching and complaining about past results is just plain bitching and complaining. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 17, 2023 12:22:57 GMT -8
As great a coach as Ralph was his teams tended to play tight in the NCAA tournament. In 8 appearances they lost in first game 7 times. Anyone who is old enough remembers the opening round losses to Lamar as a 2 seed and Kansas State as a 1 seed. Yes, Miller’s teams had their issues. One thing that does seem to get glossed over is the majority of those first round losses — including the two games you reference — occurred when field was only 32 teams. So first round games were theoretically tougher then and it was harder to get in tourney. gets his numbers wrong, and you added more wrong to the mix. And then rgeorge liked your post! Only 1 of the 8 Oregon State Ralph Miller appearances was back in the 32-team Tournament days, and Oregon State beat Middle Tennessee State 78-67 in the Mideast quarterfinals in Lexington, Kentucky. A not so fun fact is that, up until the 2021 win over Tennessee, this was Oregon State's last official win in the Tournament. So, no. The Tournament expanded to 40 in 1979 and to 48 in 1980. It stuck at 48 until 1982 and then expanded to 52 in 1983, 53 in 1984, and 64 in 1985. It stayed at 64 until 2001, due to the break-up of the WAC into the Mountain West and WAC. Oregon State received a bye in the 1980, 1981, and 1982 Tournaments. #2 Oregon State lost to #10 Lamar 81-77 after a bye in 1980 and #1 Oregon State lost to #8 Kansas State 50-48 after a bye in 1981. #2 Oregon State beat #7 Pepperdine 70-51 after a bye in 1982 and then defeated #3 Idaho (ranked #8 nationally) before bowing out to #1 Georgetown (#6 nationally). The 60-42 win over Idaho in 1982 was Oregon State's last win in the Tournament until the 2021 win over Tennessee. But again, no. As for tougher, no Arizonas and no Colorado back in 1975. If you subtract those teams out in say 2021, Oregon State was 9-5 in conference, which probably would have been good enough for an invite back in 1975. If you take the Arizonas and Colorado out in 2019, Oregon State is 9-6 in conference, finishes second and is a surefire Tourney team in 1975. It also should be noted that Oregon State missed playing the return game against #10 Stanford and #12 California in 2019, which would have been nice. In 2021, the two misses were a home game against #4 UCLA and a road game against #11 Washington. It is entirely probable that both would have resulted in wins, depending on when the games were played. Oregon State won the Pac-10 in 1980, 1981, 1982, and 1984. Oregon State went to the Tournament in 1985, 1988, and 1989 as an at large. The Beavers finished third, second, and fourth respectively in the Pac-10. 2019 Oregon State would have made the Tournament in 1985 and 1989 based upon the foregoing. They are different eras, so comparisons between the two are always going to be pretty limited. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 17, 2023 12:41:40 GMT -8
If we threw out his best and worst seasons he'd be the best coach we've had since in 34 years or so. If I were your boss and you did a better job than everyone else I've had in the last 3 and a half decades, should I can you for a couple of project failures? Yeah, I guess if I were the "best" of 35 years of abject failures I couldn't get another job besides a company that thrives on mediocrity. "Recent History"... funny how some folks' definition will extend to the E8 for the next few years! About 249 teams had (14) wins this season... OSU's total over the last two seasons. Of those (190) with winning records, (100) in the postseason. But, really of 351 (last # I saw?) D1 hoop schools, only (8) have had less wins the last two seasons than OSU. Another had only (11), but it was Lindenwood's first season playing D1 ball. Whether WT will be here next year, the perceived budget effects, past coaches, etc, etc, etc the consistent acceptance of WT's overall consistency and record is sort of shocking for this board. You can't ignore the 24 years previous to Wayne Tinkle. You can't ignore the 10th largest basketball budget in the Pac-12. There are fixes, but I don't believe that we have the fan support or money to really make it work. Michael Scott would have been fired at Dunder Mifflin by your thinking. You can acknowledge that things are working against Tinkle and still argue your point without completely discounting the myriad factors working against Tinkle. Consistency? The consistency is 2017-2021. There is a bad season before and two bad seasons after. And those represent the only three bad seasons. It is a much easier argument to make that 2016-17 and 2021-23 are the outliers than the other way around. You can fixate on them if you would like and beat the rest of us over the head with 'em. And profess your undying love for your paramour Craig Robinson repeatedly. But your argument melts away, because it still represents a minority of the seasons and runs opposite of the trend line over the previous two seasons. As for shocking, I'm posting on a board to a dude who disappeared into the wind for exactly eight months before coming on specifically.........SPECIFICALLY.........to badmouth Tinkle in the midst of a 1-7 slide. Shocking! Talk about football. Your football takes are almost all great. And we had a full season of no baseba11 insight into the football team. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 17, 2023 12:51:00 GMT -8
Wonder how many teams have won less than 14 games over the past two years. Very, very few. By the way with all of Ralph's faults I'd take him as a coach in a heartbeat. You know, there are people who held Tinkle’s 5 win season against him despite the 4 seasons that followed never dipping below the .500 mark and being quite competitive in league and hitting the Elite 8 once. The 14 win total number is HEAVILY skewed by the 3 win season. The question is, will some people be holding that 3 win season or this 2 season 14 win stretch against him forever? If he wins 16 next year and 20 the following year, including a tournament trip, will those people be on here bitching about him “barely winning 12 games a year over the last 4 seasons”? Just curious, at what point can a coach’s success outrun past failures?Your first two paragraphs are spot on. To answer your rhetorical, though, I think that most of the more pro-Tinkle people on here, including myself, have to appreciate that the last two seasons are two of Tinkle's three worst. We know he can coach. And we believe that better days with Tinkle are both before the last two seasons and also ahead. Overall, the last three seasons have been great. But the last two seasons have been atrocious. Both sentences are true. The conclusions that you draw from them are your conclusions. Both have merit, and I believe that our side has more. But I think there is enough bad for the anti-Tinkle people to bludgeon us until Oregon State tips off the 2023-24 season this fall. If Tinkle can improve into the 16-17 win range or above, which I think is about par for Oregon State, given the current level of support, I think that your rhetorical will land a lot better. We saw a ton of improvement in 2022-23, and we needed to see a ton of improvement in 2022-23 after how bad 2021-22 was. We need to see almost as much improvement, if not more, in 2023-24, though. Tinkle needs to keep building. |
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Post by beaverinohio on Mar 17, 2023 15:50:00 GMT -8
Yes, Miller’s teams had their issues. One thing that does seem to get glossed over is the majority of those first round losses — including the two games you reference — occurred when field was only 32 teams. So first round games were theoretically tougher then and it was harder to get in tourney. gets his numbers wrong, and you added more wrong to the mix. And then rgeorge liked your post! Only 1 of the 8 Oregon State Ralph Miller appearances was back in the 32-team Tournament days, and Oregon State beat Middle Tennessee State 78-67 in the Mideast quarterfinals in Lexington, Kentucky. A not so fun fact is that, up until the 2021 win over Tennessee, this was Oregon State's last official win in the Tournament. So, no. The Tournament expanded to 40 in 1979 and to 48 in 1980. It stuck at 48 until 1982 and then expanded to 52 in 1983, 53 in 1984, and 64 in 1985. It stayed at 64 until 2001, due to the break-up of the WAC into the Mountain West and WAC. Oregon State received a bye in the 1980, 1981, and 1982 Tournaments. #2 Oregon State lost to #10 Lamar 81-77 after a bye in 1980 and #1 Oregon State lost to #8 Kansas State 50-48 after a bye in 1981. #2 Oregon State beat #7 Pepperdine 70-51 after a bye in 1982 and then defeated #3 Idaho (ranked #8 nationally) before bowing out to #1 Georgetown (#6 nationally). The 60-42 win over Idaho in 1982 was Oregon State's last win in the Tournament until the 2021 win over Tennessee. But again, no. As for tougher, no Arizonas and no Colorado back in 1975. If you subtract those teams out in say 2021, Oregon State was 9-5 in conference, which probably would have been good enough for an invite back in 1975. If you take the Arizonas and Colorado out in 2019, Oregon State is 9-6 in conference, finishes second and is a surefire Tourney team in 1975. It also should be noted that Oregon State missed playing the return game against #10 Stanford and #12 California in 2019, which would have been nice. In 2021, the two misses were a home game against #4 UCLA and a road game against #11 Washington. It is entirely probable that both would have resulted in wins, depending on when the games were played. Oregon State won the Pac-10 in 1980, 1981, 1982, and 1984. Oregon State went to the Tournament in 1985, 1988, and 1989 as an at large. The Beavers finished third, second, and fourth respectively in the Pac-10. 2019 Oregon State would have made the Tournament in 1985 and 1989 based upon the foregoing. They are different eras, so comparisons between the two are always going to be pretty limited. My apologies for the incorrect info, though I think my point still has merit. What I still find strange is that people feel the need to attack (maybe to strong a word) Miller’s record — for what, to bolster up Tinkle? |
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Post by alwaysorange on Mar 17, 2023 16:25:16 GMT -8
If tinkle has done the best coaching job in the last 30 years is it possible there could be somebody better out there or should we just hand him a life time contract? I think there is somebody out there that can have a better league record then 34% and overall record of 44% over 9 years but that's just me. By the way other than his son and the two thompsons who has tinkle recruited of any note?
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 17, 2023 16:57:58 GMT -8
Yeah, I guess if I were the "best" of 35 years of abject failures I couldn't get another job besides a company that thrives on mediocrity. "Recent History"... funny how some folks' definition will extend to the E8 for the next few years! About 249 teams had (14) wins this season... OSU's total over the last two seasons. Of those (190) with winning records, (100) in the postseason. But, really of 351 (last # I saw?) D1 hoop schools, only (8) have had less wins the last two seasons than OSU. Another had only (11), but it was Lindenwood's first season playing D1 ball. Whether WT will be here next year, the perceived budget effects, past coaches, etc, etc, etc the consistent acceptance of WT's overall consistency and record is sort of shocking for this board. You can't ignore the 24 years previous to Wayne Tinkle. You can't ignore the 10th largest basketball budget in the Pac-12. There are fixes, but I don't believe that we have the fan support or money to really make it work. Michael Scott would have been fired at Dunder Mifflin by your thinking. You can acknowledge that things are working against Tinkle and still argue your point without completely discounting the myriad factors working against Tinkle. Consistency? The consistency is 2017-2021. There is a bad season before and two bad seasons after. And those represent the only three bad seasons. It is a much easier argument to make that 2016-17 and 2021-23 are the outliers than the other way around. You can fixate on them if you would like and beat the rest of us over the head with 'em. And profess your undying love for your paramour Craig Robinson repeatedly. But your argument melts away, because it still represents a minority of the seasons and runs opposite of the trend line over the previous two seasons. As for shocking, I'm posting on a board to a dude who disappeared into the wind for exactly eight months before coming on specifically.........SPECIFICALLY.........to badmouth Tinkle in the midst of a 1-7 slide. Shocking! Talk about football. Your football takes are almost all great. And we had a full season of no baseba11 insight into the football team. Speaking of consistency... Lame arguments that either have zero to do with the topic, or super selective data sets that you use to try and support your views. NOTHING you were blabbering about disputes the actual/factual results! I guess if someone's "recent history" was the last two seasons, then being 343rd "ish" in D1 wins is a pretty ready benchmark to improve upon. 😉 |
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Post by qbeaver on Mar 17, 2023 17:40:10 GMT -8
A lot like Ralph's teams, but some here don't want to hear that  Ralph's great teams never played in the 64-team tournament era. Never got that cushy first-round 1-16 or 2-15 game. In today's tournament, he'd never have to play a game on an opposing team's home court, like in 1985 at Notre Dame. Not excusing his poor NCAA performance, but you're not comparing apples to apples. K-state had to win to get into the tournament and wasn't favored. I watched every one of those losses. Ralph was bad at adjustments ...that from a four year player who played in the tournament and had no axe to grind against Ralph. |
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Post by qbeaver on Mar 17, 2023 17:43:40 GMT -8
Yes, Miller’s teams had their issues. One thing that does seem to get glossed over is the majority of those first round losses — including the two games you reference — occurred when field was only 32 teams. So first round games were theoretically tougher then and it was harder to get in tourney. gets his numbers wrong, and you added more wrong to the mix. And then rgeorge liked your post! Only 1 of the 8 Oregon State Ralph Miller appearances was back in the 32-team Tournament days, and Oregon State beat Middle Tennessee State 78-67 in the Mideast quarterfinals in Lexington, Kentucky. A not so fun fact is that, up until the 2021 win over Tennessee, this was Oregon State's last official win in the Tournament. So, no. The Tournament expanded to 40 in 1979 and to 48 in 1980. It stuck at 48 until 1982 and then expanded to 52 in 1983, 53 in 1984, and 64 in 1985. It stayed at 64 until 2001, due to the break-up of the WAC into the Mountain West and WAC. Oregon State received a bye in the 1980, 1981, and 1982 Tournaments. #2 Oregon State lost to #10 Lamar 81-77 after a bye in 1980 and #1 Oregon State lost to #8 Kansas State 50-48 after a bye in 1981. #2 Oregon State beat #7 Pepperdine 70-51 after a bye in 1982 and then defeated #3 Idaho (ranked #8 nationally) before bowing out to #1 Georgetown (#6 nationally). The 60-42 win over Idaho in 1982 was Oregon State's last win in the Tournament until the 2021 win over Tennessee. But again, no. As for tougher, no Arizonas and no Colorado back in 1975. If you subtract those teams out in say 2021, Oregon State was 9-5 in conference, which probably would have been good enough for an invite back in 1975. If you take the Arizonas and Colorado out in 2019, Oregon State is 9-6 in conference, finishes second and is a surefire Tourney team in 1975. It also should be noted that Oregon State missed playing the return game against #10 Stanford and #12 California in 2019, which would have been nice. In 2021, the two misses were a home game against #4 UCLA and a road game against #11 Washington. It is entirely probable that both would have resulted in wins, depending on when the games were played. Oregon State won the Pac-10 in 1980, 1981, 1982, and 1984. Oregon State went to the Tournament in 1985, 1988, and 1989 as an at large. The Beavers finished third, second, and fourth respectively in the Pac-10. 2019 Oregon State would have made the Tournament in 1985 and 1989 based upon the foregoing. They are different eras, so comparisons between the two are always going to be pretty limited. The team with Lonnie Shelton and crew lost to Indiana by 10 then best MT ST. If you lostyour first game,you played a second back then. |
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Post by pabeaver on Mar 17, 2023 17:50:50 GMT -8
Speaking of consistency... Lame arguments that either have zero to do with the topic, or super selective data sets that you use to try and support your views. Ummm you might want to scroll to the top of the thread to check out the actual topic |
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 17, 2023 17:54:49 GMT -8
Speaking of consistency... Lame arguments that either have zero to do with the topic, or super selective data sets that you use to try and support your views. Ummm you might want to scroll to the top of the thread to check out the actual topic Know exactly the topic and heading. Hence, "recently" is very subjective... right? |
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 17, 2023 17:55:24 GMT -8
Speaking of consistency... Lame arguments that either have zero to do with the topic, or super selective data sets that you use to try and support your views. Ummm you might want to scroll to the top of the thread to check out the actual topic Know exactly the topic and heading. Hence, "recently" and "successfull" are very subjective... right? |
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Post by pabeaver on Mar 17, 2023 18:11:29 GMT -8
Ummm you might want to scroll to the top of the thread to check out the actual topic Know exactly the topic and heading. Hence, "recently" and "successfull" are very subjective... right? ”OSU has more recently made an Elite Eight than Arizona” You are arguing that OSU hasn’t more recently made an Elite Eight than Arizona? |
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 17, 2023 18:16:39 GMT -8
Know exactly the topic and heading. Hence, "recently" and "successfull" are very subjective... right? ”OSU has more recently made an Elite Eight than Arizona” You are arguing that OSU hasn’t more recently made an Elite Eight than Arizona? Nope... but, comments deal more than with the exact title. They are responses to other comments. The combo of recently in a E8 and being successful is a joke. No way an E8 followed by being the 343rd best D1 team in terms of wins is successful. In fact it could probably be one of the biggest flops in NCAA history?! But, you go ahead and set your standards any way you want. WT's tenure is part of the worst era of OSU hoops. Not the turn around some here want us to believe. He's had the worst single seaon record in OSU history, another that's 3rd worst I believe. And this season that ranks in the bottom 10. The E8 benchmark as some standard is ridiculous. It's an anomaly of epic portions. Successful... really? |
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Post by speakthetruth on Mar 17, 2023 18:24:25 GMT -8
You know I really don't care how many times coach tinkle beat the sisters of the blind in non league games. In his 9 years as head coach at oregon state he has one winning season in league play. That by any measurement is rather poor. But I'm sure someone will say how its great.
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