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Post by scottybooks on Feb 7, 2023 9:57:38 GMT -8
From 6-28 deficit midway second quarter vs. Colorado, they exploded. The crowd exploded. The future was born.
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Post by lotrader on Feb 7, 2023 10:41:24 GMT -8
From 6-28 deficit midway second quarter vs. Colorado, they exploded. The crowd exploded. The future was born. I went back and watched the recorded game on PAC-12. The explosion that scottybooks references coincided with the insertion of Martha at PG. Martha directly assisted on 2 of the 3-pointers (Lily then Adlee) by breaking down her defender and drawing the other Colorado defender. This gave both Lily and Adlee enough time to set their feet. Also, Martha was being defended by one of the best defenders in the league in Colorado's Kindyll Wetta. Martha literally turned Kindyll sideways a couple times. Then Martha crossed up Frida Formann and Frida fell to the ground. The other 3-pointer was by Timea which resulted in a pass from Jelena (but first from Martha to Jelena). Lastly, Martha got to the hoop twice scoring against Wetta, and barely missing another basket. Point being, Martha did an incredible job running the team from the PG position, and never picked up her dribble the entire time she was on the floor. If you go back and watch Mannen, TvO and Bendu running the PG position, they are not naturals and all of them get trapped because they all pick up their dribble. |
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Post by hoopheritic on Feb 7, 2023 10:50:04 GMT -8
On the offensive end Martha is our best PG. Defense needs to catch up.
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Post by standerd on Feb 7, 2023 11:04:11 GMT -8
On the offensive end Martha is our best PG. Defense needs to catch up. Only way that is going to happen is when Martha is given more playing time! She has been available the whole time but apparently invisible. It has always been amazing to me how coaches can lose track of certain players and what they contribute. Martha does need to increase her defensive skill, but for goodness sake we need a true PG like Martha who can break down the defense, assist, and score. Has not that been an obvious issue this season? Go Beats! |
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Post by skyrider on Feb 7, 2023 11:40:05 GMT -8
On the offensive end Martha is our best PG. Defense needs to catch up. Only way that is going to happen is when Martha is given more playing time! She has been available the whole time but apparently invisible. It has always been amazing to me how coaches can lose track of certain players and what they contribute. Martha does need to increase her defensive skill, but for goodness sake we need a true PG like Martha who can break down the defense, assist, and score. Has not that been an obvious issue this season? Go Beats! standerd,
Within the last week or so, I posted a rather lengthy explanation of what I believed is Coach Rueck's denial of the value of a creative true point guard and gave an example from the past (Taylor Kalmer) of a perfect example. How he would not play her significant minutes and could not seem to handle a point guard who did exactly the things you are talking about that Martha can do. Remember the definition of insanity? "Continue doing what you are doing and expect a different result". Thanks for your insightful and illuminating post! |
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Post by grayman on Feb 7, 2023 11:46:12 GMT -8
From 6-28 deficit midway second quarter vs. Colorado, they exploded. The crowd exploded. The future was born. I went back and watched the recorded game on PAC-12. The explosion that scottybooks references coincided with the insertion of Martha at PG. Martha directly assisted on 2 of the 3-pointers (Lily then Adlee) by breaking down her defender and drawing the other Colorado defender. This gave both Lily and Adlee enough time to set their feet. Also, Martha was being defended by one of the best defenders in the league in Colorado's Kindyll Wetta. Martha literally turned Kindyll sideways a couple times. Then Martha crossed up Frida Formann and Frida fell to the ground. The other 3-pointer was by Timea which resulted in a pass from Jelena (but first from Martha to Jelena). Lastly, Martha got to the hoop twice scoring against Wetta, and barely missing another basket. Point being, Martha did an incredible job running the team from the PG position, and never picked up her dribble the entire time she was on the floor. If you go back and watch Mannen, TvO and Bendu running the PG position, they are not naturals and all of them get trapped because they all pick up their dribble. Pretty sure it was Adlee who crossed up Formann. Martha did a good job during that stretch. Adlee was moving well without the ball and was hitting shots. I like Martha but I'm just not as convinced as others that she's some sort of answer at the point. I agree that she has the better skill set for the position than Yeaney. It's clear that her height is an issue. Having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing her on the court more as they close out the season. |
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Post by standerd on Feb 7, 2023 11:57:15 GMT -8
I went back and watched the recorded game on PAC-12. The explosion that scottybooks references coincided with the insertion of Martha at PG. Martha directly assisted on 2 of the 3-pointers (Lily then Adlee) by breaking down her defender and drawing the other Colorado defender. This gave both Lily and Adlee enough time to set their feet. Also, Martha was being defended by one of the best defenders in the league in Colorado's Kindyll Wetta. Martha literally turned Kindyll sideways a couple times. Then Martha crossed up Frida Formann and Frida fell to the ground. The other 3-pointer was by Timea which resulted in a pass from Jelena (but first from Martha to Jelena). Lastly, Martha got to the hoop twice scoring against Wetta, and barely missing another basket. Point being, Martha did an incredible job running the team from the PG position, and never picked up her dribble the entire time she was on the floor. If you go back and watch Mannen, TvO and Bendu running the PG position, they are not naturals and all of them get trapped because they all pick up their dribble. Pretty sure it was Adlee who crossed up Formann. Martha did a good job during that stretch. Adlee was moving well without the ball and was hitting shots. I like Martha but I'm just not as convinced as others that she's some sort of answer at the point. I agree that she has the better skill set for the position than Yeaney. It's clear that her height is an issue. Having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing her on the court more as they close out the season. I see your point Grayman about Martha probably not being the answer (yet), and I do agree that Martha has the better skill set and should get more playing time. I also remember that a few to several years ago there was a team that won the NCAA Tournament and the starting point guard was quite "short". IMO, the "short" thing is getting kind of tedious. That said, how could it get worse if Martha was to receive sufficient time on the floor to continue to grow her skill set (offensively and defensively) in real-time game situations. How could it hurt? The team is already struggling. Finally, I want you to know that I do very much appreciate your posts and insights. Go Beavs! |
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Post by lotrader on Feb 7, 2023 12:45:22 GMT -8
I went back and watched the recorded game on PAC-12. The explosion that scottybooks references coincided with the insertion of Martha at PG. Martha directly assisted on 2 of the 3-pointers (Lily then Adlee) by breaking down her defender and drawing the other Colorado defender. This gave both Lily and Adlee enough time to set their feet. Also, Martha was being defended by one of the best defenders in the league in Colorado's Kindyll Wetta. Martha literally turned Kindyll sideways a couple times. Then Martha crossed up Frida Formann and Frida fell to the ground. The other 3-pointer was by Timea which resulted in a pass from Jelena (but first from Martha to Jelena). Lastly, Martha got to the hoop twice scoring against Wetta, and barely missing another basket. Point being, Martha did an incredible job running the team from the PG position, and never picked up her dribble the entire time she was on the floor. If you go back and watch Mannen, TvO and Bendu running the PG position, they are not naturals and all of them get trapped because they all pick up their dribble. Pretty sure it was Adlee who crossed up Formann. Martha did a good job during that stretch. Adlee was moving well without the ball and was hitting shots. I like Martha but I'm just not as convinced as others that she's some sort of answer at the point. I agree that she has the better skill set for the position than Yeaney. It's clear that her height is an issue. Having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing her on the court more as they close out the season. , you are correct, it was Adlee who crossed up Formann. Martha's height was not an issue in the Colorado game. She stayed in front of her player, and maneuvered around screens. Nobody got by Martha all the way to the basket for an easy score. |
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Post by grayman on Feb 7, 2023 13:03:31 GMT -8
Pretty sure it was Adlee who crossed up Formann. Martha did a good job during that stretch. Adlee was moving well without the ball and was hitting shots. I like Martha but I'm just not as convinced as others that she's some sort of answer at the point. I agree that she has the better skill set for the position than Yeaney. It's clear that her height is an issue. Having said that, I wouldn't mind seeing her on the court more as they close out the season. , you are correct, it was Adlee who crossed up Formann. Martha's height was not an issue in the Colorado game. She stayed in front of her player, and maneuvered around screens. Nobody got by Martha all the way to the basket for an easy score. Yeah, she's just fine in short stretches. And as I said, I wouldn't mind if Rueck gave her more minutes to finish out the season. But I think what we'd see if she played 25-30 minutes a game throughout a season is opposing teams using bigger guards to post her up or just shoot over her. Smaller guards can make up for that deficit to a degree by using speed and quickness. Martha's fine in that area, but she's not exceptional. For example, Yeaney is quicker and has a five-inch height advantage. Slocum has elite quickness and is two inches taller. It does make a difference. |
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Post by skyrider on Feb 7, 2023 13:17:11 GMT -8
grayman , you are correct, it was Adlee who crossed up Formann. Martha's height was not an issue in the Colorado game. She stayed in front of her player, and maneuvered around screens. Nobody got by Martha all the way to the basket for an easy score. Yeah, she's just fine in short stretches. And as I said, I wouldn't mind if Rueck gave her more minutes to finish out the season. But I think what we'd see if she played 25-30 minutes a game throughout a season is opposing teams using bigger guards to post her up or just shoot over her. Smaller guards can make up for that deficit to a degree by using speed and quickness. Martha's fine in that area, but she's not exceptional. For example, Yeaney is quicker and has a five-inch height advantage. Slocum has elite quickness and is two inches taller. It does make a difference. grayman,
So grayman are you saying with Martha's shortcomings (which you are correct abou!) we might lose games. Oh wait! The team is already doing that on an regular and increasing basis. Play her , the results can not be any worse than they are now.
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Post by grayman on Feb 7, 2023 13:35:53 GMT -8
Yeah, she's just fine in short stretches. And as I said, I wouldn't mind if Rueck gave her more minutes to finish out the season. But I think what we'd see if she played 25-30 minutes a game throughout a season is opposing teams using bigger guards to post her up or just shoot over her. Smaller guards can make up for that deficit to a degree by using speed and quickness. Martha's fine in that area, but she's not exceptional. For example, Yeaney is quicker and has a five-inch height advantage. Slocum has elite quickness and is two inches taller. It does make a difference. grayman,
So grayman are you saying with Martha's shortcomings (which you are correct abou!) we might lose games. Oh wait! The team is already doing that on an regular and increasing basis. Play her , the results can not be any worse than they are now.
Well, no, not really. And I said that it's cool if Rueck plays her more moving forward this season. I was pointing out her shortcomings that would (and have) result/resulted in more limited playing time. And I would expect her to be a backup next year at the point with the arrival of Shuler and possibly a PG through the portal. And maybe Hunter will get some time at the position. |
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Post by skyrider on Feb 7, 2023 13:51:31 GMT -8
grayman,
So grayman are you saying with Martha's shortcomings (which you are correct abou!) we might lose games. Oh wait! The team is already doing that on an regular and increasing basis. Play her , the results can not be any worse than they are now.
Well, no, not really. And I said that it's cool if Rueck plays her more moving forward this season. I was pointing out her shortcomings that would (and have) result/resulted in more limited playing time. And I would expect her to be a backup next year at the point with the arrival of Shuler and possibly a PG through the portal. And maybe Hunter will get some time at the position. grayman,
I hope for nothing but great play from Shuler, but I am curious why so many on the group seem to feel she will be the answer. Am I not correct, that she is not nearly as highly rated as a potential recruit then most of the players we have now. Also that she does not appear to be any better athlete than A. J. who SR is not choosing to play very much (although I realize A. J. plays a different position). Anyhow I would appreciate your take on Shuler.
Thank you!
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Post by grayman on Feb 7, 2023 14:13:19 GMT -8
Well, no, not really. And I said that it's cool if Rueck plays her more moving forward this season. I was pointing out her shortcomings that would (and have) result/resulted in more limited playing time. And I would expect her to be a backup next year at the point with the arrival of Shuler and possibly a PG through the portal. And maybe Hunter will get some time at the position. grayman,
I hope for nothing but great play from Shuler, but I am curious why so many on the group seem to feel she will be the answer. Am I not correct, that she is not nearly as highly rated as a potential recruit then most of the players we have now. Also that she does not appear to be any better athlete than A. J. who SR is not choosing to play very much (although I realize A. J. plays a different position). Anyhow I would appreciate your take on Shuler.
Thank you!
Good question. In my case, it's just hopefulness. That's why I keep calling for Rueck to hit the portal for a point guard. You can't just count on a freshman to come in right away and make a significant impact. If Rueck does not or is unable to get another PG through the portal, then it will be Shuler, Pietsch and maybe someone like Hunter at the spot. Who knows if that will work? From what I've seen of Shuler on tape (and it's not like I've watched a lot) is that she has very good ballhandling and passing skills and has more than enough quickness to hang in the Pac-12. Hunter is a better scorer and rebounder but she does get a lot of assists. Probably a better fit at the 2. |
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Post by lotrader on Feb 7, 2023 14:36:41 GMT -8
Who knows why Coach Rueck hasn't given the rock to Martha? Maybe Coach made promises to portal transfers that he has to keep? The best way to determine if Martha can play a productive roll on this team going forward is to give Martha the rock and let her run the team. Martha has definitely demonstrated that she is capable to handle the traditional PG duties. Dare I say she does it better than anyone else on the team. Mix and match her with different combinations on the floor. If Coach Rueck watched the film from Sunday's game, Coach knows that Martha performed the PG duties very well (including defensively). I'm hopeful that given OSU WBB Team's current record, that Coach Rueck will at least give Martha more minutes in the next few games. There are many examples of quality teams with PGs on the shorter side. UCONN with 5'6" Moriah Jefferson, & 5'5" Crystal Dangerfield come to mind. Many more examples out there.
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Post by skyrider on Feb 7, 2023 14:37:32 GMT -8
grayman,
I hope for nothing but great play from Shuler, but I am curious why so many on the group seem to feel she will be the answer. Am I not correct, that she is not nearly as highly rated as a potential recruit then most of the players we have now. Also that she does not appear to be any better athlete than A. J. who SR is not choosing to play very much (although I realize A. J. plays a different position). Anyhow I would appreciate your take on Shuler.
Thank you!
Good question. In my case, it's just hopefulness. That's why I keep calling for Rueck to hit the portal for a point guard. You can't just count on a freshman to come in right away and make a significant impact. If Rueck does not or is unable to get another PG through the portal, then it will be Shuler, Pietsch and maybe someone like Hunter at the spot. Who knows if that will work? From what I've seen of Shuler on tape (and it's not like I've watched a lot) is that she has very good ballhandling and passing skills and has more than enough quickness to hang in the Pac-12. Hunter is a better scorer and rebounder but she does get a lot of assists. Probably a better fit at the 2. grayman,
I believe we have all been spoiled by having a history of OSU women's basketball players recently that had the drive and determination to do the difficult and time consuming hours and hours of work to better their play (Jamie Weisner, Kat Tudor, Mikayla Pivic, Ruth Hamlin, Marie Gulich, etc, etc. When that does not happen (either due to players actiond and/or their coaches direction) the results seem to be quite clear-from first to last!
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