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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 27, 2023 10:30:57 GMT -8
It's kinda been that way for the last 30 years. The concept that OSU is bad in MBB only recently still baffles me. People are in denial. Can we go back to the juggernaut years of Jimmy, Eddie, Ritchie, Jay and Craig.....please!
It's weird, though, to continue to use that as some kind of defense of the current coaching - it's more an indictment of our inability to hire good coaches with offensive philosophies.
Or it's an illustration of just how difficult it is to coach here. Let's look at Washington State, since Raveling had some success there. Kelvin couldn't win there. Len Stevens couldn't win there. Kevin Eastman couldn't win there. Paul Graham couldn't win there. Dick Bennett couldn't win there. Ken Bone couldn't win there. Ernie Kent couldn't win there. Kyle Smith is barely winning there. The only guy since the 1980s who won there was Tony Bennett. Kelvin can coach. Dick Bennett can coach. Ernie had tremendous success at Oregon. Kevin Eastman has been a very successful assistant/player development coach in the NBA. Ken Bone won at Portland State. Sometimes it's not all on the coach, or even on the school making "bad" hires. At some places it's just friggin' hard to win. Comparing the Ralph Miller era to current college basketball is like comparing the Wright brothers to space travel. |
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Post by seastape on Jan 27, 2023 11:01:41 GMT -8
All I know is that someone needs to tell Taylor to stop driving into the paint only to commit a turnover. He has his good points, but finishing in the key is not one of them.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Jan 27, 2023 11:27:52 GMT -8
It's weird, though, to continue to use that as some kind of defense of the current coaching - it's more an indictment of our inability to hire good coaches with offensive philosophies.
Or it's an illustration of just how difficult it is to coach here. Let's look at Washington State, since Raveling had some success there. Kelvin couldn't win there. Len Stevens couldn't win there. Kevin Eastman couldn't win there. Paul Graham couldn't win there. Dick Bennett couldn't win there. Ken Bone couldn't win there. Ernie Kent couldn't win there. Kyle Smith is barely winning there. The only guy since the 1980s who won there was Tony Bennett. Kelvin can coach. Dick Bennett can coach. Ernie had tremendous success at Oregon. Kevin Eastman has been a very successful assistant/player development coach in the NBA. Ken Bone won at Portland State. Sometimes it's not all on the coach, or even on the school making "bad" hires. At some places it's just friggin' hard to win. Comparing the Ralph Miller era to current college basketball is like comparing the Wright brothers to space travel. Some places indeed are harder to win at than others. But how much winning is relative I guess. Take Wazzu: Actually Sampson did win. They were 73-45 in his last 4 seasons including earning an 8 seed in the tourney. Bone had 3 straight winning seasons and even Eastman had two winning seasons. Others did fail completely. The margin for error is definitely much smaller at places like Pullman and Corvallis. Now that we've had two fairly recent tourney appearances and several winning seasons, the next coach is probably starting in a better place and we may have better choices now. (Obviously the budget will still be a factor). My biggest issue w/ Tinkle isn't overall, its how the last two seasons have been sooooo bad....and this after an elite 8 run. I don't think its automatic that the next coach can't raise the bar higher. CR brought in much more talent than Jay John. Tinkle has taken two teams much further than CR ever did. Therefore, why couldn't the next coach be able to do more than Tinkle did? Just a thought.... |
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Post by beaverology on Jan 27, 2023 12:31:00 GMT -8
I love the WSU analogy. It's accurate. WSU and OSU share the same challenges. Tony Bennett is one of the premiere coaches in NCAA MBB. He took the job at WSU and had good results, results that would be acceptable to most. After 3 years, he was plucked and accepted a promotion for a better job, and look what happened to WSU. Did Bennett elevate the program? Only as long as he was there. It quickly returned to historic norms. And like the laws of gravity, the OSU program is subject to the same forces. With the advent of the internet, social media, streaming services, NIL, Nike, etc , OSU finds itself with even more disadvantages than they did in 1980. There's only one way out, and I don't think OSU and Barnes want to spend that kind of money.
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Post by beaver94 on Jan 27, 2023 12:54:11 GMT -8
All I know is that someone needs to tell Taylor to stop driving into the paint only to commit a turnover. He has his good points, but finishing in the key is not one of them. I agree that he needs to work on his driving. I do think that finishing in the key is one of his good points though, at least once he gets to the basket. I think defenses have adjusted to him and know the moves likes to use to get to the hoop. It's up to him to go to the next level and beat the defenses now. It's not fun at this time to watch him drive then get stuck with no plan on what to do next only to turn it over. |
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Jan 27, 2023 13:00:11 GMT -8
All I know is that someone needs to tell Taylor to stop driving into the paint only to commit a turnover. He has his good points, but finishing in the key is not one of them. I agree that he needs to work on his driving. I do think that finishing in the key is one of his good points though, at least once he gets to the basket. I think defenses have adjusted to him and know the moves likes to use to get to the hoop. It's up to him to go to the next level and beat the defenses now. It's not fun at this time to watch him drive then get stuck with no plan on what to do next only to turn it over. I agree. But when hardly anyone or no one is moving (like most possessions), sometimes you don't have another option other than to put your foot down hard and try to get to the basket. |
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Post by beaver94 on Jan 27, 2023 13:14:04 GMT -8
I agree that he needs to work on his driving. I do think that finishing in the key is one of his good points though, at least once he gets to the basket. I think defenses have adjusted to him and know the moves likes to use to get to the hoop. It's up to him to go to the next level and beat the defenses now. It's not fun at this time to watch him drive then get stuck with no plan on what to do next only to turn it over. I agree. But when hardly anyone or no one is moving (like most possessions), sometimes you don't have another option other than to put your foot down hard and try to get to the basket. This is true too and I have seen him make some nice passes on drives when there's a play to be made. Lots to be frustrated with this year. Not making excuses for coaching, but it's a really young team with no true center. Hopefully they stick around. I think they could be really fun to watch in a year or two. |
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Post by beaverology on Jan 27, 2023 13:21:27 GMT -8
The Beavs will have Garvin Marrs coming in plus WT will need to replace Rod Andela and maybe Chol (medical retirement?), so I'd look for at least 2, maybe 3 new bigs coming in to bolster KC Ibekwe. Not having Chol available has hurt the Beavs defense.
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Jan 27, 2023 13:27:40 GMT -8
Why cant we see more of KC in games we're getting blown out anyway?
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Post by ag87 on Jan 27, 2023 14:43:52 GMT -8
All I know is that someone needs to tell Taylor to stop driving into the paint only to commit a turnover. He has his good points, but finishing in the key is not one of them. I agree that he needs to work on his driving. I do think that finishing in the key is one of his good points though, at least once he gets to the basket. I think defenses have adjusted to him and know the moves likes to use to get to the hoop. It's up to him to go to the next level and beat the defenses now. It's not fun at this time to watch him drive then get stuck with no plan on what to do next only to turn it over. he needs to keep those first two steps then be able to stop, elevate, and knock down 14-footers. He does that and then there will be more opportunities to get to the rim |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jan 27, 2023 15:20:44 GMT -8
30 years of Beaver MBB = Titanic deck furniture. Is there a school in the Pac12 that cares less about MBB? Why let it toy with your emotions? Stanford. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jan 27, 2023 15:25:24 GMT -8
See, we've got someone who thinks all we have to do is fire WT and the MBB will self correct. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.". Firing WT and bringing in the next 'hot shot' coach who's gonna change the MBB program aint happening with the current state of the OSU MBB program. Who thinks we're only one coach away from transforming the program into a winner? I know you're out there. I think Oregon St can do better, that’s all. Tinkle had his moments, just not enough and not frequently enough. I think the sample size is large enough to say it is what it is. |
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Post by lebaneaver on Jan 28, 2023 18:58:42 GMT -8
See, we've got someone who thinks all we have to do is fire WT and the MBB will self correct. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.". Firing WT and bringing in the next 'hot shot' coach who's gonna change the MBB program aint happening with the current state of the OSU MBB program. Who thinks we're only one coach away from transforming the program into a winner? I know you're out there. I think Oregon St can do better, that’s all. Tinkle had his moments, just not enough and not frequently enough. I think the sample size is large enough to say it is what it is. I'm NOT sure OSU can do better.....or CARES enough to DO better, but the sample size is ENOUGH. |
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