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Post by bvrbred on Dec 22, 2022 16:58:10 GMT -8
Yeah, Jonathan spoke to exactly that, the expected loss of O-line experience after next year, in his signing day press conference.
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Post by bdudbeaver on Dec 22, 2022 18:03:56 GMT -8
Always nice to have a coach that is looking two years ahead...
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Dec 22, 2022 18:38:41 GMT -8
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Post by RenoBeaver on Dec 22, 2022 18:38:41 GMT -8
I 110% trust JS judgement. If we don't land one he was either too expensive, not a good fit, or not viewed by the staff as an upgrade to BG or Chiles. Well I trust JS's judgement too, just not necessarily his ability to land a big-time QB. Chiles notwithstanding, JS has pretty consistently struck out on his top QB targets every year since he's been coach (the state of the program at the time didn't help, I know). So I don't think those three scenarios you laid out are the only possibilities for why we won't land a quality QB from the portal. Couple thoughts. OSU was absolutely horrible when JS arrived and he had no standing whatsoever as a successful HC. Many felt his success as an OC was more related to riding Petersens coattails. Also...his offense isn't particularly conducive to QBs who want to throw 40 or 50 times a game or run a read option. OSU doesn't run a hurry up...it huddles up and burns the clock and relies heavily on the run. Your point is true. But there are certainly caveats to consider when analyzing his past QB recruiting. He did land a top 30 QB in the recruiting class after OSUs first winning season in years...so the correlation exists. And surely there are some transfers sniffing around...but the big names are likely looking for a big fat NIL payout. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 22, 2022 19:22:20 GMT -8
Well I trust JS's judgement too, just not necessarily his ability to land a big-time QB. Chiles notwithstanding, JS has pretty consistently struck out on his top QB targets every year since he's been coach (the state of the program at the time didn't help, I know). So I don't think those three scenarios you laid out are the only possibilities for why we won't land a quality QB from the portal. Couple thoughts. OSU was absolutely horrible when JS arrived and he had no standing whatsoever as a successful HC. Many felt his success as an OC was more related to riding Petersens coattails. Also...his offense isn't particularly conducive to QBs who want to throw 40 or 50 times a game or run a read option. OSU doesn't run a hurry up...it huddles up and burns the clock and relies heavily on the run. Your point is true. But there are certainly caveats to consider when analyzing his past QB recruiting. He did land a top 30 QB in the recruiting class after OSUs first winning season in years...so the correlation exists. And surely there are some transfers sniffing around...but the big names are likely looking for a big fat NIL payout. I will say, that what we saw this year is not his offense. He just adapted to the players he had. With better QB play, he would open it up a bit. |
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Dec 22, 2022 19:56:06 GMT -8
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Post by jimbeav on Dec 22, 2022 19:56:06 GMT -8
Couple thoughts. OSU was absolutely horrible when JS arrived and he had no standing whatsoever as a successful HC. Many felt his success as an OC was more related to riding Petersens coattails. Also...his offense isn't particularly conducive to QBs who want to throw 40 or 50 times a game or run a read option. OSU doesn't run a hurry up...it huddles up and burns the clock and relies heavily on the run. Your point is true. But there are certainly caveats to consider when analyzing his past QB recruiting. He did land a top 30 QB in the recruiting class after OSUs first winning season in years...so the correlation exists. And surely there are some transfers sniffing around...but the big names are likely looking for a big fat NIL payout. I will say, that what we saw this year is not his offense. He just adapted to the players he had. With better QB play, he would open it up a bit. I would like to think this is true (and have thought that myself), but Jake Luton was definitely a QB that allowed us to 'open it up a bit', but his senior year didn't really demonstrate that about Smith/Lindgren's offense. 2022: 322 passing attempts for 2954 yds. 2019: 419 passing attempts for 3061 yds. Yes, a lot more pass attempts, but way less yards per attempt and not much additional offensive production. Individually, Luton had 7.6 yds/attempt in 2019, while Gulbranson had 7.5 yds/attempt this year, and Nolan had 8.5 yards/attempt in 2022 and 8.4 yds/attempt in 2021. Color me surprised that Nolan had a higher Y/A than Luton; my recollection is that Luton's offense seemed to run a lot smoother, but I guess my memory has smoothed that out over time... |
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 22, 2022 20:08:18 GMT -8
I will say, that what we saw this year is not his offense. He just adapted to the players he had. With better QB play, he would open it up a bit. I would like to think this is true (and have thought that myself), but Jake Luton was definitely a QB that allowed us to 'open it up a bit', but his senior year didn't really demonstrate that about Smith/Lindgren's offense. 2022: 322 passing attempts for 2954 yds. 2019: 419 passing attempts for 3061 yds. Yes, a lot more pass attempts, but way less yards per attempt and not much additional offensive production. Individually, Luton had 7.6 yds/attempt in 2019, while Gulbranson had 7.5 yds/attempt this year, and Nolan had 8.5 yards/attempt in 2022 and 8.4 yds/attempt in 2021. Color me surprised that Nolan had a higher Y/A than Luton; my recollection is that Luton's offense seemed to run a lot smoother, but I guess my memory has smoothed that out over time... We had 2,594 passing yards this year, not 2,954. And Gulbranson had only 1,455. Luton had 2,714 on his own in 2019. Luton also threw for 28 TD’s. Gulbranson had 9. No comparison. |
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Dec 22, 2022 22:52:40 GMT -8
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 22, 2022 22:52:40 GMT -8
I will say, that what we saw this year is not his offense. He just adapted to the players he had. With better QB play, he would open it up a bit. I would like to think this is true (and have thought that myself), but Jake Luton was definitely a QB that allowed us to 'open it up a bit', but his senior year didn't really demonstrate that about Smith/Lindgren's offense. 2022: 322 passing attempts for 2954 yds. 2019: 419 passing attempts for 3061 yds. Yes, a lot more pass attempts, but way less yards per attempt and not much additional offensive production. Individually, Luton had 7.6 yds/attempt in 2019, while Gulbranson had 7.5 yds/attempt this year, and Nolan had 8.5 yards/attempt in 2022 and 8.4 yds/attempt in 2021. Color me surprised that Nolan had a higher Y/A than Luton; my recollection is that Luton's offense seemed to run a lot smoother, but I guess my memory has smoothed that out over time... There were several drops early on this year which would have increased Nolan's YPA even higher. Smith had repeatedly said, at least while Nolan was QB, that he wanted to complete those deep throws. The moment Nolan was out I don't recall him saying that again. Perhaps he was trying to push for the offense he thought his QB was capable of? |
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Dec 23, 2022 6:18:27 GMT -8
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Post by RenoBeaver on Dec 23, 2022 6:18:27 GMT -8
I would like to think this is true (and have thought that myself), but Jake Luton was definitely a QB that allowed us to 'open it up a bit', but his senior year didn't really demonstrate that about Smith/Lindgren's offense. 2022: 322 passing attempts for 2954 yds. 2019: 419 passing attempts for 3061 yds. Yes, a lot more pass attempts, but way less yards per attempt and not much additional offensive production. Individually, Luton had 7.6 yds/attempt in 2019, while Gulbranson had 7.5 yds/attempt this year, and Nolan had 8.5 yards/attempt in 2022 and 8.4 yds/attempt in 2021. Color me surprised that Nolan had a higher Y/A than Luton; my recollection is that Luton's offense seemed to run a lot smoother, but I guess my memory has smoothed that out over time... We had 2,594 passing yards this year, not 2,954. And Gulbranson had only 1,455. Luton had 2,714 on his own in 2019. Luton also threw for 28 TD’s. Gulbranson had 9. No comparison. It's sort of an apples and oranges comparison. Luton threw more largely because OSU was either trailing or needed to score fast to keep pace because the D sucked. He also didn't have a stable of RBs to score 38 TDs. He's also way better than Nolan/Gulbranson. But to your point...I agree Smith would open the offense up if he had a better QB and receiving corp. But I also think he learned, the college football world for that matter, that with a dominating Oline and and quality stable of RBs...you can flat out dominate a follege football game and relieve pressure on your D at same time. What OSU accomplished this year we just haven't seen much in college football in recent years. It was literally the opposite of Chip Kelly/Air Raid/Tempo offense-first football. And it was glorious lol |
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Dec 23, 2022 6:19:43 GMT -8
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Post by jimbeav on Dec 23, 2022 6:19:43 GMT -8
I would like to think this is true (and have thought that myself), but Jake Luton was definitely a QB that allowed us to 'open it up a bit', but his senior year didn't really demonstrate that about Smith/Lindgren's offense. 2022: 322 passing attempts for 2954 yds. 2019: 419 passing attempts for 3061 yds. Yes, a lot more pass attempts, but way less yards per attempt and not much additional offensive production. Individually, Luton had 7.6 yds/attempt in 2019, while Gulbranson had 7.5 yds/attempt this year, and Nolan had 8.5 yards/attempt in 2022 and 8.4 yds/attempt in 2021. Color me surprised that Nolan had a higher Y/A than Luton; my recollection is that Luton's offense seemed to run a lot smoother, but I guess my memory has smoothed that out over time... We had 2,594 passing yards this year, not 2,954. And Gulbranson had only 1,455. Luton had 2,714 on his own in 2019. Luton also threw for 28 TD’s. Gulbranson had 9. No comparison. Whoops, good catch on my bad mental math typo as I manually added up our passing yards this year. I actually went to go look at the stats to confirm your point, so I'm actually relieved that my gut is correct, and that we can expect a little more offensive punch with a more consistent gunslinger back there. Comparing just Ben's TD's isn't fair since he only played half a season, but yeah, Ben and Nolan's total of 16 TD's is still a far cry from Luton's 28. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 23, 2022 8:18:54 GMT -8
Not to be that guy, but in 2019 Luton had Jermar Jefferson, Artavis Pierce, BJ Baylor and Calvin Tyler Jr. That's a pretty darn good stable of RBs.
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Post by bvrbred on Dec 23, 2022 8:42:39 GMT -8
I meant to quote the comments about Jonathan contouring the offense to the capabilities of the QB, but I messed up. Anyway, I've found it interesting that whenever Jonathan has been asked about Ben's play at pressers his comments have always been: "He's done what we've asked him." Pretty measured praise for a guy who has won that many games. Which leads me to believe JS had a plan for Ben, from day one, and it worked. We did see more deep throws from Nolan in the first three games than we were seeing later from Ben. And, my recollection is that those comments of Jonathan's about the need for more vertical passing game were made after the 2021 season was finished, in which Nolan had thrown for 2677 yards (12 games and 2 quarters). Ben just threw for 1455 (9 games and 3 quarters). I can't see Jonathan being willing to stand pat on that, unless there has been a complete change in Jonathan's offensive philosophy. |
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Dec 23, 2022 14:53:16 GMT -8
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Post by RenoBeaver on Dec 23, 2022 14:53:16 GMT -8
Not to be that guy, but in 2019 Luton had Jermar Jefferson, Artavis Pierce, BJ Baylor and Calvin Tyler Jr. That's a pretty darn good stable of RBs. I totally forgot that so point taken. Unfortunately they didnt have this oline |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 23, 2022 15:03:23 GMT -8
I meant to quote the comments about Jonathan contouring the offense to the capabilities of the QB, but I messed up. Anyway, I've found it interesting that whenever Jonathan has been asked about Ben's play at pressers his comments have always been: "He's done what we've asked him." Pretty measured praise for a guy who has won that many games. Which leads me to believe JS had a plan for Ben, from day one, and it worked. We did see more deep throws from Nolan in the first three games than we were seeing later from Ben. And, my recollection is that those comments of Jonathan's about the need for more vertical passing game were made after the 2021 season was finished, in which Nolan had thrown for 2677 yards (12 games and 2 quarters). Ben just threw for 1455 (9 games and 3 quarters). I can't see Jonathan being willing to stand pat on that, unless there has been a complete change in Jonathan's offensive philosophy. It will be interesting to see how quickly Chiles does or doesn't come along. Jonathan mentioned he's growing and up to 6'5" now. The kid just turned 17, he could be a physical monster in a couple years if he continues growing. He may be asked to do things we haven't seen from any of our QBs under Jonathan's watch so far. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Dec 23, 2022 17:10:11 GMT -8
Not to be that guy, but in 2019 Luton had Jermar Jefferson, Artavis Pierce, BJ Baylor and Calvin Tyler Jr. That's a pretty darn good stable of RBs. I totally forgot that so point taken. Unfortunately they didnt have this oline 2019 RBs ran just slightly under 2022 RBs, at 4.6 ypc compared to this years 4.9 2022 RBs ran much more. 524 carries compared to 410 in 2019. It was a really good thing we had this year's OL... with our anemic passing there is no way we get to 10 wins otherwise. Our OL took over games, against some pretty stout fronts at that. |
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Dec 23, 2022 17:26:29 GMT -8
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 23, 2022 17:26:29 GMT -8
I totally forgot that so point taken. Unfortunately they didnt have this oline 2019 RBs ran just slightly under 2022 RBs, at 4.6 ypc compared to this years 4.9 2022 RBs ran much more. 524 carries compared to 410 in 2019. It was a really good thing we had this year's OL... with our anemic passing there is no way we get to 10 wins otherwise. Our OL took over games, against some pretty stout fronts at that. People also need to realize that this year’s stats include a bowl game. It makes a big difference. Especially, with the passing stats. |
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