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Post by OSUprof on Dec 13, 2022 22:38:44 GMT -8
Firstly, Corvallis is boring and has access to a limited media network. Secondly, we are an Ag school and there is no money in that. Thirdly, we are a forestry school and there is no money in that. Fourthly, we are an engineering school whose graduates work for graduates from Cal, Stanford, UW, and UCLA, and there is no money in that. Fifthly, OSU business school is ranked 102-134, ranked behind Stanford (#3), Cal (#8), UCLA (#17), USC (#19), UW (#22), ASU (#29), UU (#40), AZ (#47), CO (#67), and UO (#72) and there is no money in working for them. Lastly, the alumni with money have spent all their cash on a stadium with a limited utility and unlikely to pony up NIL money to compete with the other, richer, universities. Intercollegiate sports at OSU will end within a decade. I've lived in Pullman and have visited Marquette in winter. Both are tougher places to be.
You do know that the current #1 schools in both MBB and football are ag schools - Purdue and Georgia. I guess they didn't get the memo. Neither did Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi State, Illinois, Auburn, Maryland, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Virginia Tech, Arkansas and Arizona. These are all ag schools currently in the top 25 - half of the current top 25 are ag schools. OSU is currently the #2 ag college in the US so we're plenty good at our craft. And I was offered a job at Mississippi State so I know that community well - Corvallis is a step up unless you like the Possum Pig Fest.
The fact that OSU is an ag school has nothing to do with OSU's ability to recruit MBB players or perform on the court. That is the domain of the MBB coaching staff.
"Intercollegiate sports at OSU will end within a decade" -- The why are you a fan or even posting here? The rest of us buy season tickets and make donations to support OSU's program. What are you doing other than making excuses as to why OSU cannot compete?
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Post by beaverology on Dec 14, 2022 7:09:18 GMT -8
You take WT out of Corvallis and put him as HC of MBB in Palo Alto and wah laa, he suddenly can recruit 5 star kids. Why is that? And let's take the current Stanford coach, Jerrod Haase, and put him as HC in Corvallis, now he doesn't get 4 and 5 star kids, only 3 stars. Why is that? Because the school dictates and influences recruiting more than a HC. This model works the same with switching HCs with the Arizona MBB program. Prove me wrong. And don't use some extreme example like Coach K coming to Corvallis to disprove it. Sure, he would, but he's never coming to Corvallis.
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Post by jdogge on Dec 14, 2022 8:16:29 GMT -8
Firstly, Corvallis is boring and has access to a limited media network. Secondly, we are an Ag school and there is no money in that. Thirdly, we are a forestry school and there is no money in that. Fourthly, we are an engineering school whose graduates work for graduates from Cal, Stanford, UW, and UCLA, and there is no money in that. Fifthly, OSU business school is ranked 102-134, ranked behind Stanford (#3), Cal (#8), UCLA (#17), USC (#19), UW (#22), ASU (#29), UU (#40), AZ (#47), CO (#67), and UO (#72) and there is no money in working for them. Lastly, the alumni with money have spent all their cash on a stadium with a limited utility and unlikely to pony up NIL money to compete with the other, richer, universities. Intercollegiate sports at OSU will end within a decade. I've lived in Pullman and have visited Marquette in winter. Both are tougher places to be.
You do know that the current #1 schools in both MBB and football are ag schools - Purdue and Georgia. I guess they didn't get the memo. Neither did Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi State, Illinois, Auburn, Maryland, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Virginia Tech, Arkansas and Arizona. These are all ag schools currently in the top 25 - half of the current top 25 are ag schools. OSU is currently the #2 ag college in the US so we're plenty good at our craft. And I was offered a job at Mississippi State so I know that community well - Corvallis is a step up unless you like the Possum Pig Fest.
The fact that OSU is an ag school has nothing to do with OSU's ability to recruit MBB players or perform on the court. That is the domain of the MBB coaching staff.
"Intercollegiate sports at OSU will end within a decade" -- The why are you a fan or even posting here? The rest of us buy season tickets and make donations to support OSU's program. What are you doing other than making excuses as to why OSU cannot compete?
I find it interesting that you focused on Ag and not forestry or business or civil engineering. I also like that you did not address the other reasons I stated -- Corvallis being boring and not having an alumni base economically capable or willing to pony up the NIL dollars. Further, I like how you used the SEC and Big 10 to argue your point which have become the minor leagues for the NFL. I focused exclusively on Pac 12 members in my discussion. So, apples and oranges. The fact that you buy season tickets is irrelevant to an assessment of the NIL issue and its affect on intercollegiate economics. OSU does not have the alumni enrichment programs -- Law school, medical school, top-20 business, engineering programs, and computer science programs that other Pac 12 universities have. Let's look at that: Engineering: Stanford #2 Cal #3 USC #15 UCLA #16 CU #23 UW #24 ASU $40 UU #57 UA #64 OSU #43 Computer Sciences Stanford #2 Cal #3 UW #6 UCLA #11 USC #23 CU #38 UU #43 ASU #49 UA also #49 OSU #63 So, let's stick to facts rather than, as your final comments do, focus on attempts at gaslighting. |
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Post by irimi on Dec 14, 2022 9:01:09 GMT -8
To me, it boils down to reputation. Kids are going to select the school that will get them to the next level. So what does that entail? Simple: a tradition of developing players that feed into the NBA/NFL. Consistency proven through time.
We are always happy to see that one Beaver player out there in the pros (see the thread on Super Bowl), but some colleges have many players in the pros. Kids know. Kids want the straightest path possible to their dream.
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Post by beaverology on Dec 14, 2022 9:10:14 GMT -8
The OSU MBB program lost their way after Ralph retired. Don't want to point fingers but it was 25 years of decline. WT is the best HC we've had since Ralph. He'll probably get fired in 2 years. The Beaver program does have a savior in training, a young HC waiting for the right time. Can anybody name him?
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Post by ochobeavo on Dec 14, 2022 9:16:25 GMT -8
To me, it boils down to reputation. Kids are going to select the school that will get them to the next level. So what does that entail? Simple: a tradition of developing players that feed into the NBA/NFL. Consistency proven through time. We are always happy to see that one Beaver player out there in the pros (see the thread on Super Bowl), but some colleges have many players in the pros. Kids know. Kids want the straightest path possible to their dream. Yeah that's my take - it's reputation, developing players and getting them to the NBA. It's not because we're an Ag school or where we are geographically located - plenty of people have won in locations like Corvallis. If you build it, they will come. Our baseball program seems to have figured it out. Gonzaga figured it out, schools like Iowa State have had plenty of success in the past 20 years. I would think Ames itself isn't exactly a big draw. An 18 yr old kid has no clue who Ralph Miller is.. Never saw Gary Payton play. We haven't put any significant players in the NBA during their lifetime. We have 1 (?) winning conf record in 18 years. Definitely a catch-22 like someone earlier pointed out and probably takes catching lightning in a bottle from a coaching standpoint. Cool. Now I'm depressed. |
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Post by OSUprof on Dec 14, 2022 9:19:32 GMT -8
I've lived in Pullman and have visited Marquette in winter. Both are tougher places to be.
You do know that the current #1 schools in both MBB and football are ag schools - Purdue and Georgia. I guess they didn't get the memo. Neither did Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi State, Illinois, Auburn, Maryland, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Virginia Tech, Arkansas and Arizona. These are all ag schools currently in the top 25 - half of the current top 25 are ag schools. OSU is currently the #2 ag college in the US so we're plenty good at our craft. And I was offered a job at Mississippi State so I know that community well - Corvallis is a step up unless you like the Possum Pig Fest.
The fact that OSU is an ag school has nothing to do with OSU's ability to recruit MBB players or perform on the court. That is the domain of the MBB coaching staff.
"Intercollegiate sports at OSU will end within a decade" -- The why are you a fan or even posting here? The rest of us buy season tickets and make donations to support OSU's program. What are you doing other than making excuses as to why OSU cannot compete?
I find it interesting that you focused on Ag and not forestry or business or civil engineering. I also like that you did not address the other reasons I stated -- Corvallis being boring and not having an alumni base economically capable or willing to pony up the NIL dollars. Further, I like how you used the SEC and Big 10 to argue your point which have become the minor leagues for the NFL. I focused exclusively on Pac 12 members in my discussion. So, apples and oranges. The fact that you buy season tickets is irrelevant to an assessment of the NIL issue and its affect on intercollegiate economics. OSU does not have the alumni enrichment programs -- Law school, medical school, top-20 business, engineering programs, and computer science programs that other Pac 12 universities have. Let's look at that: Engineering: Stanford #2 Cal #3 USC #15 UCLA #16 CU #23 UW #24 ASU $40 UU #57 UA #64 OSU #43 Computer Sciences Stanford #2 Cal #3 UW #6 UCLA #11 USC #23 CU #38 UU #43 ASU #49 UA also #49 OSU #63 So, let's stick to facts rather than, as your final comments do, focus on attempts at gaslighting. You were so wrong on the ag part - you know the part that you led with, that I didn't feel compelled to follow up with the others. How many MBB players are engineering and computer sciences majors? Does this really matter and how does this affect the coaching staff and their fortunes in recruiting? That is the topic of the discussion.
Again, I ask why do you even post if you believe that the future for OSU is so bleak?
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 14, 2022 9:36:20 GMT -8
To me, it boils down to reputation. Kids are going to select the school that will get them to the next level. So what does that entail? Simple: a tradition of developing players that feed into the NBA/NFL. Consistency proven through time. We are always happy to see that one Beaver player out there in the pros (see the thread on Super Bowl), but some colleges have many players in the pros. Kids know. Kids want the straightest path possible to their dream. You are kinda short changing our list of Beavs on an NFL roster. I'm seeing 20 this year Here that are either playing, on a practice squad or on injured reserve. To get a former Beaver into the last 9 years worth of Super Bowls it takes a bunch of Beavers. 20 is not that bad of a number. Other than that, I totally agree with your thesis. |
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Post by beaverology on Dec 14, 2022 9:49:03 GMT -8
Drew Eubanks and GPII plus the Elite 8 run is a start. Turning the OSU MBB battleship will take time after 25 years.
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Post by jdogge on Dec 14, 2022 9:59:27 GMT -8
I find it interesting that you focused on Ag and not forestry or business or civil engineering. I also like that you did not address the other reasons I stated -- Corvallis being boring and not having an alumni base economically capable or willing to pony up the NIL dollars. Further, I like how you used the SEC and Big 10 to argue your point which have become the minor leagues for the NFL. I focused exclusively on Pac 12 members in my discussion. So, apples and oranges. The fact that you buy season tickets is irrelevant to an assessment of the NIL issue and its affect on intercollegiate economics. OSU does not have the alumni enrichment programs -- Law school, medical school, top-20 business, engineering programs, and computer science programs that other Pac 12 universities have. Let's look at that: Engineering: Stanford #2 Cal #3 USC #15 UCLA #16 CU #23 UW #24 ASU $40 UU #57 UA #64 OSU #43 Computer Sciences Stanford #2 Cal #3 UW #6 UCLA #11 USC #23 CU #38 UU #43 ASU #49 UA also #49 OSU #63 So, let's stick to facts rather than, as your final comments do, focus on attempts at gaslighting. that started this post? You were so wrong on the ag part - you know the part that you led with, that I didn't feel compelled to follow up with the others. How many MBB players are engineering and computer sciences majors? Does this really matter and how does this affect the coaching staff and their fortunes in recruiting? That is the topic of the discussion.
Again, I ask why do you even post if you believe that the future for OSU is so bleak?
So, because I understand where college sports are heading, I don't have the right to weigh in on the question that started this thread? Let's see ... " What is the problem? I'd like to hear some reasons/explanations other than WT, CJS and Legi are bad recruiters." I addressed the question and you ignored it and put the blame on the coaches -- which the OP specifically requested not be done. What exactly do you teach? Because reading comprehension, research, and analytical reasoning don't appear to be parts of your skillset? |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837 
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Dec 14, 2022 12:04:12 GMT -8
I had a big "aha moment" several years ago when I visited Austin TX on a business trip and we went downtown for a team building dinner/activity at Tough Guy Cinema (Alamo Drafthouse, I believe). I had a similar epiphany when we had a team building night in Seattle playing Whirlyball. Austin downtown appeared to be about the size of Corvallis, and was a very "target rich environment" for all sorts of interests and proclivities not sustainable in a town like Corvallis. There are athletes who see distractions as what they are, and look closely at the education, the coaching staff, the team comradery, the go-pro potential, are capable and value self- and team-generated entertainment over the bright lights and manufactured entertainment, are capable of delayed gratification, etc. etc. Then there are the typical 18 year olds. And unscrupulous coaches, and lots of distractions, and now NILs that can feed "get it now" over delayed gratification prospects of the pros, and the transfer portal to sample multiple "bright light, big city" scenarios. We need to attract the more grounded athlete to Corvallis for the constraints that Corvallis, OSU, the priority of athletics at a state school, etc. etc. places on us. But there are lots of other attractive programs that are also looking for those "grounded" athletes (and I submit even the unscrupulous coaches want some of those as well, but I'll leave that for a different day). So now a track record really helps. Stars in the pros, recent success, good team chemistry..... And this is why there is so much angst about WT in my head. Any prospect can do the research (or have it provided to them on the recruiting trail) that can point out the dismal record under WT to go along with the Elite 8. Or point out the mass exodus. And WT also has to fight history. We have spent 40 years squandering any forward momentum we build up (his reign included). We've also had some bad luck - untimely injuries, homesickess, academic/medical casualties and deaths among them. Between all of that, it will be a tough slog for MBB to recruit top shelf talent. With the NIL and portal, it will be tough to keep "diamonds in the rough" that we might discover and/or develop. The good news is, these mechanisms and limitations can work in our favor as well - disillusioned "bright lights" kids looking for fewer distractions, working the transfer portal, landing top-shelf talent that gets edged out by other top-shelf talent. I actually think WT has done a good job this year finding players with good potential, now he just has to deliver a positive track record and keep some forward momentum going. Easier said than done. Go Beavers! |
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Post by ag87 on Dec 14, 2022 13:14:12 GMT -8
We were apparently doomed once the coaching staff ran out of talented and recruitable sons. Was hoping for some more with the latest shuffling of deck chairs, but no such luck. Anybody want to wish for another pandemic to recreate the perfect storm of circumstances that allowed for the "Great Eight" run? Firstly, Corvallis is boring and has access to a limited media network. Secondly, we are an Ag school and there is no money in that. Thirdly, we are a forestry school and there is no money in that. Fourthly, we are an engineering school whose graduates work for graduates from Cal, Stanford, UW, and UCLA, and there is no money in that.Fifthly, OSU business school is ranked 102-134, ranked behind Stanford (#3), Cal (#8), UCLA (#17), USC (#19), UW (#22), ASU (#29), UU (#40), AZ (#47), CO (#67), and UO (#72) and there is no money in working for them. Lastly, the alumni with money have spent all their cash on a stadium with a limited utility and unlikely to pony up NIL money to compete with the other, richer, universities. Intercollegiate sports at OSU will end within a decade. You have no idea. I'm a retired civil engineer. Going back through my career my bosses were grads of Portland and Washington, then Missouri, then OSU (2) and Rensselaer Polytechnic, then North Dakota State, and finally Kansas State and Ohio State. I know a few engineers that made serious money but they flipped over from the consultant side to the owner side. And there are plenty of civil engineers that live very comfortably. And finally there are EE's that were able to cash out in their forties and live more than comfortably. |
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Post by irimi on Dec 14, 2022 13:35:38 GMT -8
To me, it boils down to reputation. Kids are going to select the school that will get them to the next level. So what does that entail? Simple: a tradition of developing players that feed into the NBA/NFL. Consistency proven through time. We are always happy to see that one Beaver player out there in the pros (see the thread on Super Bowl), but some colleges have many players in the pros. Kids know. Kids want the straightest path possible to their dream. You are kinda short changing our list of Beavs on an NFL roster. I'm seeing 20 this year Here that are either playing, on a practice squad or on injured reserve. To get a former Beaver into the last 9 years worth of Super Bowls it takes a bunch of Beavers. 20 is not that bad of a number. Other than that, I totally agree with your thesis. Ohio State has 62 in the NFL. USC has 31. Clemson has 37. I think it would be interesting to see how many were straight up drafted and how many had to fight to make it. And then look at the rounds they go. The real question is how much buzz the player receives in the press. Like Adley going top pick. That bought tons of recognition points. Or Mariotta winning the Heisman or Justin Herbert performing well with the Chargers. It all adds up, but kids are choosing where to go based on what they think will give them the best shot. |
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Post by jdogge on Dec 14, 2022 13:43:05 GMT -8
Firstly, Corvallis is boring and has access to a limited media network. Secondly, we are an Ag school and there is no money in that. Thirdly, we are a forestry school and there is no money in that. Fourthly, we are an engineering school whose graduates work for graduates from Cal, Stanford, UW, and UCLA, and there is no money in that.Fifthly, OSU business school is ranked 102-134, ranked behind Stanford (#3), Cal (#8), UCLA (#17), USC (#19), UW (#22), ASU (#29), UU (#40), AZ (#47), CO (#67), and UO (#72) and there is no money in working for them. Lastly, the alumni with money have spent all their cash on a stadium with a limited utility and unlikely to pony up NIL money to compete with the other, richer, universities. Intercollegiate sports at OSU will end within a decade. You have no idea. I'm a retired civil engineer. Going back through my career my bosses were grads of Portland and Washington, then Missouri, then OSU (2) and Rensselaer Polytechnic, then North Dakota State, and finally Kansas State and Ohio State. I know a few engineers that made serious money but they flipped over from the consultant side to the owner side. And there are plenty of civil engineers that live very comfortably. And finally there are EE's that were able to cash out in their forties and live more than comfortably. My daughter is a structural engineer. I've hired civils and geotechs as consultants. They aren't rolling in $$. So, I do know. But here's a rule about fundraising -- if you want to raise $10 mil, half of that must come from one source. You know many civil engineers who can come up with spare change like that? I know a few. You need to stop arguing that the exception to the rule applies to all. Five-stars are now demanding a minimum of $1 mil to commit. Are OSU civil alums going to come up with that? Comfortable does not equal $10-20 mil a year for NIL contributions. And will local endorsement deals go to OSU grads or UO grads. |
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Post by OSUprof on Dec 14, 2022 16:16:16 GMT -8
You were so wrong on the ag part - you know the part that you led with, that I didn't feel compelled to follow up with the others. How many MBB players are engineering and computer sciences majors? Does this really matter and how does this affect the coaching staff and their fortunes in recruiting? That is the topic of the discussion.
Again, I ask why do you even post if you believe that the future for OSU is so bleak?
So, because I understand where college sports are heading, I don't have the right to weigh in on the question that started this thread? Let's see ... " What is the problem? I'd like to hear some reasons/explanations other than WT, CJS and Legi are bad recruiters." I addressed the question and you ignored it and put the blame on the coaches -- which the OP specifically requested not be done. What exactly do you teach? Because reading comprehension, research, and analytical reasoning don't appear to be parts of your skillset? I didn't write that you had no right to your opinion - I just didn't understand why you care since you've carefully explained that there's no future in sports at OSU. I usually move on when I feel this way about something but I can see your point.
I have not stated here that I believe that Tinkle is a bad recruiter and did not place any blame on him. My exact quote is "The fact that OSU is an ag school has nothing to do with OSU's ability to recruit MBB players or perform on the court. That is the domain of the MBB coaching staff" I was disputing whether OSU being an ag school had any bearing on recruiting or coaching. There's nothing in my post about the quality of either but you've written that I have anyway. Talk about bad reading comprehension.
I recall that many complained about the defense in football would only get better when the talent got better. A few weeks later, Coach Smith fired Tibesar and replaced him with Bray. The defense got better with little change in the roster. Turned out the talent was fine and that Smith and his staff are decent recruiters and have no problem getting the talent they need at that ag school in boring Corvallis.
I reject the notion that recruiting at OSU is too difficult for coaches to be successful - the premise of this discussion. It is indeed hard but not impossible. 9-3 says otherwise.
I no longer teach. That was the hardest part of my job to give up when I left my position as professor. Now 113 STEM faculty at your favorite university call me boss. You can have the last word and I will not bother to reply.
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