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Post by irimi on Nov 17, 2022 6:15:36 GMT -8
To me, health information is different from sports injury information. That was pushed by at least one specific person to be added to the law. It's weird anyway, because if the injury is sustained in a game, it's public knowledge. I'm not saying that the general public needs every little detail. It doesn't. But the coaches certainly can say (and most do) whether or not a player is out for the season or day-to-day or that they hope to get the player back before the end of the season. However, there are no specific rules against injury reports and it seems that those reports can be somewhat detailed...here is a section from a sports betting report done by legalsportsreport: "HIPAA is not a meaningful obstacle to releasing reliable medical information useful to books and bettors and eliminating a market for information. It is simply a red herring, as athletes could be expected to waive limited rights for the release of certain medical information. Additionally, the information necessary for release need not be exceptionally detailed to protect the integrity of athletes and betting markets." And an individual player can give every little bit of info to someone who asks if they so choose. I think some players (not just in football) think that they can't talk about it or are being told not to. But it's really their choice. Basically, coaches are just choosing to keep the info close to their vests. It's an interesting subject. How does it benefit Beaver football as a whole to release that information? It just satisfies our curiosity. On the other hand, it gives bettors info and the opposing team info. Why should Beaver football care about either of these? As a fan, I know enough and I know that we’ll know more at an appropriate time.
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Post by speakthetruth on Nov 17, 2022 6:43:03 GMT -8
Have no idea how severe his injury is. But watching the replay his neck was bent in half. Surprised that if it is a concussion that's all it was/is.
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Post by seastape on Nov 17, 2022 6:52:47 GMT -8
Put me down in the camp of people who are curious about injury information, sometimes dying to know, but at the same time absolutely respect the right to privacy of each individual player and know that, in the end, it is none of our business.
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Post by grayman on Nov 17, 2022 14:13:37 GMT -8
I would say that on the whole, freedom of information is more valuable and better than allowing information to be hidden. Remember when the UO was forced to release documents on (I believe it was the alleged sexual assault scandal with the men's hoops program)? How did you react when you saw those documents and they were so heavily redacted it basically was unreadable? Outrage? Granted, not allowing a full disclosure of football injuries is not even close to the same level, but it's the same principle. It seems that it can be a slippery slope. I know coaches believe that injury information might give a leg up to the opponent, but how often does that really happen? If a key player is out, how does keeping that info secret help in the next game? Usually the opponent will be able to take advantage of the fact that it might be a lesser player out there. If a key player is returning, how does keeping that info secret help? The opponents watch plenty of film. They'll be ready if the player is back. It's really more about control.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 17, 2022 14:56:25 GMT -8
Does the university or the athletic department itself have policies about releasing medical records of students or athletes without express permission? With today’s litigiousness it wouldn’t surprise me that coaches have at a minimum have been advised not to release specifics.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 17, 2022 20:47:41 GMT -8
Does the university or the athletic department itself have policies about releasing medical records of students or athletes without express permission? With today’s litigiousness it wouldn’t surprise me that coaches have at a minimum have been advised not to release specifics. Players can sign a waiver. Most don't.
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Post by seastape on Nov 17, 2022 21:34:03 GMT -8
I would say that on the whole, freedom of information is more valuable and better than allowing information to be hidden. Remember when the UO was forced to release documents on (I believe it was the alleged sexual assault scandal with the men's hoops program)? How did you react when you saw those documents and they were so heavily redacted it basically was unreadable? Outrage? Granted, not allowing a full disclosure of football injuries is not even close to the same level, but it's the same principle. It seems that it can be a slippery slope. I know coaches believe that injury information might give a leg up to the opponent, but how often does that really happen? If a key player is out, how does keeping that info secret help in the next game? Usually the opponent will be able to take advantage of the fact that it might be a lesser player out there. If a key player is returning, how does keeping that info secret help? The opponents watch plenty of film. They'll be ready if the player is back. It's really more about control. Freedom of information is good in a lot of cases, but not all, not by any stretch. Medical information is a paramount exception to that general rule. It is one of a handful of types of information that is protected from disclosure by very specific federal and state law. It is nobody's business but the person to whom the information regards and their doctor. In rare cases an employer may be allowed access to the information if an employee's job is dependent on a certain level of health. Health insurance companies require it for coverage. Athletic coaches probably can as well by contract. For the rest of us, it is none of our business and that is a good thing. The protection of medical information is nothing compared to information that one can obtain through the Freedom of Information Act. There is no slippery slope. Medical information of others is none of your business. Nor is criminal information beyond what the public can access in a public court file. In a typical case, that usually is limited to the original filing of the criminal charges, motions and responses written by the attorneys on the case (unless they are ordered sealed), and dockets/minute orders that show the results of a criminal hearing. Most states do not allow the release of police reports and other discovery to the general public. That is a good thing. If a criminal case results in sex-offender registration, like the uo players should have gotten, then that is public record as well. But police reports, medical exams pertaining to the case and other such information is also none of your business, especially because so much of it is often not entirely, if at all, true. It is not about control. If politicians or other societal leaders are bottling up information that is relevant to the public, then that is about control. Everything else is about privacy and keeping the public's nose out of people's private business.
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Post by grayman on Nov 17, 2022 22:21:55 GMT -8
Except that HIPAA does not preclude coaches from putting out injury reports. It just doesn't. Furthermore, fans can sit around and discuss Nolan's injury all they want. Is every injury they know about none of their business? If you think so, it's just your opinion. It's not the law.
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Post by jdogge on Nov 17, 2022 22:50:34 GMT -8
If I were the coach I would not be so quick to release injury information from a strategic basis. Why should the coach say "Hey! Nolan will start on Saturday!" when his silence could have the opposition preparing for Gulbranson and Gebbia?
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 17, 2022 23:33:07 GMT -8
Except that HIPAA does not preclude coaches from putting out injury reports. It just doesn't. Furthermore, fans can sit around and discuss Nolan's injury all they want. Is every injury they know about none of their business? If you think so, it's just your opinion. It's not the law. HIPAA has nothing to do with it, university or athletic department policy likely does. Harry Schrimshander says the school has a waiver on the release of medical info most athletes don't sign. Assuming that is true, and I've no reason to think it isn't, releasing info on a kid who hasn't signed that waiver is an open invitation for a lawsuit. The debate should be over at that point.
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Post by korculabeav on Nov 18, 2022 3:31:11 GMT -8
All they have to say is”Musgrave is out 2-3 weeks” or “Fenwick is doubtful for ASU”. I don’t want medical records or specifics on the injury. That is HIPPAA and is fine. The fact OSU is completely moot on Lowe, etc on timeline or status for next game is what is frustrating.
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 18, 2022 5:40:46 GMT -8
Except that HIPAA does not preclude coaches from putting out injury reports. It just doesn't. Furthermore, fans can sit around and discuss Nolan's injury all they want. Is every injury they know about none of their business? If you think so, it's just your opinion. It's not the law. HIPAA has nothing to do with it, university or athletic department policy likely does. Harry Schrimshander says the school has a waiver on the release of medical info most athletes don't sign. Assuming that is true, and I've no reason to think it isn't, releasing info on a kid who hasn't signed that waiver is an open invitation for a lawsuit. The debate should be over at that point. The reason they have to sign a waiver is HIPAA. So, it does have something to do with it.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 18, 2022 9:30:43 GMT -8
Except that HIPAA does not preclude coaches from putting out injury reports. It just doesn't. Furthermore, fans can sit around and discuss Nolan's injury all they want. Is every injury they know about none of their business? If you think so, it's just your opinion. It's not the law. HIPAA has nothing to do with it, university or athletic department policy likely does. Harry Schrimshander says the school has a waiver on the release of medical info most athletes don't sign. Assuming that is true, and I've no reason to think it isn't, releasing info on a kid who hasn't signed that waiver is an open invitation for a lawsuit. The debate should be over at that point. HIPAA does have something to do with it to the extend that the university's staff (trainers, contracted doctors, etc) are covered entities. I believe Oregon State still contracts with Beavers Sports Medicine for orthopedics and I believe has a partnership with Samaritan for other services. These are business associates and covered entities and subject to HIPAA. I am not going to act like I completely understand the relationship, but I suspect that whatever waivers that players sign, are waivers between these entities and the coach. the waivers that enable the team doctors and contractors to discuss injuries with coaches. Smith isn't a covered entity. He can, technically, say anything he wants with the information he gets, because he is, most assuredly, allowed to receive the information because the players, most assuredly, have provided explicit consent for doctors to share that information with coaches. Smith, correctly, doesn't share it in return. Nor should he. ever. To be clear, it is the bigger picture. I get that most of the time we just really want to know if the kid blew out his knee or not and that information isn't overly sensitive. But maintaining a high level of privacy and discretion related to health information is necessary to support when it matters, when the health information is very sensitive. The US has a dirty history of using people's health information against people. In the AIDs scare of the 80's, police and other authorities would storm county health departments and forcefully seize records to find out who in their community may have AIDs. At least once per year a police department of some kind somewhere in the state attempts to get health records from me to look for substance use discharges as a way to police parole compliance...I take deep pleasure in (politely and professionally) telling them to effe right off. Of course, in this sensitive and controversial era of Trans rights, imagine what could happen in certain places or in certain fields if somebody found out Suzy in payroll had a prostate exam last week? We aren't even getting into the use of health care records to screen job candidates for a number of reasons (health insurance costs, evidence of drug use, evidence of mental health disorders) This stuff super matters. Which is why is super matters when it doesn't matter. when we just want to know if a players twisted ankle is going to be fine, or if it is real bad. because if we are glib and open about the small things, when we suddenly shut up about a person it clearly implies there is something to know. If we openly and freely discuss and share health information that is low stakes, everybody knows when you stop sharing it is now high stakes. it now matters. It MUST be because it has to due with substance use or mental health, because quite frankly those are the only two areas with extensive federal regulations around them above and beyond HIPAA. So yeah, I take a hardline, not really because players injuries are ever that big of a deal or that sensitive, but because of the bigger picture. It is YOUR rights, your civil liberties. you should respect them more.
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Post by obf on Nov 18, 2022 9:58:04 GMT -8
All they have to say is”Musgrave is out 2-3 weeks” or “Fenwick is doubtful for ASU”. I don’t want medical records or specifics on the injury. That is HIPPAA and is fine. The fact OSU is completely moot on Lowe, etc on timeline or status for next game is what is frustrating. Mute, not moot. But at least on Lowe in particular your prayers have been answered. Not only did he play against Cal last week, but Smith said in his press conference that they would look to get him involved even more this week. Last week he was limited to catching passes, but this week he will be getting some carries as well.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 19, 2022 16:06:05 GMT -8
All they have to say is”Musgrave is out 2-3 weeks” or “Fenwick is doubtful for ASU”. I don’t want medical records or specifics on the injury. That is HIPPAA and is fine. The fact OSU is completely moot on Lowe, etc on timeline or status for next game is what is frustrating. Mute, not moot. But at least on Lowe in particular your prayers have been answered. Not only did he play against Cal last week, but Smith said in his press conference that they would look to get him involved even more this week. Last week he was limited to catching passes, but this week he will be getting some carries as well. Still no touches since Boise. I would like to see Lowe get more involved next weekend in the Great Oregon Civil War.
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