escott58
Sophomore
Posts: 1,319
Grad Year: 1983
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Post by escott58 on Oct 27, 2022 19:12:42 GMT -8
osubeavers.com/news/2022/10/27/womens-cross-country-beavers-head-to-riverside-for-pac-12-championshipsThe women have the potential to place very high in this meet; however, I'm thinking there have been some injuries holding some of them back. Mitchell and Fetherstonhaugh have been stellar this year -- even posting their best marks recently. It does take more than two really good runners for the team to win meets though. One runner has a 6K time similar to our leading runners, but she hasn't come within nearly 4 minutes of her previous best. Another hasn't come within 1 min 10 seconds of her best 6K... Another one <ditto ^ > Another didn't run this year (a very excellent 4th best Beaver time)... This indicates to me that a bunch are injured, but I really don't know. Hoping all the runners make a big statement tomorrow!
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 28, 2022 8:55:04 GMT -8
We placed 6th. Grace 9th, Kaylee 12th, Geisler 43rd, Van Valkenburg 46th, Laurent 55th. Kaylee lost five spots in the final 2K, she was leading at 2k, sounds like she went out fast.
Mik's sister placed 20th. She would have really helped us in CC, not so much in T&F.
Colorado and Utah tied, Colorado wins the tiebreaker because it's sixth runner finished ahead of Utah's.
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Post by Werebeaver on Oct 28, 2022 11:17:23 GMT -8
We placed 6th. Grace 9th, Kaylee 12th, Geisler 43rd, Van Valkenburg 46th, Laurent 55th. Kaylee lost five spots in the final 2K, she was leading at 2k, sounds like she went out fast. Mik's sister placed 20th. She would have really helped us in CC, not so much in T&F. Colorado and Utah tied, Colorado wins the tiebreaker because it's sixth runner finished ahead of Utah's. Thats a funny way to break a tie for a conference championship - who has the better 6th-best (non-scoring) runner. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 28, 2022 14:22:31 GMT -8
We placed 6th. Grace 9th, Kaylee 12th, Geisler 43rd, Van Valkenburg 46th, Laurent 55th. Kaylee lost five spots in the final 2K, she was leading at 2k, sounds like she went out fast. Mik's sister placed 20th. She would have really helped us in CC, not so much in T&F. Colorado and Utah tied, Colorado wins the tiebreaker because it's sixth runner finished ahead of Utah's. Thats a funny way to break a tie for a conference championship - who has the better 6th-best (non-scoring) runner. Not really, it's a team sport, and settling ties that way rewards quality team depth. Since a playoff is impossible, it was settled on the course, not by a coin flip. |
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escott58
Sophomore
Posts: 1,319
Grad Year: 1983
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Post by escott58 on Oct 28, 2022 15:29:23 GMT -8
The women really performed way beyond my expectations. I was really getting worried about next year's team, but there were some amazing performances by the underclassmen. As for Grace F., Kaylee M., and Christina Geisler (all Seniors and our top-3 finishers), if this is their last year, it's going to hurt. But - the next 3 finishers were Freshmen! Here are today's times listed next to their prior 6K bests (as far as I could find): | Name | Year | Today's 6K time | Prior 6K best (~) | | Grace F. | Senior | 19:38.2 | 20:10.9 | | Kaylee M. | Senior | 19:41.2 | 20:00.5 | | Christina G. | Senior | 20:21.2 | 21:12.7 | | E. van Valkenburg | Freshman | 20:26.2 | ? | | Kate Laurent | Freshman
| 20:47.2 | 21:42.7 | | Tegan Knox | Freshman
| 21:25.8 | 22:22.2 | | Emily Foote | Soph | 21:49.1 | 22:00.2 | | Zoe Simmons | Junior | 21:51.0 | 22:20.2 | | Jamie Hamlin | Freshman | 21:51.8 | 22:16.3 | | Aleen Golla | Soph | 22:09.2 | 21:29.2 |
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Post by Werebeaver on Oct 28, 2022 15:37:52 GMT -8
Thats a funny way to break a tie for a conference championship - who has the better 6th-best (non-scoring) runner. Not really, it's a team sport, and settling ties that way rewards quality team depth. Since a playoff is impossible, it was settled on the course, not by a coin flip. I would be inclined to go the other way. The purpose of any race is to win, so I would think in that spirit the best tiebreaker would be to compare both teams’ number 1 runners, with the winner being whichever finished higher. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 28, 2022 19:32:38 GMT -8
Not really, it's a team sport, and settling ties that way rewards quality team depth. Since a playoff is impossible, it was settled on the course, not by a coin flip. I would be inclined to go the other way. The purpose of any race is to win, so I would think in that spirit the best tiebreaker would be to compare both teams’ number 1 runners, with the winner being whichever finished higher. Nope, it's a team sport. Your No. 5 runner (or # 6 in this case) is as important as your # 1 runner. That has been the rules of CC for decades. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Oct 29, 2022 4:32:26 GMT -8
I would be inclined to go the other way. The purpose of any race is to win, so I would think in that spirit the best tiebreaker would be to compare both teams’ number 1 runners, with the winner being whichever finished higher. Nope, it's a team sport. Your No. 5 runner (or # 6 in this case) is as important as your # 1 runner. That has been the rules of CC for decades. It’s a team sport where the goal is to score the fewest place points from your top 5 runners. Adding the points of the 6th runner could result in completely different results for any number of teams. Conceivably, the third place team could have a better score than either of the tied teams. BTW, are you sure about that tie-breaking procedure? The meet story on Pac-12.com includes this: ”WOMEN A riveting women's race ended with…No. 11 Colorado and No. 10 Utah tied with 66 points. The Buffs won based on the NCAA tiebreaker, with four of its top five crossing ahead of Utah's comparable runners.” pac-12.com/article/2022/10/28/hicks-hertenstein-lead-stanford-colorado-pac-12-cross-country-titlesAccording to that description the team championship tie is broken by the comparative placings of both team’s five scoring runners. So for example if one team’s #1, #3 and #5 runners placed ahead of the other team’s corresponding placers, they would have 3 placing wins versus 2 and win that tiebreaker. That does seem far more logical to me. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 29, 2022 16:45:53 GMT -8
OK, I guess I was wrong. It used to be you compared the No. 6 runners. I still think it's the best way. The beauty of CC is that your fifth runner was as important as your first. Under the Pac-12's tie-breaking rules, that no longer applies.
The conference doesn't agree. No big deal.
Your point about the No. 6 runner changing the results for any number of other teams is a complete red herring. It applied only when teams tied for first place and a champion needed to be determined. It is not applied when teams tie for other places, so no other team's results would be altered.
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Post by Werebeaver on Oct 29, 2022 17:53:46 GMT -8
OK, I guess I was wrong. It used to be you compared the No. 6 runners. I still think it's the best way. The beauty of CC is that your fifth runner was as important as your first. Under the Pac-12's tie-breaking rules, that no longer applies. The conference doesn't agree. No big deal. Your point about the No. 6 runner changing the results for any number of other teams is a complete red herring. It applied only when teams tied for first place and a champion needed to be determined. It is not applied when teams tie for other places, so no other team's results would be altered. I believe NCAA Championship ties are broken the same way. So the coaches on the NCAA’s rulemaking committee must agree. Not to belabor this (OK I guess I am), but to my mind you either count teams’ 6th place runners or you don’t. Simple as that. The points are scored by the teams’ top 5 so any tiebreaking formula should only consider those top 5’s. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Oct 29, 2022 19:38:30 GMT -8
Good for them.
In high school, they use the No. 6 runner. That was the rule I was familiar with. So it's clearly not a case of "simple as that."
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