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Post by RenoBeaver on Jun 26, 2022 13:02:06 GMT -8
Any opinions on this
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jun 26, 2022 13:18:40 GMT -8
I wrote this when Ol Miss was 7 outs away from winning it all and their pitcher absolutely dealing.
Just like that...
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 26, 2022 13:22:04 GMT -8
I think the NCAA basketball tournament is tougher. You don't get a mulligan, like we had in 2006 and 2018. Gotta win six, and one loss and you're toast.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jun 26, 2022 13:32:22 GMT -8
I think the NCAA basketball tournament is tougher. You don't get a mulligan, like we had in 2006 and 2018. Gotta win six, and one loss and you're toast. Agree, you can potentially lose 4 games in the postseason and still win the title. |
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Post by irimi on Jun 26, 2022 13:42:57 GMT -8
I think the NCAA basketball tournament is tougher. You don't get a mulligan, like we had in 2006 and 2018. Gotta win six, and one loss and you're toast. But you only need to put together five guys who are good. And an excellent player or two can carry a team a long way. Baseball requires three really good pitchers and a bunch of good fielders and hitters. Just in terms of the tournament, yeah, I agree. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 26, 2022 19:19:21 GMT -8
I think the NCAA basketball tournament is tougher. You don't get a mulligan, like we had in 2006 and 2018. Gotta win six, and one loss and you're toast. But you only need to put together five guys who are good. And an excellent player or two can carry a team a long way. Baseball requires three really good pitchers and a bunch of good fielders and hitters. Just in terms of the tournament, yeah, I agree. True, a long way, but not to the title. Steph, David Robinson and Tim Duncan are just three of the greatest players of the past 30 years who couldn't get their teams past the Elite 8. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Jun 26, 2022 20:38:51 GMT -8
I think a football championship is waaay harder unless you are a blue blood....anyone can win a baseball championship now and again. In football you need the top level recruiting
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Post by beaverstever on Jun 26, 2022 21:04:33 GMT -8
I'd argue it's the hardest, simply because you can be loaded with talent, win a ton of games, and go a little cold/tight and be finished. That happens much less in football or basketball.
If you look at this year's CWS (Elite 8 equivalent), there was one 1-seed equivalent (Stanford), 1 2-seed (A&M), 1 3-seed (Texas), 1 4-seed (Auburn), and 4 teams that were sub-4 seeds.
The CWS final four had 3 sub-4 seeds and 1 2-seed. The champion was probably an 11-seed equivalent in basketball. I don't think we've every seen a final four in baseball that looked like that.
With basketball having the top talent now consistently 1-and-done, it's gotten much harder to win with the best 'talent' because it's so raw.
With football, it's very predictable who's in the running to win. For OSU to be in that running, that's obviously much harder than baseball because they don't have the money. But in terms of the hardest sport to win no matter how much money schools throw at it, I'd say baseball tops basketball, and football isn't close.
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Post by irimi on Jun 26, 2022 22:01:34 GMT -8
I'd argue it's the hardest, simply because you can be loaded with talent, win a ton of games, and go a little cold/tight and be finished. That happens much less in football or basketball. If you look at this year's CWS (Elite 8 equivalent), there was one 1-seed equivalent (Stanford), 1 2-seed (A&M), 1 3-seed (Texas), 1 4-seed (Auburn), and 4 teams that were sub-4 seeds. The CWS final four had 3 sub-4 seeds and 1 2-seed. The champion was probably an 11-seed equivalent in basketball. I don't think we've every seen a final four in baseball that looked like that. With basketball having the top talent now consistently 1-and-done, it's gotten much harder to win with the best 'talent' because it's so raw. With football, it's very predictable who's in the running to win. For OSU to be in that running, that's obviously much harder than baseball because they don't have the money. But in terms of the hardest sport to win no matter how much money schools throw at it, I'd say baseball tops basketball, and football isn't close. That’s a good point. Look at how frequently #1 ends up busted in baseball versus basketball or football. |
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Post by irimi on Jun 26, 2022 22:09:59 GMT -8
But you only need to put together five guys who are good. And an excellent player or two can carry a team a long way. Baseball requires three really good pitchers and a bunch of good fielders and hitters. Just in terms of the tournament, yeah, I agree. True, a long way, but not to the title. Steph, David Robinson and Tim Duncan are just three of the greatest players of the past 30 years who couldn't get their teams past the Elite 8. I don’t follow pros as well as I should in order to say this, but I bet you could say the same for every sport. And the reverse is also true in each sport. I know I’ve seen a lot of tOSU Buckeyes win it all, get drafted, and then not go anywhere in pros. I’m not convinced that there’s a strong relationship between college team performance and professional performance and vice-versa. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 26, 2022 23:37:04 GMT -8
I'd argue it's the hardest, simply because you can be loaded with talent, win a ton of games, and go a little cold/tight and be finished. That happens much less in football or basketball. If you look at this year's CWS (Elite 8 equivalent), there was one 1-seed equivalent (Stanford), 1 2-seed (A&M), 1 3-seed (Texas), 1 4-seed (Auburn), and 4 teams that were sub-4 seeds. The CWS final four had 3 sub-4 seeds and 1 2-seed. The champion was probably an 11-seed equivalent in basketball. I don't think we've every seen a final four in baseball that looked like that. With basketball having the top talent now consistently 1-and-done, it's gotten much harder to win with the best 'talent' because it's so raw. With football, it's very predictable who's in the running to win. For OSU to be in that running, that's obviously much harder than baseball because they don't have the money. But in terms of the hardest sport to win no matter how much money schools throw at it, I'd say baseball tops basketball, and football isn't close. Texas A&M would be a #2 in basketball. Oklahoma would be a #5, Arkansas would be a #7, and Ole Miss would be about a #10 seed. Stanford would be a #1, Texas would be a #3, Auburn would be a #4, and Notre Dame would be a #5. The mean seed is a #5. This year, the Elite Eight was: #1 Kansas, #2 Villanova, #2 Duke, #4 Arkansas, #5 Houston, #8 North Carolina, #10 Miami, and #15 Saint Peter's. The mean seed is a #6. The median is identical in baseball and basketball. The difference between baseball and basketball? Each of the higher seeds won in basketball. All four lower-seeded teams won on day one in baseball, and Arkansas eliminated Auburn. Last year's Elite Eight was: #1 Gonzaga, #1 Baylor, #1 Michigan, #2 Houston, #3 Arkansas, #6 USC, #11 UCLA, and #12 Oregon State. The mean seed is #5. The median was two spots higher in basketball than baseball, and three of the four higher-ranked teams won. As far as low-seeded Final Fours in basketball, the most low-seeded Final Four ever was 2011. The 2011 Final Four was #3 Connecticut, #4 Kentucky, #8 Butler, and #11 Virginia Commonwealth. The Elite Eight in that one had the same issue as 2022 baseball. #1 Kansas lost to #11 Virginia Commonwealth, #2 North Carolina lost to #4 Kentucky, #2 Florida lost to #8 Butler, and #5 Arizona lost to #3 Connecticut. Three of four upsets. That difference is that upsets tend to be rarer in basketball. 2021 baseball Final Four was #1 Texas, #1 Vanderbilt, #2 Mississippi State, and #5 NC State. The College World Series included #1 Tennessee, #2 Arizona, #3 Stanford, and #11 Virginia. Two favorites and two underdogs advanced. 2018 baseball Final Four was #1 Florida, #1 Oregon State, #2 Arkansas, and #7 Mississippi State. The College World Series included #2 North Carolina, #3 Texas Tech, #4 Texas, and #12 Washington. Usually, there are not so many upsets in baseball. I am not disagreeing with your global point, but I wanted to try and paint something of a more complete picture to hopefully further conversation. |
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Post by RenoBeaver on Jun 27, 2022 10:37:35 GMT -8
Good point on the mulligan thing...but that has always been a part of baseball. Not so much basketball...but also a good point one or two great players can carry a team to a championship. And for every great one that never made it to the elite 8...I can think of a few who pretty much carried their team to championships.
Baseball is such a streaky sport. An average to good team can win it all if everyone clicks at the same time. Ol Miss was a last four in team and won the whole shebang.
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