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Post by obf on Jun 9, 2022 14:33:25 GMT -8
Different subject.... Was anyone able to get any full session tickets when they went on sale at 2pm? I was late getting out of a meeting and by 2:15 they were all gone, and a half hour on hold with the ticket office later I just hung up in resignation...
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Post by Judge Smails on Jun 9, 2022 14:33:50 GMT -8
I'm misunderstanding or you are?? "Rushing back"? Cooper basically pitched his BP session or less (in some cases they will work extra on getting "feel" for a certain pitch) during a game Sunday. He's actually getting an extra day pitching Saturday night vs Friday. That's all fair. Luke Heimlich threw on Saturday and then Friday and then gave up 6 in 2.1 at Omaha, 3 in 2.2 in game 3 and 4 in 4.1 in game 6. Hjerpe can come back and pitch on Saturday. That can absolutely be done. Whether it should is my question. Unless we plan to trot Hjerpe back out for an inning on Monday, if necessary, I say start him once on Sunday and then prep him to start the following Saturday against the Ole Miss-Southern Miss winner. Or hell, save him to pitch Monday against Arkansas-Connecticut-North Carolina-Stanford. Coop and Luke are two different pitchers. That comparison is irrelevant. You do not save pitchers in a Super Regional. If Coop is ready, he will go. |
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Post by rgeorge on Jun 9, 2022 14:38:15 GMT -8
I'm misunderstanding or you are?? "Rushing back"? Cooper basically pitched his BP session or less (in some cases they will work extra on getting "feel" for a certain pitch) during a game Sunday. He's actually getting an extra day pitching Saturday night vs Friday. That's all fair. Luke Heimlich threw on Saturday and then Friday and then gave up 6 in 2.1 at Omaha, 3 in 2.2 in game 3 and 4 in 4.1 in game 6. Hjerpe can come back and pitch on Saturday. That can absolutely be done. Whether it should is my question. Unless we plan to trot Hjerpe back out for an inning on Monday, if necessary, I say start him once on Sunday and then prep him to start the following Saturday against the Ole Miss-Southern Miss winner. Or hell, save him to pitch Monday against Arkansas-Connecticut-North Carolina-Stanford. I get folks trying to make "connections", but two different guys, and really situations. Cooper is a must for game 1. And, a game 1 "W" is a must. There has been mention about "Do we only have one good pitcher?". We have several that have been good... at times. Only one that everyone here and in that dugout knows is the "man". I'm not going to use the word, "trust", but I mentioned early on that Cooper would pitch Monday. It was a no brainer if OSU was ahead late. Because? Because he's the MAN of this staff. That game was the season and Cooper is as automatic as the Beavers have. You can't risk losing game 1 Saturday then having Cooper even it up Sunday and be unavailable Monday. Anyway, it's my take if was my staff. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 9, 2022 14:43:40 GMT -8
That's all fair. Luke Heimlich threw on Saturday and then Friday and then gave up 6 in 2.1 at Omaha, 3 in 2.2 in game 3 and 4 in 4.1 in game 6. Hjerpe can come back and pitch on Saturday. That can absolutely be done. Whether it should is my question. Unless we plan to trot Hjerpe back out for an inning on Monday, if necessary, I say start him once on Sunday and then prep him to start the following Saturday against the Ole Miss-Southern Miss winner. Or hell, save him to pitch Monday against Arkansas-Connecticut-North Carolina-Stanford. Coop and Luke are two different pitchers. That comparison is irrelevant. You do not save pitchers in a Super Regional. If Coop is ready, he will go. Except that Pat Casey himself saved Mike Stutes to Monday of the 2007 Corvallis Super Regional after Stutes pitched on Tuesday in the Charlottesville Regional Championship Game. Stutes could have absolutely thrown on Sunday, but Casey held him out and let Reyes throw instead. Oregon State has only played on a Monday in a Regional once in the past 20 years and survived and that was 15 years ago (2007). So, I get that this is almost undiscovered country here. But you have to be smart with your pitchers. Luke Heimlich thought that he could go on short rest in 2018 and could. But Heimlich was ruined thereafter. Just because something can be done does not necessarily mean that it should be done. I will defer to everyone else, though. I am just pointing out two situations that seemed to have wildly different outcomes, because of good use of pitchers in the 2007 Corvallis Super Regional and outright terrible use of Luke Heimlich in the 2018 Corvallis Super Regional. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jun 9, 2022 14:58:32 GMT -8
Coop and Luke are two different pitchers. That comparison is irrelevant. You do not save pitchers in a Super Regional. If Coop is ready, he will go. Except that Pat Casey himself saved Mike Stutes to Monday of the 2007 Corvallis Super Regional after Stutes pitched on Tuesday in the Charlottesville Regional Championship Game. Stutes could have absolutely thrown on Sunday, but Casey held him out and let Reyes throw instead. Oregon State has only played on a Monday in a Regional once in the past 20 years and survived and that was 15 years ago (2007). So, I get that this is almost undiscovered country here. But you have to be smart with your pitchers. Luke Heimlich thought that he could go on short rest in 2018 and could. But Heimlich was ruined thereafter. Just because something can be done does not necessarily mean that it should be done. I will defer to everyone else, though. I am just pointing out two situations that seemed to have wildly different outcomes, because of good use of pitchers in the 2007 Corvallis Super Regional and outright terrible use of Luke Heimlich in the 2018 Corvallis Super Regional. I just have a feeling that the pressure from the off the field stuff that Luke was facing in Omaha had more to do with his performance there than any rest issues. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jun 9, 2022 15:23:58 GMT -8
Oregon State has only played on a Monday in a Regional once in the past 20 years and survived and that was 15 years ago (2007).
We defeated USC on a Monday to win the 2005 Super.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 9, 2022 15:45:21 GMT -8
Oregon State has only played on a Monday in a Regional once in the past 20 years and survived and that was 15 years ago (2007).
We defeated USC on a Monday to win the 2005 Super. Oregon State won Friday, Saturday and Sunday at the 2005 Corvallis Regional. That is identical to the 2006, 2011, 2013, 2017 and 2018 Corvallis Regionals. Oregon State won on Friday, lost on Saturday in 13 innings, had Sunday rained out by Tropical Storm Barry, won two on Monday and won one on Tuesday in the 2007 Charlottesville Regional. The Beavers started their #3 starter Jorge Reyes at the Corvallis Super Regional on Sunday and pitched their ace Mike Stutes on Monday. You approach a Super Regional differently after a sweep rather than after playing games on Monday and Tuesday. Oregon State played on Monday in the Corvallis Super Regional in 2005, 2007 and 2013. You bring up the 2005 Corvallis Super Regional, which is interesting. Dallas Buck was called out on one day's rest to pitch 1.1 perfect innings to pick up the save in the Corvallis Super Regional Championship Game. Pat Casey held Buck out of the first game at Omaha the following Saturday, starting Jonah Nickerson instead. Buck threw on Monday, only giving up one earned run. Unfortunately, Gunderson gave up the game-winner in the 10th after throwing 4.1 innings. In 2007, Casey switched Reyes and Stutes in the Corvallis Super Regional, because Reyes was on one more day's rest, and never looked back. In 2013, casey threw Matt Boyd on one day's rest in the Corvallis Super Regional for a save. Casey then moved Moore to start the first game at Omaha and Wetzler second. Casey saved Boyd for game three, a 1-0 shutout win. Unfortunately, the run ended the next game. Oregon State has always changed the rotation after throwing on a Monday in a Regional or a Super Regional. |
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Post by beaverstever on Jun 9, 2022 16:05:57 GMT -8
Except that Pat Casey himself saved Mike Stutes to Monday of the 2007 Corvallis Super Regional after Stutes pitched on Tuesday in the Charlottesville Regional Championship Game. Stutes could have absolutely thrown on Sunday, but Casey held him out and let Reyes throw instead. Oregon State has only played on a Monday in a Regional once in the past 20 years and survived and that was 15 years ago (2007). So, I get that this is almost undiscovered country here. But you have to be smart with your pitchers. Luke Heimlich thought that he could go on short rest in 2018 and could. But Heimlich was ruined thereafter. Just because something can be done does not necessarily mean that it should be done. I will defer to everyone else, though. I am just pointing out two situations that seemed to have wildly different outcomes, because of good use of pitchers in the 2007 Corvallis Super Regional and outright terrible use of Luke Heimlich in the 2018 Corvallis Super Regional. I just have a feeling that the pressure from the off the field stuff that Luke was facing in Omaha had more to do with his performance there than any rest issues. I concur - Luke had a lot more going on than short rest to deal with in Omaha. |
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Post by beaver1989 on Jun 9, 2022 17:03:30 GMT -8
That's all fair. Luke Heimlich threw on Saturday and then Friday and then gave up 6 in 2.1 at Omaha, 3 in 2.2 in game 3 and 4 in 4.1 in game 6. Hjerpe can come back and pitch on Saturday. That can absolutely be done. Whether it should is my question. Unless we plan to trot Hjerpe back out for an inning on Monday, if necessary, I say start him once on Sunday and then prep him to start the following Saturday against the Ole Miss-Southern Miss winner. Or hell, save him to pitch Monday against Arkansas-Connecticut-North Carolina-Stanford. I get folks trying to make "connections", but two different guys, and really situations. Cooper is a must for game 1. And, a game 1 "W" is a must. There has been mention about "Do we only have one good pitcher?". We have several that have been good... at times. Only one that everyone here and in that dugout knows is the "man". I'm not going to use the word, "trust", but I mentioned early on that Cooper would pitch Monday. It was a no brainer if OSU was ahead late. Because? Because he's the MAN of this staff. That game was the season and Cooper is as automatic as the Beavers have. You can't risk losing game 1 Saturday then having Cooper even it up Sunday and be unavailable Monday. Anyway, it's my take if was my staff. rgeorge, You called Coop "in relief" before the game even started. His 2 innings were beautiful..... filling up the zone & weak swings everywhere. "I'm throwing Coop Game 1 if I'm the coach." |
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Post by jimbeav on Jun 10, 2022 6:38:51 GMT -8
I have been all-in on the "throw Coop in game 1" camp this week, however as I think about it more, now I'm not so sure.
First of all, I'll challenge the notion that it's absolutely critical to win game 1 of the SR. While this is nice, it's not nearly as critical as winning game 1 of a 4-team double-elimination format. Losing game 1 of a SR means playing max 3 games instead of 2, which is no big deal in terms of arm availability. But losing game 1 of a double-elimination means playing max 5 instead of 3, and is usually the kiss of death. If we make it to Omaha, Cooper MUST pitch in game 1, no exceptions. That is far, FAR more important than pitching game 1 of the SR.
Also of extreme importance is that whatever games Coop pitches in, we win. If we hang an 'L' on Coop at any time, we're likely toast for the post-season. We do _not_ have the caliber of staff to overcome a fading ace like we experienced in 2018 and 2006. So we really need him to be at his best whenever he takes the mound.
So while the rotation going in to Omaha looms large as to what you do with Cooper this weekend, we obviously have to win 2 games to get there, and it is critical that we win whatever game Coop pitches in.
Looking at the two options:
Option 1: Throw Coop Saturday. This gives 4 days of rest this week, and 6 days of rest next week.
Option 2: Throw Coop Sunday. This gives 5 days rest this week, and 5 next week.
So which gives us the best chance of winning both of these games that Coop pitches in?
Throwing on Saturday sets us up perfectly for Omaha, but is a little concerning for the SR. Yes, I know last Monday would have been a bullpen session anyway, but including warmups, that was probably about 2x-3x as many throws as he would have done in a normal BP session. And I do worry about whether he'll be as effective if he pitches Saturday.
Coop pitching Sunday maximizes his potential effectivemess for the SR, and it doesn't change the fact that we will still need to win 1 out of the other 2 games with the rest of our staff. It does shorten his usual rest by one day for Omaha, but we have to get there first. And I think by maximizing the odds of posting a 'W' on Coop, we are maximizing our odds of winning the SR. Whether that win happens in game 1 or game 2 doesn't really matter.
Bolstering this argument is the notion that Auburn doesn't seem to have a big dominant Friday night ace, at least on paper and based on W/L records. There are some teams I'd say that it's important to put our best guy against in game 1, but Auburn doesn't appear to be such a team.
The only real argument I see for throwing Cooper Saturday is setting him up well for Omaha. And I can buy that reasoning. If all parties involved think that he is situation normal for Saturday, go ahead and roll him out there in game 1. But I think the maximum odds of winning this SR are attained if you throw him Sunday. It also likely increases the odds of playing a game 3, but I like our chances of winning a game 3 with our staff versus their staff.
Either way, in Mitch I trust. Can't wait to watch the game tomorrow...
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Post by beaver55to7 on Jun 10, 2022 8:56:30 GMT -8
I have been all-in on the "throw Coop in game 1" camp this week, however as I think about it more, now I'm not so sure. First of all, I'll challenge the notion that it's absolutely critical to win game 1 of the SR. While this is nice, it's not nearly as critical as winning game 1 of a 4-team double-elimination format. Losing game 1 of a SR means playing max 3 games instead of 2, which is no big deal in terms of arm availability. But losing game 1 of a double-elimination means playing max 5 instead of 3, and is usually the kiss of death. If we make it to Omaha, Cooper MUST pitch in game 1, no exceptions. That is far, FAR more important than pitching game 1 of the SR. Also of extreme importance is that whatever games Coop pitches in, we win. If we hang an 'L' on Coop at any time, we're likely toast for the post-season. We do _not_ have the caliber of staff to overcome a fading ace like we experienced in 2018 and 2006. So we really need him to be at his best whenever he takes the mound. So while the rotation going in to Omaha looms large as to what you do with Cooper this weekend, we obviously have to win 2 games to get there, and it is critical that we win whatever game Coop pitches in. Looking at the two options: Option 1: Throw Coop Saturday. This gives 4 days of rest this week, and 6 days of rest next week. Option 2: Throw Coop Sunday. This gives 5 days rest this week, and 5 next week. So which gives us the best chance of winning both of these games that Coop pitches in? Throwing on Saturday sets us up perfectly for Omaha, but is a little concerning for the SR. Yes, I know last Monday would have been a bullpen session anyway, but including warmups, that was probably about 2x-3x as many throws as he would have done in a normal BP session. And I do worry about whether he'll be as effective if he pitches Saturday. Coop pitching Sunday maximizes his potential effectivemess for the SR, and it doesn't change the fact that we will still need to win 1 out of the other 2 games with the rest of our staff. It does shorten his usual rest by one day for Omaha, but we have to get there first. And I think by maximizing the odds of posting a 'W' on Coop, we are maximizing our odds of winning the SR. Whether that win happens in game 1 or game 2 doesn't really matter. Bolstering this argument is the notion that Auburn doesn't seem to have a big dominant Friday night ace, at least on paper and based on W/L records. There are some teams I'd say that it's important to put our best guy against in game 1, but Auburn doesn't appear to be such a team. The only real argument I see for throwing Cooper Saturday is setting him up well for Omaha. And I can buy that reasoning. If all parties involved think that he is situation normal for Saturday, go ahead and roll him out there in game 1. But I think the maximum odds of winning this SR are attained if you throw him Sunday. It also likely increases the odds of playing a game 3, but I like our chances of winning a game 3 with our staff versus their staff. Either way, in Mitch I trust. Can't wait to watch the game tomorrow... The first hole in your logic I see is that you have to win the first game in the regional format or you play 5 games. Actually you have to win the first 2 games or you play 5 games, and winning game 2 is probably more important than game 1, at least the numbers show it as more likely to recover from a game 1 loss and win the regional then a game 2 loss to win the regional. I also think since the SR is a non-travel week and the game is a LATE start on Saturday, that it is closer to 5 days rest to a Saturday start in SR and then a travel week. Would rather have Coop pitch on Saturday with no travel, and have the extra day of rest for CWS with travel. Honestly, pitchers that have aspirations to the next level really need to be able to be 100% on 4 days rest. |
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Post by rgeorge on Jun 10, 2022 9:09:35 GMT -8
I'll bet there is not even a discussion about who starts game 1 on the coaching staff!
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elwood
Freshman
Posts: 212
Grad Year: 1994
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Post by elwood on Jun 10, 2022 13:15:54 GMT -8
Oh, thank God. The announcer that was calling the Corvallis Regional that yells ‘AAAADIIIIIIIIOSSSS!” is calling the Virginia Tech Super Regional.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jun 10, 2022 13:28:37 GMT -8
I'll bet there is not even a discussion about who starts game 1 on the coaching staff! I'll bet that they're talking to Hjerpe about it..........a lot. And watching him like a hawk. We'll see, I suppose. |
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Post by jimbeav on Jun 10, 2022 14:08:04 GMT -8
I have been all-in on the "throw Coop in game 1" camp this week, however as I think about it more, now I'm not so sure. First of all, I'll challenge the notion that it's absolutely critical to win game 1 of the SR. While this is nice, it's not nearly as critical as winning game 1 of a 4-team double-elimination format. Losing game 1 of a SR means playing max 3 games instead of 2, which is no big deal in terms of arm availability. But losing game 1 of a double-elimination means playing max 5 instead of 3, and is usually the kiss of death. If we make it to Omaha, Cooper MUST pitch in game 1, no exceptions. That is far, FAR more important than pitching game 1 of the SR. Also of extreme importance is that whatever games Coop pitches in, we win. If we hang an 'L' on Coop at any time, we're likely toast for the post-season. We do _not_ have the caliber of staff to overcome a fading ace like we experienced in 2018 and 2006. So we really need him to be at his best whenever he takes the mound. So while the rotation going in to Omaha looms large as to what you do with Cooper this weekend, we obviously have to win 2 games to get there, and it is critical that we win whatever game Coop pitches in. Looking at the two options: Option 1: Throw Coop Saturday. This gives 4 days of rest this week, and 6 days of rest next week. Option 2: Throw Coop Sunday. This gives 5 days rest this week, and 5 next week. So which gives us the best chance of winning both of these games that Coop pitches in? Throwing on Saturday sets us up perfectly for Omaha, but is a little concerning for the SR. Yes, I know last Monday would have been a bullpen session anyway, but including warmups, that was probably about 2x-3x as many throws as he would have done in a normal BP session. And I do worry about whether he'll be as effective if he pitches Saturday. Coop pitching Sunday maximizes his potential effectivemess for the SR, and it doesn't change the fact that we will still need to win 1 out of the other 2 games with the rest of our staff. It does shorten his usual rest by one day for Omaha, but we have to get there first. And I think by maximizing the odds of posting a 'W' on Coop, we are maximizing our odds of winning the SR. Whether that win happens in game 1 or game 2 doesn't really matter. Bolstering this argument is the notion that Auburn doesn't seem to have a big dominant Friday night ace, at least on paper and based on W/L records. There are some teams I'd say that it's important to put our best guy against in game 1, but Auburn doesn't appear to be such a team. The only real argument I see for throwing Cooper Saturday is setting him up well for Omaha. And I can buy that reasoning. If all parties involved think that he is situation normal for Saturday, go ahead and roll him out there in game 1. But I think the maximum odds of winning this SR are attained if you throw him Sunday. It also likely increases the odds of playing a game 3, but I like our chances of winning a game 3 with our staff versus their staff. Either way, in Mitch I trust. Can't wait to watch the game tomorrow... The first hole in your logic I see is that you have to win the first game in the regional format or you play 5 games. Actually you have to win the first 2 games or you play 5 games, and winning game 2 is probably more important than game 1, at least the numbers show it as more likely to recover from a game 1 loss and win the regional then a game 2 loss to win the regional. I also think since the SR is a non-travel week and the game is a LATE start on Saturday, that it is closer to 5 days rest to a Saturday start in SR and then a travel week. Would rather have Coop pitch on Saturday with no travel, and have the extra day of rest for CWS with travel. Honestly, pitchers that have aspirations to the next level really need to be able to be 100% on 4 days rest. Here's the only comparison that matters in a double-elimination format: 1) The odds of winning when you win game 1. 2) The odds of winning when you lose game 1. You get two chances to stay in the winners bracket, and you can't use your second chance if you don't take advantage of your first and win on day 1. I stand by the assertion that winning on day 1 is critical for maximizing your chances of success in a double-elimination format. |
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