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Post by orangethunder on Apr 26, 2022 5:02:17 GMT -8
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Apr 26, 2022 6:33:27 GMT -8
Yes, I distinctly remember FDU's conference tournament championship and NCAA Elite 8 run in 2021. It was memorable. His record may be "close." His accomplishments aren't.
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Post by nabeav on Apr 26, 2022 7:59:32 GMT -8
Again...context. He went 4-22 last year, but was 9-15 and 11-19 the two years before that. That's three straight years of declining returns. A 24-56 record over three years. Tinkle's three year record is 41-54.....17 more wins and two fewer losses. If Tinkle follows up this season with a 9-20 record, he'll almost assuredly be relieved of his duties too.
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Post by beaverbeliever71 on Apr 26, 2022 8:14:41 GMT -8
He had 3 straight losing seasons after NCAA Tournament season. Tinkle has had 2 losing seasons TOTAL in his 8 seasons as coach for OSU. Little different scenario.
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Post by spudbeaver on Apr 26, 2022 8:26:56 GMT -8
That seems like a Fairleigh logical move.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Apr 26, 2022 9:08:51 GMT -8
That seems like a Fairleigh logical move. And it's Fairleigh ridiculous to compare him to Tinkle.
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Post by seastape on Apr 26, 2022 10:56:13 GMT -8
What was worse? FDU 's basketball team last year or the writing in the article?
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Post by rgeorge on Apr 26, 2022 11:06:23 GMT -8
He had 3 straight losing seasons after NCAA Tournament season. Tinkle has had 2 losing seasons TOTAL in his 8 seasons as coach for OSU. Little different scenario. Look... this guy has zero to do with WT and his performance. But, let's be real about these so called winning seasons. WT is 116-137 overall... only because he is 63-42 versus NC opponents (53-95 where it counts in Pac12 play... not counting Pac12 tourney results). HOWEVER... stating he has (5) "winning" seasons is true with regard to the record, but it's totally misleading when you look at the NC schedules and NC SOS. Kenpom is one of many sites you can use and all may have differing results, but not by a lot. Kenpom is just quick and easy to sort and one of the few that actually show NC SOS. WT is 63-42 versus a NC SOS that has a median of 301, mean of 264.9. He's had a NC schedule with a SOS under 200 twice (112 in '21, 155 in '16) both seasons a disaster with a NC record of 2-9, 4-10. His ONLY winning NC seasons have come with NC SOS of 260 (high of 336 in '18). Again SOS is one of many stats that lend themselves to a wide interpretation. But as you scroll thru Kenpom to find OSU's NC SOS rank you'll pass by almost every Pac12 team each year. I do not have a subscription to ranking by conference (nor want to spend the time to find each team), but OSU consistently ranks at or near the bottom of the Pac12 in NC SOS. Bottom line... WT is the coach (and will be at least two more seasons)*, but quite trying to sell "winning records". He's 21 games under .500 overall and only because of the weak NC schedules. Sell the (2) NCAA tourneys, the Pac12 tourney title. The rest is really nonsense to anyone who truly pays attention to college hoops. *Unfortunately I think WT can again under perform in '22-23 and keep his job. Unless there is a under 10 wins I'm seeing him retained. The new "excuse" will be we're so young (even though it's at his own hand) and will tie in to a AD budget that can not afford to pay him off and hire a decent priced/experienced replacement.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Apr 26, 2022 12:17:47 GMT -8
Sagarin, which takes SOS into account had OSU ranked at 175th in the country, not good, but a far cry better than Farleigh Dickinson’s 349th out of 358 schools. It’s kind of a waste of time comparing the two school’s season records.
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Post by nabeav on Apr 26, 2022 12:41:31 GMT -8
rgeorge - I get what you're saying. He's been fairly brutal in conference, but seasons of 1-17, 1-19 will do that to you. The other six seasons he's 51-59, which also isn't spectacular, but to me it says we're competitive against our peers in most seasons. I get that being able to win half your games isn't the goal and isn't worthy of praise, either. But like you said, what he has "sell" is that he's done what he was hired to do: get us to the NCAAs and win a Pac-12 tourney. My default (in all cases except Gary Andersen) is to keep the coach we have until it no longer makes sense (financially or performance wise) to do so. Tinkle's successes here have made it a higher bar to clear in my opinion. I sincerely hope he turns it around, but I think he has two years at most to get us back into the postseason (NIT or better). If not, rolling the dice on a new coach that may or may not work out becomes a better scenario in my opinion.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Apr 26, 2022 13:46:15 GMT -8
He had 3 straight losing seasons after NCAA Tournament season. Tinkle has had 2 losing seasons TOTAL in his 8 seasons as coach for OSU. Little different scenario. Look... this guy has zero to do with WT and his performance. But, let's be real about these so called winning seasons. WT is 116-137 overall... only because he is 63-42 versus NC opponents (53-95 where it counts in Pac12 play... not counting Pac12 tourney results). HOWEVER... stating he has (5) "winning" seasons is true with regard to the record, but it's totally misleading when you look at the NC schedules and NC SOS. Kenpom is one of many sites you can use and all may have differing results, but not by a lot. Kenpom is just quick and easy to sort and one of the few that actually show NC SOS. WT is 63-42 versus a NC SOS that has a median of 301, mean of 264.9. He's had a NC schedule with a SOS under 200 twice (112 in '21, 155 in '16) both seasons a disaster with a NC record of 2-9, 4-10. His ONLY winning NC seasons have come with NC SOS of 260 (high of 336 in '18). Again SOS is one of many stats that lend themselves to a wide interpretation. But as you scroll thru Kenpom to find OSU's NC SOS rank you'll pass by almost every Pac12 team each year. I do not have a subscription to ranking by conference (nor want to spend the time to find each team), but OSU consistently ranks at or near the bottom of the Pac12 in NC SOS. Bottom line... WT is the coach (and will be at least two more seasons)*, but quite trying to sell "winning records". He's 21 games under .500 overall and only because of the weak NC schedules. Sell the (2) NCAA tourneys, the Pac12 tourney title. The rest is really nonsense to anyone who truly pays attention to college hoops. *Unfortunately I think WT can again under perform in '22-23 and keep his job. Unless there is a under 10 wins I'm seeing him retained. The new "excuse" will be we're so young (even though it's at his own hand) and will tie in to a AD budget that can not afford to pay him off and hire a decent priced/experienced replacement. How are you calculating mean or median? Median should be 289. Your mean calculation should be 261.9, not 264.9. You also confuse the 2015-16 and 2016-17 seasons. The 155 SOS was in 2016, when Oregon State went to the NCAA Tournament. The Beavers went 10-4 nonconference that year, losses to Valpo (lost the NIT Championship Game), Kansas (lost to National Champion Villanova by five in Elite Eight in Louisville), Cal (NCAA Tournament First Round) and Virginia Commonwealth (lost to Final Four Oklahoma in Round of 32). Respectfully, I judge a coach by how many seasons he has overachieved. He has a phenomenal season, a great season, three good seasons, a meh season and two bad. We are two years removed from an Elite Eight appearance. I am going to give the guy a mulligan and look forward to better days ahead.
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Post by beaverbeliever71 on Apr 26, 2022 19:30:14 GMT -8
He had 3 straight losing seasons after NCAA Tournament season. Tinkle has had 2 losing seasons TOTAL in his 8 seasons as coach for OSU. Little different scenario. Bottom line... WT is the coach (and will be at least two more seasons)*, but quite trying to sell "winning records". He's 21 games under .500 overall and only because of the weak NC schedules. Sell the (2) NCAA tourneys, the Pac12 tourney title. The rest is really nonsense to anyone who truly pays attention to college hoops. replacement. I wasn't trying to sell anything but thanks for going on a whole rant I about it lol. I was merely stating that the coach who got fired had posted 3 straight losing seasons in a row before he got fired. Whereas WT's only had 2 losing seasons in his 8 season tenure so far. The OP who started this thread was the one who said he had similar record to WT. I assume he was trying to imply that WT should be fired?
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Post by fridaynightlights on Apr 26, 2022 19:34:24 GMT -8
Imo it is time to put to bed the "should WT be fired or not" discussion. The arguments have been made ad nauseum and we know where everyone stands on the issue. I think we can all agree on one thing, he will be the coach next season and the team will need to show significant improvement for him to keep his job. How much improvement they will need to show is open to debate.
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Post by OSUprof on Apr 26, 2022 19:50:17 GMT -8
Sagarin, which takes SOS into account had OSU ranked at 175th in the country, not good, but a far cry better than Farleigh Dickinson’s 349th out of 358 schools. It’s kind of a waste of time comparing the two school’s season records. Get Scott Barnes on the line. Beavs need to get these guys on our schedule next year.
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Post by beaverbeliever71 on Apr 26, 2022 19:53:34 GMT -8
He had 3 straight losing seasons after NCAA Tournament season. Tinkle has had 2 losing seasons TOTAL in his 8 seasons as coach for OSU. Little different scenario. The rest is really nonsense to anyone who truly pays attention to college hoops. Sorry I don't follow college basketball as closely as you. Obviously I'm not paying attention. Thanks for pointing it out lol
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