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Post by jdogge on Mar 12, 2022 22:55:27 GMT -8
Apples and oranges [no pun intended]. You're equating my hiring a contractor with criticizing a coach of a college sports team. With respect to the contractor, I hired them and have a right to expect a certain quality be realized. But, you don't hire the coach. No, don't ramble on about how the minimal sum you pay to attend games is in any way, shape, or form, is hiring the coach. You don't recruit, interview, hire, or pay the coach. Try again, armchair fat a$$. Obviously when you lose arguments you throw out insults. Classy. I'm surprised that, with that level of reading comprehension, you managed to graduate from OSU. Read it again. I didn't lose the argument. Your attempt to deflect and gaslight gets a "C." Good enough for a UO grad.
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zzufrevaeb
Sophomore
Not beaverfuzz
hi
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Mar 16, 2022 14:39:00 GMT -8
My buddy? Think you may have responded to the wrong poster. What is your buddy Wayne's record at Oregon State compared to Craig? Craig took a lot of heat from fans for having a record here that has now been matched by Wayne. The NCAA appearance argument I get, but here is something I've thought about. Robinson had GP2 committed before he was fired, so lets say he was given another year or two. With GP2 on the roster, what are the odds Robinson would have had more success and made it to the NCAA tournament? Another thing, if Robinson is not fired, Hallice Cooke most likely does not transfer. Both coaches are not the answer, but it's strange how they have the same record here and are viewed so differently. It's hilarious...and yet not surprising since it's Oregon State. GP II basically led the Beavs and Wayne to the NCAA's. Just a funny narrative that Beaver fans have with older white coaches for some odd reason.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 16, 2022 21:49:08 GMT -8
Craig took a lot of heat from fans for having a record here that has now been matched by Wayne. The NCAA appearance argument I get, but here is something I've thought about. Robinson had GP2 committed before he was fired, so lets say he was given another year or two. With GP2 on the roster, what are the odds Robinson would have had more success and made it to the NCAA tournament? Another thing, if Robinson is not fired, Hallice Cooke most likely does not transfer. Both coaches are not the answer, but it's strange how they have the same record here and are viewed so differently. It's hilarious...and yet not surprising since it's Oregon State. GP II basically led the Beavs and Wayne to the NCAA's. Just a funny narrative that Beaver fans have with older white coaches for some odd reason. osufan2kHallice Cooke announced his intent to transfer, while Robinson was still head coach. Julian Powers quit the team. Challe Barton left the team to play overseas. Eric Moreland declared early for the NBA draft, when he had no chance of being drafted. Roberto Nelson, Devon Collier and Angus Brandt each gradated. When Hallice Cooke announced his intent to transfer, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Cooke's announcement showed quite clearly that Robinson had lost the team and the team would be in complete tear down to studs and rebuild mode. And Tinkle came in and put together a better team the following year with GPII and a bunch of walk-ons. Robinson was a terrible X and O coach. He was supposed to be a great recruiter, but I never really saw it. His time was done. It was obvious. Robinson v. Tinkle is like a Mike Price v. Mike Riley argument. Would you rather have someone who is consistently middle of the road or someone who has great seasons mixed in with terrible seasons? Tinkle 1 Elite 8 2 NCAA Tournament Appearances 5 winning seasons Robinson 0 Elite 8's 0 NCAA Tournament Appearances 1 winning season You can spin that and make it comparable. But they are really not. Additionally, Oregon State went 3-28 this year against the 37th hardest schedule. Only one player played the each game this season: Jarod Lucas. Everyone else missed time for a myriad of reasons. 2021-22 was a snakebit season from beginning to end. We're moving on with Tinkle. It could be better. It could be worse.
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Post by TheGlove on Mar 16, 2022 21:52:27 GMT -8
It's hilarious...and yet not surprising since it's Oregon State. GP II basically led the Beavs and Wayne to the NCAA's. Just a funny narrative that Beaver fans have with older white coaches for some odd reason. osufan2kHallice Cooke announced his intent to transfer, while Robinson was still head coach. Julian Powers quit the team. Challe Barton left the team to play overseas. Eric Moreland declared early for the NBA draft, when he had no chance of being drafted. Roberto Nelson, Devon Collier and Angus Brandt each gradated. When Hallice Cooke announced his intent to transfer, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Cooke's announcement showed quite clearly that Robinson had lost the team and the team would be in complete tear down to studs and rebuild mode. And Tinkle came in and put together a better team the following year with GPII and a bunch of walk-ons. Robinson was a terrible X and O coach. He was supposed to be a great recruiter, but I never really saw it. His time was done. It was obvious. Robinson v. Tinkle is like a Mike Price v. Mike Riley argument. Would you rather have someone who is consistently middle of the road or someone who has great seasons mixed in with terrible seasons? Tinkle 1 Elite 8 2 NCAA Tournament Appearances 5 winning seasons Robinson 0 Elite 8's 0 NCAA Tournament Appearances 1 winning season You can spin that and make it comparable. But they are really not. Additionally, Oregon State went 3-28 this year against the 37th hardest schedule. Only one player played the each game this season: Jarod Lucas. Everyone else missed time for a myriad of reasons. 2021-22 was a snakebit season from beginning to end. We're moving on with Tinkle. It could be better. It could be worse. which one is price? And which one is riley?
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 16, 2022 22:32:59 GMT -8
osufan2k Hallice Cooke announced his intent to transfer, while Robinson was still head coach. Julian Powers quit the team. Challe Barton left the team to play overseas. Eric Moreland declared early for the NBA draft, when he had no chance of being drafted. Roberto Nelson, Devon Collier and Angus Brandt each gradated. When Hallice Cooke announced his intent to transfer, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Cooke's announcement showed quite clearly that Robinson had lost the team and the team would be in complete tear down to studs and rebuild mode. And Tinkle came in and put together a better team the following year with GPII and a bunch of walk-ons. Robinson was a terrible X and O coach. He was supposed to be a great recruiter, but I never really saw it. His time was done. It was obvious. Robinson v. Tinkle is like a Mike Price v. Mike Riley argument. Would you rather have someone who is consistently middle of the road or someone who has great seasons mixed in with terrible seasons? Tinkle 1 Elite 8 2 NCAA Tournament Appearances 5 winning seasons Robinson 0 Elite 8's 0 NCAA Tournament Appearances 1 winning season You can spin that and make it comparable. But they are really not. Additionally, Oregon State went 3-28 this year against the 37th hardest schedule. Only one player played the each game this season: Jarod Lucas. Everyone else missed time for a myriad of reasons. 2021-22 was a snakebit season from beginning to end. We're moving on with Tinkle. It could be better. It could be worse. which one is price? And which one is riley? In my hackneyed analogy, Tinkle is Price, and Robinson is Riley.
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 16, 2022 23:08:58 GMT -8
I've seen OSU's SOS at 51, 74, 64, 91. So?
Many teams, no ALL teams, with a stronger SOS didn't finish 3-28!
Example... ASU SOS 22, considered a far tougher schedule on that site went 14-17 with major contributors missing.
Furd @ 31 won 16 games... it goes on and on.
Stop with the WT excuses. I earlier showed a list that CR was the superior recruiter. But, again who cares?
People keep comparing WT to CR like it makes WT a good coach. Myself and others bring up CR facts not to say he should have stayed. But, to show WT hasn't been the improvement needed, wanted, nor argued on this board. And, the constant excuses (can't wait to hear what year 9 brings. Maybe it's a rebuild job, of his own creation?!) and comparison to the low bar crowd of former coaches only proves how bad he is.
Gawd... he has the TWO WORST SEASONAL RECORDS IN OSU HISTORY! This year was even worse, CONFERENCE HISTORY!
Yeah, he's in the record book! One I'm betting will not be broken.
Plus there were 3 teams with a lower winning % than OSU's 9.7%. So we were #347 (out of 350) There's a couple positives.
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Post by william44 on Mar 17, 2022 4:19:39 GMT -8
Funny people arguing over coaches who both have lost their Teams. I never was a fan of Robinson and Tinkle lost me this Year. Seems we are not really serious and unlikely a big sonar rescues us. U of o got lucky with Altman. Our luck ran out a year ago. Many will move on. Guess we should as well.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 17, 2022 8:24:57 GMT -8
Until OSU identifies a coach with an Altman type resume (taking a previously bad team to 11 straight 20+ win seasons and 11 consecutive major tournaments)and says we'll make you one of the top 20-25 paid coaches in the country day one like uo did with Altman back in 2010, I don't see much hope for a new coaching hire curing OSU's long term issues. oregon didn't get lucky with Altman, they got smart... although the willingness to play loose with the NCAA recruiting rules probably helped them as well.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 17, 2022 8:29:29 GMT -8
Until OSU identifies a coach with an Altman type resume (taking a previously bad team to 11 straight 20+ win seasons and 11 consecutive major tournaments)and says we'll make you one of the top 20-25 paid coaches in the country day one like uo did with Altman back in 2010, I don't see much hope for a new coaching hire curing OSU's long term issues. oregon didn't get lucky with Altman, they got smart... although the willingness to play loose with the NCAA recruiting rules probably helped them as well. Altman has done a great job. But they did get lucky with him, as he was their fourth or fifth choice. This past season was horrible. No doubt we should expect far, far better (as does Wayne). But WT is not going anywhere, like it or not. He is our guy for next year at the very least, and I hope he succeeds. The 2020-21 season was a lot of fun.
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Post by osufan2k on Mar 17, 2022 13:22:41 GMT -8
It's hilarious...and yet not surprising since it's Oregon State. GP II basically led the Beavs and Wayne to the NCAA's. Just a funny narrative that Beaver fans have with older white coaches for some odd reason. osufan2k Hallice Cooke announced his intent to transfer, while Robinson was still head coach. Julian Powers quit the team. Challe Barton left the team to play overseas. Eric Moreland declared early for the NBA draft, when he had no chance of being drafted. Roberto Nelson, Devon Collier and Angus Brandt each gradated. When Hallice Cooke announced his intent to transfer, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Cooke's announcement showed quite clearly that Robinson had lost the team and the team would be in complete tear down to studs and rebuild mode. And Tinkle came in and put together a better team the following year with GPII and a bunch of walk-ons. Robinson was a terrible X and O coach. He was supposed to be a great recruiter, but I never really saw it. His time was done. It was obvious. Robinson v. Tinkle is like a Mike Price v. Mike Riley argument. Would you rather have someone who is consistently middle of the road or someone who has great seasons mixed in with terrible seasons? Tinkle 1 Elite 8 2 NCAA Tournament Appearances 5 winning seasons Robinson 0 Elite 8's 0 NCAA Tournament Appearances 1 winning season You can spin that and make it comparable. But they are really not. Additionally, Oregon State went 3-28 this year against the 37th hardest schedule. Only one player played the each game this season: Jarod Lucas. Everyone else missed time for a myriad of reasons. 2021-22 was a snakebit season from beginning to end. We're moving on with Tinkle. It could be better. It could be worse. My mistake on Cooke as I didn't look up the exact timeline of his transfer and I really don't care. It doesn't change my comment and it's not a spin no matter how you see it. Both coaches are bad and their records speak for that, but one is viewed differently and excuses are constantly made for him. You want to bring up the team Wayne inherited after Robinson was fired, but no mention of the 0-18 team Robinson inherited from John? Tinkle was gifted GP2 and without him on the roster, there was no chance of that team making the NCAA tournament. Payton led that team in points, assists, rebounds, and steals. Stats can always be manipulated if you're trying hard to make one coach look worse. Tinkle (8 seasons) 2 losing records 2 seasons of fewer than 10 wins 2 seasons of 5 or less wins 1 season of 20+ wins 2 seasons of finishing last place in conference Overall winning percentage (.460) Conference winning percentage (.358) Robinson (6 seasons) 3 losing records 0 seasons of fewer than 10 wins 0 seasons of 5 or less wins 1 season of 20+ wins 1 season of finishing last place in conference Overall winning percentage (.469) Conference winning percentage (.362) As you can easily see, i've left out some stats that would slightly favor Tinkle, but looking at that list you might think Robinson had the better overall career here. Spin that however you want, just stop making excuses for Tinkle.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 17, 2022 13:58:13 GMT -8
I've seen OSU's SOS at 51, 74, 64, 91. So? Many teams, no ALL teams, with a stronger SOS didn't finish 3-28! Example... ASU SOS 22, considered a far tougher schedule on that site went 14-17 with major contributors missing. Furd @ 31 won 16 games... it goes on and on. Stop with the WT excuses. I earlier showed a list that CR was the superior recruiter. But, again who cares? People keep comparing WT to CR like it makes WT a good coach. Myself and others bring up CR facts not to say he should have stayed. But, to show WT hasn't been the improvement needed, wanted, nor argued on this board. And, the constant excuses (can't wait to hear what year 9 brings. Maybe it's a rebuild job, of his own creation?!) and comparison to the low bar crowd of former coaches only proves how bad he is. Gawd... he has the TWO WORST SEASONAL RECORDS IN OSU HISTORY! This year was even worse, CONFERENCE HISTORY! Yeah, he's in the record book! One I'm betting will not be broken. Plus there were 3 teams with a lower winning % than OSU's 9.7%. So we were #347 (out of 350) There's a couple positives. OK. How about Georgetown? The Hoyas made the Tourney last year with Patrick Ewing as their head coach. This year, they went 6-25 with a schedule that I have seen rated 36th. Georgetown went 0-20 against Big East opponents and finished the season on a 21-game losing streak, having not won a game since a win over Howard on the Ides of December. The Hoyas last win away from DC was in last year's Big East Tournament. Five of the six wins were against American, Siena, Longwood, UMBC and the aforementioned Howard game. The other win was a home win against Syracuse, which effectively finished 10th in the ACC this year. So, was Georgetown's 6-25, 0-20 record in the Big East and 21-game losing streak "better" than Oregon State's 1-20 record against the Pac-12 and 18-game losing streak? Oregon has had a worse record than Oregon State's awful 2021-22 campaign. Tinkle has had two bad seasons, and you choose to define him by them. However, his median season is one with a winning record. The bad season outliers poison the mean. Or to paraphrase your ellipsis and CAPS LOCK-filled sentence: Gawd...last season, he had arguably the BEST SEASON SINCE JFK WAS PRESIDENT! In the past six years, he had the TWO BEST SEASONS BY A SINGLE HEAD COACH SINCE THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL! And you can replace the word TWO with THREE, FOUR, FIVE or SIX. This season sucked, but: When has Oregon State beat six consecutive top 64 teams, when the Beavers were underdogs? ESPN's BPI odds: UCLA 24.3% Oregon 23.2% Colorado 14.8% Tennessee 14.5% Oklahoma State 27.5% Loyola-Chicago 19.4% The odds of Oregon State beating all six teams in a row was roughly 1 out of 15,493. That is lower odds than a person, who is not a professional bowler, bowling a perfect game. That is the odds, as I see it, that you are correct in your assessment of Wayne Tinkle's coaching ability. Andros coached the Giant Killers and was allowed to coach for the next eight years. Why doesn't Tinkle get the same (or even comparable) leeway?
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Post by treasurevalleybeav on Mar 17, 2022 14:06:09 GMT -8
Actually Andros is the perfect example in why not to hold on too long to a coach: last 4 seasons: 2-9, 2-9, 3-8, 1-10
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Post by ag87 on Mar 17, 2022 14:12:19 GMT -8
I don't care who is a better coach between Robinson and Tinkle. As I wrote in a previous post, I'm thinking Tinkle is in the bottom third of P6 head coaches but not the bottom 10. He will be the coach next season. I believe his survival beyond that is some intersection of success next year and available finances. If the conference record is 9-11 (pac-12 has a 20 game schedule now?) and overall is 15-15, he stays. If the records are 7-13 and 12-18, it depends on finances. If it's 3-17 and 8-22, no way can we keep him.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 17, 2022 14:29:03 GMT -8
I've seen OSU's SOS at 51, 74, 64, 91. So? Many teams, no ALL teams, with a stronger SOS didn't finish 3-28! Example... ASU SOS 22, considered a far tougher schedule on that site went 14-17 with major contributors missing. Furd @ 31 won 16 games... it goes on and on. Stop with the WT excuses. I earlier showed a list that CR was the superior recruiter. But, again who cares? People keep comparing WT to CR like it makes WT a good coach. Myself and others bring up CR facts not to say he should have stayed. But, to show WT hasn't been the improvement needed, wanted, nor argued on this board. And, the constant excuses (can't wait to hear what year 9 brings. Maybe it's a rebuild job, of his own creation?!) and comparison to the low bar crowd of former coaches only proves how bad he is. Gawd... he has the TWO WORST SEASONAL RECORDS IN OSU HISTORY! This year was even worse, CONFERENCE HISTORY! Yeah, he's in the record book! One I'm betting will not be broken. Plus there were 3 teams with a lower winning % than OSU's 9.7%. So we were #347 (out of 350) There's a couple positives. I forgot to add that Eddie Payne's 1995-96 season was worse than 2016-17. And Sports Reference rates our SOS as 24th most difficult, skipping past Georgetown.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Mar 17, 2022 16:39:50 GMT -8
You want to bring up the team Wayne inherited after Robinson was fired, but no mention of the 0-18 team Robinson inherited from John? Tinkle was gifted GP2 and without him on the roster, there was no chance of that team making the NCAA tournament. Payton led that team in points, assists, rebounds, and steals. Stats can always be manipulated if you're trying hard to make one coach look worse. Look at who Robinson inherited. Sure, they were an 0-18 team but every one of the players that scored that season returned but Marcel Jones and one or two bench guys who barely played. That's a lot of experience and 3 of those guys were in his top 5-6 players 3 years later. Tinkle inherited 7 guys, none averaged over 4 points a game, and they were all (but the injured N'Diaye) gone in 2 years, and that second season only 1 or 2 Robinson players in the starting lineup for the bulk of the season. Experience counts, even if they were losing seasons. My worry about this upcoming season IS experience. Certainly there was no chance of the team making the NCAA tournament without Gary (who Tinkle did have to re-recruit). Also certainly was that team would have had no chance of making the NCAA tournament without Tres, Stevie and Drew. Tres actually outscored and outrebounded Gary over the course of his final 5 games during the push to become post-season eligible before his season ending injury. Drew led the team a couple of those games as well. He was a HUGE part of it, but it wasn't all Gary that got them to the tournament.
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