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Post by irimi on Feb 27, 2022 19:52:39 GMT -8
Quite the interaction on the OSU bench just now. Jarod Lucas gets subbed out after a bad couple possessions. Asst coach Kerry Rupp gestures for him to take the sit near coaches. Lucas ignores him. Says “I’m done” Rupp responds “that’s the f***ing problem. Right there.” This was a tweet describing situation. Just incredibly frustrating for everyone from players, coaches, administration, and fans. Is the player the problem in this interaction or the coach? As much as you want to say that this interaction paints Lucas in a bad light, it seems to do the same for Rupp. Either way, not good for Beaver Nation.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 27, 2022 20:13:09 GMT -8
The advantage WT will have for next season is that he will be able to claim the program is headed in the right direction as the team will almost certainly be better next year. So, let's say he wins 12 games next season, and 6 conference games does the AD keep him because they have shown significant improvement and the program is trending in the right direction? If you were the AD what kind of record would WT need to keep his job past next season? Imo if he should finish 8th or lower in the conference standings next season, he should be gone.
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 27, 2022 20:15:45 GMT -8
The advantage WT will have for next season is that he will be able to claim the program is headed in the right direction as the team will almost certainly be better next year. So, let's say he wins 12 games next season, and 6 conference games does the AD keep him because they have shown significant improvement and the program is trending in the right direction? If you were the AD what kind of record would WT need to keep his job past next season? Imo if he should finish 8th or lower in the conference standings next season, he should be gone. Final 4 or bust. Like The Who said, “We won’t get fooled again.”
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Post by seastape on Feb 27, 2022 20:52:59 GMT -8
Bring back Davis and Taylor and build around them, the rest of this crew can walk. And Andela, Rand & Lucas. Yes, Lucas can help us. The problem is that he should be a 6th man instant offense guy and not a PAC 12 level starter. I also think Johnson could be a decent player, but wouldn’t be shocked if he leaves. I don't know about Lucas. I was watching him fairly closely in the SC game and, the last 5 minutes or so, if not longer, he looked like he just didn't give a flying f%#*. There were several plays when Davis was bringing the ball up and Lucas was off in the corner, not even looking at Davis and sometimes even playing with his shoes--like he was making sure they were not slippery--but he was lost in the minutiae of it all. It feels like he expected to be THE dude when Ethan left and now that there is at least one better player he has checked out. Admittedly, SC was constantly holding Lucas with what would be many PI and defensive holding penalties if this was football, but the refs were calling nothing. Perhaps Lucas was fed up with the non-calls. But I'm not convinced. Lucas looked like he just did not care. Lucas should be "instant offense" off the bench but probably not for OSU anymore. I think he has lost faith.
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 28, 2022 0:26:32 GMT -8
And Andela, Rand & Lucas. Yes, Lucas can help us. The problem is that he should be a 6th man instant offense guy and not a PAC 12 level starter. I also think Johnson could be a decent player, but wouldn’t be shocked if he leaves. I don't know about Lucas. I was watching him fairly closely in the SC game and, the last 5 minutes or so, if not longer, he looked like he just didn't give a flying f%#*. There were several plays when Davis was bringing the ball up and Lucas was off in the corner, not even looking at Davis and sometimes even playing with his shoes--like he was making sure they were not slippery--but he was lost in the minutiae of it all. It feels like he expected to be THE dude when Ethan left and now that there is at least one better player he has checked out. Admittedly, SC was constantly holding Lucas with what would be many PI and defensive holding penalties if this was football, but the refs were calling nothing. Perhaps Lucas was fed up with the non-calls. But I'm not convinced. Lucas looked like he just did not care. Lucas should be "instant offense" off the bench but probably not for OSU anymore. I think he has lost faith. Lucas is/has been an over rated player from day 1. He's a 6th man at best. And, on a good team not that. He has zero handle, can't play a lick of D, doesn't look to be tough enough rebound, and is a 38% career shooter. His best attribute, FT shooting is below par because he only shoots jumpers. And, since they don't let him get away with his leg kicks to draw fouls he rarely gets to the line. Strangely the 3rd leading scorer in Cali hoops history had no other Pac12 offers? What's the problem at OSU? Jared is the best HS recruit that WT has landed since the sons and Drew!
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Post by nabeav on Feb 28, 2022 9:06:53 GMT -8
"When the bill comes due...."
Won't the bill due get LOWER if we don't have to buy out as many years?
Attendance tanked after the first few losses. Arizona came to town on a weekend and we couldn't draw 4000. Barely over half full for the Oregon game. For reference during the 5-27 season we drew 9201 for the Civil War, and that was at the end of the year when the season was already irredeemable.
I'm not advocating we let him play out his contract no matter what. Not at all. This season is as much on Tinkle and the staff as it is on the players. The level of blame people ascribe to which components of the program will vary person to person.
Are kids transferring the staff's fault? Maybe, but it seems to be pretty common across the country.
Are the transfers we got not being good Tinkle's fault? Maybe, but I seem to remember people being pretty excited we got transfers from Minnesota and Memphis and Maryland.
Lucas is the only player to play in every game this season. Injuries happen to every team, but they don't affect teams equally.
I keep seeing people say that both of Tinkle's NCAA tournament appearances were "lucky." Stop it. There is no luck involved. They won the games they needed to win to get into the tournament. And if those seasons were lucky, why can't these two exceptionally bad seasons be considered "unlucky?"
There are far more people on here giving Tinkle all the credit for the bad seasons and as little credit as possible for the good seasons than the other way around.
As for people saying that Kerry Rupp yelling "that's the f*cking problem right there" reflects poorly on the coaching staff, I just have to laugh. He's not yelling at an 8th grader here. When Riley moved on and Andersen had that ridiculous Civil War where he only took 55 kids or whatever and said "we only took the kids that want to be here and are part of the program" everyone was like "GOOD! These kids need a wake up call and need to get with the program."
My opinion, and I will stress again that this is my opinion and I don't know Tinkle or any of the players, I don't have a friend of a friend that lives next door to someone or sits behind the bench. From what I've seen from watching games on TV, reading reports on the GT, OregonLive, etc, and from being in Gill is that Jarod Lucas views himself as the leader of the team and he might be the only one. I don't know the kid, he may be a really great guy, but just the way he plays and his attitude on the court would drive me nuts both as a teammate and an opponent. I think maybe the coaching staff expected him to be a leader, but he's not the kind of player that I think teammates would want to follow. That's on the coaches for not reading the situation. Again, I'm not there in the locker room or around the team, so maybe it made sense at the time. Maybe it didn't.
But I will stick by what I've said earlier....at no point up until this year did I think it made sense to fire Tinkle. I don't think it makes sense to fire him right now, but when you have a 3 win season, I can't argue with a change being made. If I was in charge, I'd bring him back next year with the expectation that we are competitive in the conference and in contention for the postseason throughout the year.
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Post by irimi on Feb 28, 2022 13:49:00 GMT -8
We don't know the whole scoop on what caused the season to go so bad this year. But, yeah, I bring Tinkle back for one more year, provided he has made significant changes in the assistants.
In the meantime, I start putting out feelers for who might be interested/suited for the position.
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Feb 28, 2022 15:34:12 GMT -8
Ah, but there was the 5-27 before that run. The warning signs were there. Two lucky NCAA appearances have been offset by two firing offense level seasons. I recommended that his contract not be extended past the 6th season as we did with other coaches. But the administration and too many fans could only see the earlier NCAA run but were blind to the 5-27 season. The Elite 8 run muddied the waters at the end of season 7 and has been followed up by a second must-fire season at 3-24.
So what do you have on balance? A coach with a poorer overall record than Robinson and Anderson with little prospects for the future. But we will likely dither for another season and then show him the door, three seasons too late.
So you hated the Elite 8 run? OK. Yes, the first extension was questionable, but I’ll still take it in exchange for what happened last year. He has next year to figure it out or we move on. And this right here is why OSU athletics is where it is today. Where a lifetime of mediocrity keeps you employed (Wayne and Mike), job security is fine just as long as you're not boozing on the job or getting a cheerleading coach pregnant.
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Feb 28, 2022 15:35:33 GMT -8
No, but was it worth it given that the program will be in much worse shape than it would have been with a dismissal after year 6? Because dismissing the last 6 other coaches after year 6 or earlier led to us being in so much better shape? No other coach has been able to put together any semblance of success unless the JJ NIT year or CR CBI championship count. There are zero regrets in my mind keeping Tinkle as long as we have because without him, his recruits, and his coaching staff, we do not have that elite 8 run last season.
That being said, his extension that he received was probably too generous. You HAD to extend him because any program that doesn't reward the success we achieved last year all of a sudden becomes a huge red flag for WT and any coach that we want to hire in the future. No coach would want to go or stay somewhere that doesn't reward a historically successful NCAA run. IMO it should've tacked enough years on to give him 4 years left, with incentives built in to add years/bonuses based on performance.
Like Smails said, he has next year to figure it out and if he doesn't then it's time to move on. It just isn't going to happen this year unless for some reason there is so much attrition that a team cannot be fielded next season.
You could have just given him an extra year, and paid him the bonus that he was rightfully due. Absolutely no one was knocking on Wayne's door offering him a job.
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Feb 28, 2022 15:37:15 GMT -8
We don't know the whole scoop on what caused the season to go so bad this year. But, yeah, I bring Tinkle back for one more year, provided he has made significant changes in the assistants. In the meantime, I start putting out feelers for who might be interested/suited for the position. Yes we actually do know the scoop on what caused the season to go bad. Look at Wayne's track record, last year was the anomaly.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 28, 2022 15:40:31 GMT -8
"When the bill comes due...." Won't the bill due get LOWER if we don't have to buy out as many years? Attendance tanked after the first few losses. Arizona came to town on a weekend and we couldn't draw 4000. Barely over half full for the Oregon game. For reference during the 5-27 season we drew 9201 for the Civil War, and that was at the end of the year when the season was already irredeemable. I'm not advocating we let him play out his contract no matter what. Not at all. This season is as much on Tinkle and the staff as it is on the players. The level of blame people ascribe to which components of the program will vary person to person. Are kids transferring the staff's fault? Maybe, but it seems to be pretty common across the country. Are the transfers we got not being good Tinkle's fault? Maybe, but I seem to remember people being pretty excited we got transfers from Minnesota and Memphis and Maryland. Lucas is the only player to play in every game this season. Injuries happen to every team, but they don't affect teams equally. I keep seeing people say that both of Tinkle's NCAA tournament appearances were "lucky." Stop it. There is no luck involved. They won the games they needed to win to get into the tournament. And if those seasons were lucky, why can't these two exceptionally bad seasons be considered "unlucky?" There are far more people on here giving Tinkle all the credit for the bad seasons and as little credit as possible for the good seasons than the other way around. As for people saying that Kerry Rupp yelling "that's the f*cking problem right there" reflects poorly on the coaching staff, I just have to laugh. He's not yelling at an 8th grader here. When Riley moved on and Andersen had that ridiculous Civil War where he only took 55 kids or whatever and said "we only took the kids that want to be here and are part of the program" everyone was like "GOOD! These kids need a wake up call and need to get with the program." My opinion, and I will stress again that this is my opinion and I don't know Tinkle or any of the players, I don't have a friend of a friend that lives next door to someone or sits behind the bench. From what I've seen from watching games on TV, reading reports on the GT, OregonLive, etc, and from being in Gill is that Jarod Lucas views himself as the leader of the team and he might be the only one. I don't know the kid, he may be a really great guy, but just the way he plays and his attitude on the court would drive me nuts both as a teammate and an opponent. I think maybe the coaching staff expected him to be a leader, but he's not the kind of player that I think teammates would want to follow. That's on the coaches for not reading the situation. Again, I'm not there in the locker room or around the team, so maybe it made sense at the time. Maybe it didn't. But I will stick by what I've said earlier....at no point up until this year did I think it made sense to fire Tinkle. I don't think it makes sense to fire him right now, but when you have a 3 win season, I can't argue with a change being made. If I was in charge, I'd bring him back next year with the expectation that we are competitive in the conference and in contention for the postseason throughout the year. FWIW re: Lucas, he is a team captain and has been out at center court with Calloo for pre-game discussion with the officials and opposing captains every game. An outburst from Rupp could just be frustration that one of the guys picked or voted to be a leader is not seemingly holding up their end of their responsibilties in that moment. And in Lucas's case would you not also be immensely frustrated with a 3 win season and like someone else said, being held constantly on your cuts since opposing teams know he's our only viable shooter from 3? I'm not saying either one is right, but there's a LOT more going on than just that one isolated outburst, if we want to call it that. Jarod will in all likelihood be in the starting line-up tonight as he has been all season. Regardless of what anyone says about him, he has been our leading scorer this year and is shooting the ball better %-wise than his first two years. We probably won't know what really has caused the seemingly massive rift between players and coaches, and players and players until after the season and the transfer portal starts to work itself out, so I'm choosing to wait on judging these interactions we see on the bench as this is just a small sample of the work that goes into an entire season.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 28, 2022 15:47:29 GMT -8
So you hated the Elite 8 run? OK. Yes, the first extension was questionable, but I’ll still take it in exchange for what happened last year. He has next year to figure it out or we move on. And this right here is why OSU athletics is where it is today. Where a lifetime of mediocrity keeps you employed (Wayne and Mike), job security is fine just as long as you're not boozing on the job or getting a cheerleading coach pregnant. So you consider Elite 8 runs "mediocre"........got it. And yes, I'd take 9 bowl games in 14 seasons under mediocre Mike right now. I guess Erickson was pretty mediocre as well. Because, you know, you have to not count the fluke season.
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zzufrevaeb
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Post by zzufrevaeb on Feb 28, 2022 15:59:04 GMT -8
And this right here is why OSU athletics is where it is today. Where a lifetime of mediocrity keeps you employed (Wayne and Mike), job security is fine just as long as you're not boozing on the job or getting a cheerleading coach pregnant. So you consider Elite 8 runs "mediocre"........got it. And yes, I'd take 9 bowl games in 14 seasons under mediocre Mike right now. I guess Erickson was pretty mediocre as well. Because, you know, you have to not count the fluke season. When said coach's record is now WORSE than the guy he replaced...yes. Wait until you find out that Wayne really wasn't that responsible for the Elite 8 run AT ALL! Yep, Erickson's record was so mediocre, that he left Corvallis with a losing record as OSU head coach. Oh wait a minute, he didn't have a losing record as a head coach at OSU unlike Wayne sTinkle. I love the old "guard", just happy to be here and just smiling that there's even a program at all.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 28, 2022 16:07:29 GMT -8
So you consider Elite 8 runs "mediocre"........got it. And yes, I'd take 9 bowl games in 14 seasons under mediocre Mike right now. I guess Erickson was pretty mediocre as well. Because, you know, you have to not count the fluke season. When said coach's record is now WORSE than the guy he replaced...yes. Wait until you find out that Wayne really wasn't that responsible for the Elite 8 run AT ALL!Yep, Erickson's record was so mediocre, that he left Corvallis with a losing record as OSU head coach. Oh wait a minute, he didn't have a losing record as a head coach at OSU unlike Wayne sTinkle. I love the old "guard", just happy to be here and just smiling that there's even a program at all. Ah yes, we had a different secret head coach that nobody knew about. Putin maybe? I love that the two s%#t years are all his fault, but he had nothing to do with the Elite 8 team or the other NCAA appearance. Yes, the old guard that hasn't seen an Elite 8 run since 1982 (vacated) and seen a revolving door of coaches prior to WT wash out. I guess we just settled for "way below mediocrity" for the last 40 years.
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Post by alwaysorange on Feb 28, 2022 16:15:45 GMT -8
There are some that are really stuck on keeping a coach that had three good weeks last year. What I do know is that the current coach has a terrible pac12 record, bad overall record, and can't recruit. I'm willing to take my chances on somebody else.
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