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Post by beaverwbb fan on Feb 26, 2022 20:38:16 GMT -8
Looking specifically at in-conference play, here's how this OSU team has compared to past OSU teams offensively (conference rank in parenthesis): | -- | PPG | FG% | 3FG% | | 21-22 | 60.0 (9) | 40.2 (6) | 31.6 (7) | | 20-21 | 72.1 (2) | 45.6 (2) | 43.6 (1) | | 19-20 | 67.8 (4) | 44.0 (2)
| 35.4 (4) | | 18-19 | 72.0 (5) | 46.5 (4) | 35.7 (4) | | 17-18 | 69.6 (3) | 46.9 (2) | 38.7 (1) |
OSU has almost always been a top-3 or 4 offensive team in the league for the past few years. Playing a slower pace and too many turnovers hasn't always equated to high PPG, but the offense has always been efficient and we've always had reliable three point shooters. The range of years has a lot of different OSU players and some varying styles (in 17-18 OSU played primarily through the post, in 18-19 OSU didn't have much of a post presence), yet each year OSU was pretty efficient on offense. Even in 20-21, we were pretty bad until late January/early February if I recall correctly, but that was mostly due to defensive issues. Fast forward to 21-22, and OSU has been, to say the least, dreadful offensively. Turnovers have almost always been an issue, but this team has been really bad shooting the three-ball and has not finished well -- at all. I think it's been a lot of things including: (1) Youth and inexperience. Rueck's offensive system is pretty complex. I'd assume it takes some time to get it down and get comfortable with it. OSU has been playing a lot of first-year players, especially at guard (Tea, Emily, Greta, and AJ), and another that had about a half-year of experience. The bad part is that there has been pretty much no progression in this respect throughout the year. (2) Haven't been able to overcome the losses from last season. At the end of last season, a fair amount of people were expecting a starting lineup of Aleah, Talia, Sasha, Taya, and Taylor. Fast forward and only two of those players are in the starting lineup. Leading into my next point... (3) The freshman aren't quite ready. Being a McDonald's All-American or a four or five-star recruit doesn't always equate to being ready from the go. Taya was ready, Taylor and Kennedy were (for the most part) ready, Sasha was ready, AJ and Greta don't quite seem to be as ready. They have their moments, but I don't think either was totally ready to step in and fill the void left by Aleah and the unexpected void left by Sasha. I thought Greta could be an efficient, consistent 8-11 PPG scorer and she has not been. (4) The two transfer guards aren't exactly PAC-12 level. "Transfer-ups" rarely equate to major impact in WBB. Rueck knew we needed impact guards and was unable to land one. Ellie has been pretty impactful, but aside from maybe playing a few minutes here and there off the bench, I don't think Emily and Tea are consistent, Pac-12 level players. They've had moments when they look good, but neither has consistently been able to produce on the offensive end. (5) We have no point guard who can consistently lead us to execute the offense. While maybe not point guards in the truest sense of the word, Aleah, Syd, and Mik were all generally proficient in setting up the offense. We have not had that this year and clearly don't have it as Rueck has cycled through 4-5 different options. In summary, this has been the worst offensive team at OSU in recent history and I think there are a lot of reasons for that. With the right personnel, Rueck's offensive system has, or at least has in the past, worked. We've got a lot of guards who aren't PAC-12 ready and that falls on no one besides Rueck. The key to getting back into the top-4/5 of the PAC-12 season will hinge on Rueck's ability to land two players in the portal who can either put the ball in the bucket or help OSU run the offense and are ready to do so at the PAC-12 level as well as the improvement of Talia, Greta, and AJ. |
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Post by dryside on Feb 26, 2022 21:16:31 GMT -8
I don't see where our offense is any more complex than any other team. In fact we look completely lost in half court sets when we try to run simple pick and rolls or off the ball screens to free up shooters.We can't even seem to get into any offensive sets when we encounter half court pressure.How many times do teams play defense in the passing lanes yet we try to force the issue which in most cases create turnovers? We constantly telegraph passes. We DO NOT go to meet the ball in trap situations and those result in turnovers more times then not. What I don't see is our 5 playing at the foul line with cutters going to the basket.Brown is more comfortable there rather then under deep. It's easy to double team any post player down low.Not so much when we free up the lane and run backside picks or cutters off the post. Brown can hit 15 footers all day when she can face up and get a good look. 6' 9" can face up and find the open shooter via Metrovic. She gets in trouble down low because she wants to bring the ball down and then make a move. She does not yet have the finesse for ball fakes and drop steps etc. We have trouble with the 3's ? Then you better find a way to drive to the bucket or get fouled trying.
More important then the offense is the chemistry. We have a lot of moving parts but not a cohesive unit. I don't see the desire,the togetherness, the toughness,the trust in one another compared to past teams. I don't see a team having fun playing together. I don't see the pure joy,the hugs,the high fives. Everyone has to know the strengths and weaknesses of one another. Who you can turn to when you need a rebound or a stop or a score.And that leader has to lead by example and not just by being vocal. When others see the "go to" get going then they all pick up their game. That is sorely lacking.Being the leading scorer in any given game doesn't make you the leader. It has not been pretty to watch this season but more importantly it has to be fixed. This conference will not wait for you to catch up,it will run over you.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 26, 2022 21:26:00 GMT -8
Concerning the last paragraph. Imo her last couple of years at OSU Mikyala Pivic was the heart and soul of the team with her competitiveness, toughness and leadership. Not sure they have anyone on the current roster who fills that role.
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Post by beaveragain on Feb 26, 2022 23:07:39 GMT -8
I think the only problem with TVO as the PG is her difficulty with dealing with the traps. Other teams don't want her to have the ball because she is most of the offense this year. She needs to learn how to draw the foul in this situations. The Beav's also need to have another offensive option so that the other team pays for leaving someone open in order to trap TVO. Putting in Tea and Codding has been an offensive nightmare due to their terrible shooting %'s. If Greta and AJ can improve their shooting %'s next year so that other teams can't tee off on TVO so much the whole outside offense will open up.
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Post by jones on Feb 27, 2022 11:16:05 GMT -8
I don't see where our offense is any more complex than any other team. In fact we look completely lost in half court sets when we try to run simple pick and rolls or off the ball screens to free up shooters.We can't even seem to get into any offensive sets when we encounter half court pressure.How many times do teams play defense in the passing lanes yet we try to force the issue which in most cases create turnovers? We constantly telegraph passes. We DO NOT go to meet the ball in trap situations and those result in turnovers more times then not. What I don't see is our 5 playing at the foul line with cutters going to the basket.Brown is more comfortable there rather then under deep. It's easy to double team any post player down low.Not so much when we free up the lane and run backside picks or cutters off the post. Brown can hit 15 footers all day when she can face up and get a good look. 6' 9" can face up and find the open shooter via Metrovic. She gets in trouble down low because she wants to bring the ball down and then make a move. She does not yet have the finesse for ball fakes and drop steps etc. We have trouble with the 3's ? Then you better find a way to drive to the bucket or get fouled trying.
More important then the offense is the chemistry. We have a lot of moving parts but not a cohesive unit. I don't see the desire,the togetherness, the toughness,the trust in one another compared to past teams. I don't see a team having fun playing together. I don't see the pure joy,the hugs,the high fives. Everyone has to know the strengths and weaknesses of one another. Who you can turn to when you need a rebound or a stop or a score.And that leader has to lead by example and not just by being vocal. When others see the "go to" get going then they all pick up their game. That is sorely lacking.Being the leading scorer in any given game doesn't make you the leader. It has not been pretty to watch this season but more importantly it has to be fixed. This conference will not wait for you to catch up,it will run over you.
Brilliant assessment! |
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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 27, 2022 11:24:03 GMT -8
I don't see where our offense is any more complex than any other team. In fact we look completely lost in half court sets when we try to run simple pick and rolls or off the ball screens to free up shooters.We can't even seem to get into any offensive sets when we encounter half court pressure.How many times do teams play defense in the passing lanes yet we try to force the issue which in most cases create turnovers? We constantly telegraph passes. We DO NOT go to meet the ball in trap situations and those result in turnovers more times then not. What I don't see is our 5 playing at the foul line with cutters going to the basket.Brown is more comfortable there rather then under deep. It's easy to double team any post player down low.Not so much when we free up the lane and run backside picks or cutters off the post. Brown can hit 15 footers all day when she can face up and get a good look. 6' 9" can face up and find the open shooter via Metrovic. She gets in trouble down low because she wants to bring the ball down and then make a move. She does not yet have the finesse for ball fakes and drop steps etc. We have trouble with the 3's ? Then you better find a way to drive to the bucket or get fouled trying.
More important then the offense is the chemistry. We have a lot of moving parts but not a cohesive unit. I don't see the desire,the togetherness, the toughness,the trust in one another compared to past teams. I don't see a team having fun playing together. I don't see the pure joy,the hugs,the high fives. Everyone has to know the strengths and weaknesses of one another. Who you can turn to when you need a rebound or a stop or a score.And that leader has to lead by example and not just by being vocal. When others see the "go to" get going then they all pick up their game. That is sorely lacking.Being the leading scorer in any given game doesn't make you the leader. It has not been pretty to watch this season but more importantly it has to be fixed. This conference will not wait for you to catch up,it will run over you.
“Brown can hit 15 footers all day when she can face up and get a good look.” Really? I don’t want to come across as critical of KB, this has been a tough season for everyone, but I’m not sure her midrange shooting percentage has ever been that great. |
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osu82
Freshman
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Post by osu82 on Feb 27, 2022 11:57:53 GMT -8
SR's 4 out-1-in offense needs to have a strong offensive player in the post, and competent 3 pt shooting at the guards and wings, at least by 2 players, and preferably 3. He just doesn't have either of those this year, particularly after the TJ injury. One can assume SR is a student of the game and is competitive and self-aware enough to evaluate his offensive and defensive strategies going forward. I'd like to see him run more motion offensively in his 4 out, and press more defensively to try to create turnovers and transition baskets, but I'm just watching from the armchair and not getting $800K/yr to figure this stuff out.
I'm agnostic on the new players coming in leading to magical transformation next year. I hope so, but time will tell. The accolades garnered at the high school level--McD AA et al--don't necessarily translate to the court at high level D-1 college basketball, as we have seen. I think part of the problem we're seeing at the 3 pt line is how fast the defense closes on the shooters at this level. Its not high school, or even mid-major ball anymore!
I know the women are playing hard, and the will to succeed is there. They can't be faulted on that score. It just hasn't come together this season, and I'm sure no one is more disappointed about how the season has progressed than the players.
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Post by grayman on Feb 27, 2022 12:10:52 GMT -8
On paper they should be better next year, but on paper they should have been better than they are this year.
They are losing Mack and possibly Corosdale. Are the freshmen forwards going to not only meet the level of performance of Corosdale and Mack but exceed it? Hard to tell, but it won't be all that easy.
To me, it still goes to getting Taylor Jones back and as close to 100 percent as possible and Rueck landing a better than average true point guard who not only has the skill set but enough speed and quickness to hang with other top PGs.
If those things all fall right, the Beavers should be significantly better. If not, well....
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Post by beaveragain on Feb 27, 2022 12:16:56 GMT -8
I don't see where our offense is any more complex than any other team. In fact we look completely lost in half court sets when we try to run simple pick and rolls or off the ball screens to free up shooters.We can't even seem to get into any offensive sets when we encounter half court pressure.How many times do teams play defense in the passing lanes yet we try to force the issue which in most cases create turnovers? We constantly telegraph passes. We DO NOT go to meet the ball in trap situations and those result in turnovers more times then not. What I don't see is our 5 playing at the foul line with cutters going to the basket.Brown is more comfortable there rather then under deep. It's easy to double team any post player down low.Not so much when we free up the lane and run backside picks or cutters off the post. Brown can hit 15 footers all day when she can face up and get a good look. 6' 9" can face up and find the open shooter via Metrovic. She gets in trouble down low because she wants to bring the ball down and then make a move. She does not yet have the finesse for ball fakes and drop steps etc. We have trouble with the 3's ? Then you better find a way to drive to the bucket or get fouled trying.
More important then the offense is the chemistry. We have a lot of moving parts but not a cohesive unit. I don't see the desire,the togetherness, the toughness,the trust in one another compared to past teams. I don't see a team having fun playing together. I don't see the pure joy,the hugs,the high fives. Everyone has to know the strengths and weaknesses of one another. Who you can turn to when you need a rebound or a stop or a score.And that leader has to lead by example and not just by being vocal. When others see the "go to" get going then they all pick up their game. That is sorely lacking.Being the leading scorer in any given game doesn't make you the leader. It has not been pretty to watch this season but more importantly it has to be fixed. This conference will not wait for you to catch up,it will run over you.
"Brown can hit 15 footers all day when she can face up and get a good look" Remember that game against Washington where KB went 6/15? Six of those shots were layups and nine were midrange shots, guess which of those were the six made shots? She's getting better but it's still a work in progress. You haven't seen the happy happy because they have been losing. From what I have seen during games and outside of them they are plenty close. Just not much celebration going to happen until they win some games. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 27, 2022 12:22:32 GMT -8
On paper they should be better next year, but on paper they should have been better than they are this year. They are losing Mack and possibly Corosdale. Are the freshmen forwards going to not only meet the level of performance of Corosdale and Mack but exceed it? Hard to tell, but it won't be all that easy. To me, it still goes to getting Taylor Jones back and as close to 100 percent as possible and Rueck landing a better than average true point guard who not only has the skill set but enough speed and quickness to hang with other top PGs. If those things all fall right, the Beavers should be significantly better. If not, well.... I would consider Taya’s departure after this season to be a near-certainty. That she was in tears on senior day indicates to me that she’s made her decision and will be moving forward into the “real world” after this season ends. I don’t have any inside info, though. |
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Post by rmancarl on Feb 27, 2022 20:09:39 GMT -8
Looking specifically at in-conference play, here's how this OSU team has compared to past OSU teams offensively (conference rank in parenthesis): | -- | PPG | FG% | 3FG% | | 21-22 | 60.0 (9) | 40.2 (6) | 31.6 (7) | | 20-21 | 72.1 (2) | 45.6 (2) | 43.6 (1) | | 19-20 | 67.8 (4) | 44.0 (2)
| 35.4 (4) | | 18-19 | 72.0 (5) | 46.5 (4) | 35.7 (4) | | 17-18 | 69.6 (3) | 46.9 (2) | 38.7 (1) |
OSU has almost always been a top-3 or 4 offensive team in the league for the past few years. Playing a slower pace and too many turnovers hasn't always equated to high PPG, but the offense has always been efficient and we've always had reliable three point shooters. The range of years has a lot of different OSU players and some varying styles (in 17-18 OSU played primarily through the post, in 18-19 OSU didn't have much of a post presence), yet each year OSU was pretty efficient on offense. Even in 20-21, we were pretty bad until late January/early February if I recall correctly, but that was mostly due to defensive issues. Fast forward to 21-22, and OSU has been, to say the least, dreadful offensively. Turnovers have almost always been an issue, but this team has been really bad shooting the three-ball and has not finished well -- at all. I think it's been a lot of things including: (1) Youth and inexperience. Rueck's offensive system is pretty complex. I'd assume it takes some time to get it down and get comfortable with it. OSU has been playing a lot of first-year players, especially at guard (Tea, Emily, Greta, and AJ), and another that had about a half-year of experience. The bad part is that there has been pretty much no progression in this respect throughout the year. (2) Haven't been able to overcome the losses from last season. At the end of last season, a fair amount of people were expecting a starting lineup of Aleah, Talia, Sasha, Taya, and Taylor. Fast forward and only two of those players are in the starting lineup. Leading into my next point... (3) The freshman aren't quite ready. Being a McDonald's All-American or a four or five-star recruit doesn't always equate to being ready from the go. Taya was ready, Taylor and Kennedy were (for the most part) ready, Sasha was ready, AJ and Greta don't quite seem to be as ready. They have their moments, but I don't think either was totally ready to step in and fill the void left by Aleah and the unexpected void left by Sasha. I thought Greta could be an efficient, consistent 8-11 PPG scorer and she has not been. (4) The two transfer guards aren't exactly PAC-12 level. "Transfer-ups" rarely equate to major impact in WBB. Rueck knew we needed impact guards and was unable to land one. Ellie has been pretty impactful, but aside from maybe playing a few minutes here and there off the bench, I don't think Emily and Tea are consistent, Pac-12 level players. They've had moments when they look good, but neither has consistently been able to produce on the offensive end. (5) We have no point guard who can consistently lead us to execute the offense. While maybe not point guards in the truest sense of the word, Aleah, Syd, and Mik were all generally proficient in setting up the offense. We have not had that this year and clearly don't have it as Rueck has cycled through 4-5 different options. In summary, this has been the worst offensive team at OSU in recent history and I think there are a lot of reasons for that. With the right personnel, Rueck's offensive system has, or at least has in the past, worked. We've got a lot of guards who aren't PAC-12 ready and that falls on no one besides Rueck. The key to getting back into the top-4/5 of the PAC-12 season will hinge on Rueck's ability to land two players in the portal who can either put the ball in the bucket or help OSU run the offense and are ready to do so at the PAC-12 level as well as the improvement of Talia, Greta, and AJ. beaverwbb fan, I wish some on this board would pay more attention to your post. Thanks for the 'common sense' in the midst of a little bit of craziness at times. Your last paragraph is absolutely correct. If next year is to be successful there needs to be someone besides Talia who can put the ball in the bucket and help handle the ball and set up the offense. With improvement from some of the young players, and the return of Taylor, perhaps the Beavs can get by with just one transfer being the answer, but two makes more sense. The team this season would have looked totally different had Aleah returned, and Aleah and Shasa would have made the backcourt special. Although I understand the "we need a true point guard", or "we need a quick/fast point guard" talk, we had the 'fast' point guard this year (Tea), and that wasn't the answer. I would have been much happier with a Syd or a Mik, rather than wishing for a 'true' point, or a 'quick' point. SR has proved he doesn't need a quick point guard to make the Beavs a strong offensive team, but what he does need is more than one player who can carry the load, and put the ball in the basket. Once Taylor went down, Talia was about all that was left who could score this year. Taya had a few good games, Ellie came on stronger toward the end of the year, but in reality, nobody else was a threat, so Talia was left to be the player the other team keyed on, and the player the Beavs had to count on. IMHO, this offseason may be the most important in some time for the Beavs. Player development, freshman readiness, and adding transfer(s) are all critical if the Beavs are to move back toward the top of the Pac-12 next year. |
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Post by hoopheritic on Feb 28, 2022 6:39:47 GMT -8
I haven't looked at the pace of play numbers but I think that will show as the main issue. TVO is very slow and is used to playing iso bully ball. We eventually went to Codding who is also slow albeit higher IQ. This stagnates the offense.
We also get very few fast break buckets and almost zero run-out layups. On a d-board, whoever gets it should immediately push the ball (apart from a few bigs with no handle) up floor with a couple dribbles as everyone runs the lanes. It drives me nuts when someone with a perfectly fine handle gets a D-board and the stands there waiting for the PG while the defense sets up. This just doesn't work in modern basketball.
We also do a lot of back to the basket post-ups which are very inefficient, slow the offense down, and when missed often lead to breaks the other way.
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Post by wbosh15 on Feb 28, 2022 8:37:35 GMT -8
So, I think TVO is the only guard on the roster that truely has Pac-12 level skills as a lead guard. The times she was running the show against CO the offense looked a bit better, Mack/Tea/Codding did there best but that was just a disaster. I think the biggest reason SR has her playing off ball currently is it takes too much out of her to run the offense. I think her conditioning will need to take another step up in the off season. The other freshman guards, I think will get there but aren't there yet. AJ has the quickness and agressiveness, but she's not yet making the right reads. GK is not trusting her self, and stuggling a bit with her shot. I think they will both come around, just aren't there yet.
Hopefully we have a nice performance against the SunDevils.
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Post by sewingbeaver on Feb 28, 2022 15:40:04 GMT -8
One stat that can really jump off the box score is when the other team has A LOT more shots attempted than the Beavs. A recent example is Colorado. They attempted 62 shots, Beavs just 48. Did some crunching with the Pac-12 stat file.
It's tough to make shots if they aren't even attempted. Clearly this "average" math doesn't show the whole story, but it does show that Beavs are taking 8 fewer shots per game than Stanford. Is it all related to turnovers? Offensive rebounds? Slower offense? Lack of steals? Not sure. Hopeful that Scott continues to be a student of the game AND is willing to own the fact that statistically Beavs were mid/bottom of the Pac-12 this year.
GO BEAVS - Beat ASU!
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Post by beaveragain on Feb 28, 2022 20:33:26 GMT -8
One stat that can really jump off the box score is when the other team has A LOT more shots attempted than the Beavs. A recent example is Colorado. They attempted 62 shots, Beavs just 48. Did some crunching with the Pac-12 stat file.
It's tough to make shots if they aren't even attempted. Clearly this "average" math doesn't show the whole story, but it does show that Beavs are taking 8 fewer shots per game than Stanford. Is it all related to turnovers? Offensive rebounds? Slower offense? Lack of steals? Not sure. Hopeful that Scott continues to be a student of the game AND is willing to own the fact that statistically Beavs were mid/bottom of the Pac-12 this year.
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
GO BEAVS - Beat ASU!
The attempts before the conference and after the conference started are quite different. This is a reflection of when Jones stopped playing and the Beav's rebounding tanked. Losing the rebound battle means fewer shot attempts. |
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