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Post by beavheart on Feb 21, 2022 13:36:26 GMT -8
Our 2007 team was a "borderline" team, and we won it all. Are we so sure that the ratings have it right? Maybe, just maybe, the west coast is better at baseball than most people think, and those "top" teams from the SEC were enjoying inflated ratings when they also won it all. Not saying they were "bad" teams, but that all of this ranking stuff is mostly fluff, not reality... except for when it influences that NET ratings, or the selection committee. Bottom line, you throw enough crap at the wall and eventually it's going to stick. Pointing out the SEC's dominance in the sport while they are being allowed more opportunities than anyone else is the definition of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Let's look at this another way. The SEC is isn't exactly starting this year with a bang. ACC also took some bad losses last weekend. The Pac12 on the other hand just had it's best first weekend that I can remember. If this keeps up, will it matter? I have my doubts. In fact, I'm pretty sure that even if the SEC tanks all season long, and the Pac12 has it's best collective season ever that the SEC will still get more teams in, and more host sites. The RPI will still continue to churn out the same results that it has been for years, and that's all that will matter. Nearly the entire SEC will be in the post season, and some middling Pac12 teams will be left home. Because, you know, they're just better. So the RPI is rigged too? We should just give up. Our 2007 team was not even borderline. We got in because we won it the year before. If you haven't figured out that the RPI awards the teams in the south because they are surrounded by way more small school baseball programs that they beat up on every year then all we are going to do is argue past each other. This is a known "phenomenon". The RPI punishes the west coast because there's not enough lower tier D1 programs for everyone to build their resume on. ESPECIALLY here in the NW. |
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Post by easyheat on Feb 21, 2022 13:56:58 GMT -8
Long Beach State went into Starksville and took 2 of 3 from the defending National Champs, who were ranked # or #4 in the pre-season polls. Eric Valenzuela is a good coach, and has a good ball club at LBSU.
They come to Goss on a fateful mission for 3 games in April. It will all come out in the wash.
Not a fun series for the Dirtbags
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Post by bwildbeaver on Feb 21, 2022 13:57:53 GMT -8
Whoops, thought I hadn't posted something and did. My bad....
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 21, 2022 14:46:21 GMT -8
So the RPI is rigged too? We should just give up. Our 2007 team was not even borderline. We got in because we won it the year before. If you haven't figured out that the RPI awards the teams in the south because they are surrounded by way more small school baseball programs that they beat up on every year then all we are going to do is argue past each other. This is a known "phenomenon". The RPI punishes the west coast because there's not enough lower tier D1 programs for everyone to build their resume on. ESPECIALLY here in the NW. Beating up on crappy schools does not boost your RPI |
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Post by beavheart on Feb 21, 2022 20:41:59 GMT -8
If you haven't figured out that the RPI awards the teams in the south because they are surrounded by way more small school baseball programs that they beat up on every year then all we are going to do is argue past each other. This is a known "phenomenon". The RPI punishes the west coast because there's not enough lower tier D1 programs for everyone to build their resume on. ESPECIALLY here in the NW. Beating up on crappy schools does not boost your RPI Wins do, in fact, boost your RPI. I'm not saying the SEC is bad, nor am I saying that the Sun Belt, or Southern Conference or whatever teams they regularly beat are bad either. But to have 8 SEC teams in the top 25 is laughable. Even when they lose they just stay right there in the rankings. That's dumb. Pointing out that the SEC gets too much cred and that the RPI is skewed doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with them being any good at all. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 21, 2022 20:48:56 GMT -8
So the RPI is rigged too? We should just give up. Our 2007 team was not even borderline. We got in because we won it the year before. If you haven't figured out that the RPI awards the teams in the south because they are surrounded by way more small school baseball programs that they beat up on every year then all we are going to do is argue past each other. This is a known "phenomenon". The RPI punishes the west coast because there's not enough lower tier D1 programs for everyone to build their resume on. ESPECIALLY here in the NW. Plus, the Conference Tournaments tend to pool RPI further, pushing all team's RPI up. That was why the Pac-10 started up the Pac-10 Tournament in basketball. And now the Pac-12 won't be at that disadvantage either in baseball. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 21, 2022 21:47:40 GMT -8
Don't forget. SEC teams are too good to be unranked. 8 SEC teams in D1 rankings. Entire 3rd of their "top 25". Meanwhile they have a grand total of 3 Pac12 teams. Just a notch under the consistently amazing Big12 with 4 teams and well behind the ACC. #9 Florida lost a home series to Liberty on opening weekend. Guess which teams are now both "top 25" teams. D1Baseball = SEC/ACC lapdog It may be that the "south" and some other conferences have actually earned that bias?! Over the Pac12 last decade I can recall (9) Pac12 CWS appearances: Zona ('12, '16, '21) Furd ('21) OSU ('13, '17, '18) UCLA ('13) UW ('18) Not a hugely impressive resume as a conference. Plus the "imagined" Pac8/10/12 elite teams from yesteryear have not been for some time... ASU, SC (43 appearances, 17 combined titles)... with no appearances since 2010, 2001. The SEC and ACC have (37) CWS and (12) championship series appearances in that time with (15) different teams (9 SEC, 6 ACC). *quick peruse so numbers could be off slightly. Pretty easy to see where/why the benefit of the doubt may fall. Especially in meaningless early season rankings (or rankings period) by those who don't chose the at-large teams. You left off UCLA's 2012 appearance. Before I begin. Dude!  You are like a self-hating Oregon State fan. I really hate that I support this team. Anyway, continuing on.......... Pac-12 National Championships in 2012, 2013 and 2018. That is three National Championships in 10 appearances. 30%. The ACC and SEC combined have five National Championships in 38 appearances (I count 13 ACC appearances and 25 SEC appearances). 13%. The ACC has all of 1 National Championship in 13 appearances. 8%. The SEC has four National Championships in 25 appearances. 16%. You point out Championship Series appearances. The Pac-12 is 6-1 in Championship Series appearances, each against the SEC. The ACC has only won a National Championship against the SEC. The SEC also has only won National Championships against themselves (twice) or the ACC (once). Otherwise, the only team that the SEC has beat was the poison pill that helped to take down Oregon State and then downed UCLA in 2019, Michigan. The Dores still needed three games to sneak by the Wolverines. Or how about Pac-12 versus ACC opponents: Arizona 4 - Florida State 3 Florida State 4 - UCLA 1 Arizona 10 - Florida State 3 Oregon State 11 - Louisville 4 (Louisville was back in the Big East in 2013 but is now in the ACC) UCLA 2 - NC State 1 UCLA 4 - North Carolina 1 Arizona 5 - Miami 1 North Carolina 8 - Oregon State 6 Oregon State 11 - North Carolina 6 NC State 10 - Stanford 4 Pac-12 7 - ACC 3 Pac-12 versus SEC opponents: Arizona 5 - South Carolina 1 Arizona 4 - South Carolina 1 Mississippi State 5 - Oregon State 4 UCLA 2 - LSU 1 Mississippi State 4 - Oregon State 1 UCLA 3 - Mississippi State 1 UCLA 8 - Mississippi State 0 Oregon State 13 - LSU 1 LSU 3 - Oregon State 1 LSU 6 - Oregon State 1 Mississippi State 1 - Washington 0 Oregon State 12 - Mississippi State 2 Oregon State 5 - Mississippi State 2 Arkansas 4 - Oregon State 1 Oregon State 5 - Arkansas 3 Oregon State 5 - Arkansas 0 Vanderbilt 7 - Arizona 6 Vanderbilt 6 - Stanford 5 Pac-12 10 - SEC 7 Earned bias? If someone has earned a bias, it's the Pac-12. And yet, Southeastern honks look at facts upside down and assert that repeated failure is somehow success. The Pac-12 get the short end of the stick repeatedly and succeed more often than the ACC and SEC, who get most of the breaks. The ACC and SEC have to try hard to fail. Yet they do. Repeatedly. |
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 21, 2022 22:26:19 GMT -8
Post/reply to above edited/deleted*
*Not wanting to initiate the certain ridiculous, redundant, "Robb Thomasesque" diatribe(s) that would surely follow for days.
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Post by beavheart on Feb 22, 2022 8:07:40 GMT -8
Earned bias? If someone has earned a bias, it's the Pac-12. And yet, Southeastern honks look at facts upside down and assert that repeated failure is somehow success. The Pac-12 get the short end of the stick repeatedly and succeed more often than the ACC and SEC, who get most of the breaks. The ACC and SEC have to try hard to fail. Yet they do. Repeatedly. I'm just going to add one thing, and then gladly pass the baton to Wilky. If the SEC is so damn good and DEEP, top to bottom, then why has no one from the middle of that league made any noise in the post season, ever? West coast teams have won it all after coming out of nowhere. Like us in 2007, or Frenso St. Washington made it to Omaha after a mediocre season. Has any SEC even made it to Omaha that didn't host all the way there? If the conference is "so good" then you would have thought a middling SEC team would have smashed it's way through the post season, on the road, to make it to Omaha and push for a championship by now. I'm having trouble squaring that one. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 22, 2022 9:42:29 GMT -8
Earned bias? If someone has earned a bias, it's the Pac-12. And yet, Southeastern honks look at facts upside down and assert that repeated failure is somehow success. The Pac-12 get the short end of the stick repeatedly and succeed more often than the ACC and SEC, who get most of the breaks. The ACC and SEC have to try hard to fail. Yet they do. Repeatedly. I'm just going to add one thing, and then gladly pass the baton to Wilky. If the SEC is so damn good and DEEP, top to bottom, then why has no one from the middle of that league made any noise in the post season, ever? West coast teams have won it all after coming out of nowhere. Like us in 2007, or Frenso St. Washington made it to Omaha after a mediocre season. Has any SEC even made it to Omaha that didn't host all the way there? If the conference is "so good" then you would have thought a middling SEC team would have smashed it's way through the post season, on the road, to make it to Omaha and push for a championship by now. I'm having trouble squaring that one. The SEC is top heavy, typically. But vandy/Florida/LSU get top recruiting classes year in, year out. Even MSU/Ole Miss are usually stacked.....So there's a lot of hype, cuz on paper, they are loaded with talent. That's why they get the benefit of the doubt. |
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 22, 2022 11:00:21 GMT -8
I'm just going to add one thing, and then gladly pass the baton to Wilky. If the SEC is so damn good and DEEP, top to bottom, then why has no one from the middle of that league made any noise in the post season, ever? West coast teams have won it all after coming out of nowhere. Like us in 2007, or Frenso St. Washington made it to Omaha after a mediocre season. Has any SEC even made it to Omaha that didn't host all the way there? If the conference is "so good" then you would have thought a middling SEC team would have smashed it's way through the post season, on the road, to make it to Omaha and push for a championship by now. I'm having trouble squaring that one. The SEC is top heavy, typically. But vandy/Florida/LSU get top recruiting classes year in, year out. Even MSU/Ole Miss are usually stacked.....So there's a lot of hype, cuz on paper, they are loaded with talent. That's why they get the benefit of the doubt. Some seem to confuse hype, top to bottom depth, multiple teams with top recruiting classes, and NCAA tourney invites to predictors of success in the tourney. There are 48 teams that are eliminated in one weekend. And baseball is sometimes very blind to supposedly superior talent. But, as mentioned earlier, individual game results doesn't negate 3 dozen+ CWS final 2 appearances over the recent decade between the two supposedly overrated conferences. And, the initial post never justified EC bias, simply offered one easy reason for such opinions. Then they also seem to forget that these polls are just opinions and again aren't very accurate by season's end. Opinions that change each week. The extremely funny thing is how "accurate" they are when tracking/ranking OSU, but completely off base when doing so with the SEC teams. Even though these polls mean zip. |
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Post by joecool on Feb 22, 2022 12:02:24 GMT -8
I'm mostly joking but is there a trophy for winning the Sanderson Ford Collegiate Classic?
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Feb 22, 2022 12:44:02 GMT -8
The SEC is top heavy, typically. But vandy/Florida/LSU get top recruiting classes year in, year out. Even MSU/Ole Miss are usually stacked.....So there's a lot of hype, cuz on paper, they are loaded with talent. That's why they get the benefit of the doubt. Some seem to confuse hype, top to bottom depth, multiple teams with top recruiting classes, and NCAA tourney invites to predictors of success in the tourney. There are 48 teams that are eliminated in one weekend. And baseball is sometimes very blind to supposedly superior talent. But, as mentioned earlier, individual game results doesn't negate 3 dozen+ CWS final 2 appearances over the recent decade between the two supposedly overrated conferences. And, the initial post never justified EC bias, simply offered one easy reason for such opinions. Then they also seem to forget that these polls are just opinions and again aren't very accurate by season's end. Opinions that change each week. The extremely funny thing is how "accurate" they are when tracking/ranking OSU, but completely off base when doing so with the SEC teams. Even though these polls mean zip. I don't give a whole lot of consideration to rankings, especially early on. The prognosticators are all over the place. And every fan thinks their team should be ranked higher, blah, blah, blah. We have a competitive schedule. We take care of biz, we should be hosting a regional. We REALLY take care of biz, and we earn a top 8 seed, and potentially host a super. The talent is there. I think the drive is there. Now just gotta execute, and hope everything else falls into place. |
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Post by beavheart on Feb 22, 2022 13:05:27 GMT -8
I'm just going to add one thing, and then gladly pass the baton to Wilky. If the SEC is so damn good and DEEP, top to bottom, then why has no one from the middle of that league made any noise in the post season, ever? West coast teams have won it all after coming out of nowhere. Like us in 2007, or Frenso St. Washington made it to Omaha after a mediocre season. Has any SEC even made it to Omaha that didn't host all the way there? If the conference is "so good" then you would have thought a middling SEC team would have smashed it's way through the post season, on the road, to make it to Omaha and push for a championship by now. I'm having trouble squaring that one. The SEC is top heavy, typically. But vandy/Florida/LSU get top recruiting classes year in, year out. Even MSU/Ole Miss are usually stacked.....So there's a lot of hype, cuz on paper, they are loaded with talent. That's why they get the benefit of the doubt. So, why hasn't the middle of the conference done anything remarkable in the post season? |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 22, 2022 14:35:13 GMT -8
Earned bias? If someone has earned a bias, it's the Pac-12. And yet, Southeastern honks look at facts upside down and assert that repeated failure is somehow success. The Pac-12 get the short end of the stick repeatedly and succeed more often than the ACC and SEC, who get most of the breaks. The ACC and SEC have to try hard to fail. Yet they do. Repeatedly. I'm just going to add one thing, and then gladly pass the baton to Wilky. If the SEC is so damn good and DEEP, top to bottom, then why has no one from the middle of that league made any noise in the post season, ever? West coast teams have won it all after coming out of nowhere. Like us in 2007, or Frenso St. Washington made it to Omaha after a mediocre season. Has any SEC even made it to Omaha that didn't host all the way there? If the conference is "so good" then you would have thought a middling SEC team would have smashed it's way through the post season, on the road, to make it to Omaha and push for a championship by now. I'm having trouble squaring that one. In 2021, Arkansas, Tennessee, Vandy and Mississippi State were each given National Seeds. Florida hosted in a regional that I actively advocated Oregon State to receive an invite to, because it appeared to me to be the softest of the 16. The Gators lost 24-4 in two games against South Florida and South Alabama. The other five escaped their regionals. Ole Miss was paired with Arizona and gave up 28 runs in Tucson. Arkansas lost two one run games at home against NC State. Mississippi State was outscored against the ACC Champion, Notre Dame, but won two games out of three in Starkville. Tennessee and Vanderbilt won each game by multiple runs at home en route to Omaha. In 2019, Vandy, Georgia, Arkansas and Mississippi State were each given National Seeds. Ole Miss and LSU hosted Regionals. Georgia lost two games against Florida State in Athens by a combined 18 runs. That opened the door for LSU to host a Super Regional. LSU got swept by Florida State and out of the Tournament. Arkansas and Ole Miss played in Fayetteville with the Razorbacks outscoring Ole Miss 30-16 in three games. Duke beat Vandy by 13 in the opener in Nashville, but the Dores rallied to take the last two. Even though Stanford had a better winning percentage than Mississippi State and were better than the #11 overall ranking they ultimately received, the Cardinal had to play the Bulldogs in front of 13,132 cowbell ringing fans in Starkville. Mississippi State and the cowbells proved too much for the Cardinal, who got swept. |
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