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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 18, 2022 18:41:59 GMT -8
This from Canzano
No doubt, Oregon State athletic director Scott Barnes was poised a year ago to terminate his men’s basketball coach, Wayne Tinkle. The Beavers struggled mightily in the early part of last season, then somehow turned things around and played five inspired weeks of basketball to finish the season.
OSU won the Pac-12 tournament and blitzed to the Elite Eight. It was one of the best sports stories in our state last year. Tinkle was, appropriately, awarded last April with a contract extension that left him with six more years on his deal and would pay him $17.2 million over that span.
The Beavers are 3-21 this season.
Don’t feel bad for Tinkle. It’s his roster. The players are soft, not resilient and don’t play well together. But there’s a problem now -- OSU can’t afford to fire Tinkle. It owes him too much money. I’m told Barnes gave Tinkle a vote of confidence a few weeks ago and told the basketball coach, “I know you’ll figure this out,” but I can’t help but wonder about buyer’s remorse.
I expect Tinkle will get some pressure to change out one or more of his longtime assistants. I also think we’re going to see mass turnover on the roster. Tinkle and staff made some serious mistakes in recruiting last offseason. You know in a game of Scrabble how you may skip a turn and instead turn in your tiles? Feels like OSU men’s basketball is at that point.
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Post by OSUprof on Feb 18, 2022 20:57:58 GMT -8
Some of us could see the truth but there were too many that defended the status quo. He is a nice guy and had just enough success to have folks believing. For a fan base that is convinced that we cannot win because everyone else is cheating and we don't have enough money, that was enough for him to be a part of the do it the right way, best little college town story that we tell ourselves. Barnes bought in too. Below are some past arguments that failed to resonate with the defenders. Others gave similar warnings that were unheeded.
Reality
OFFICIAL Game Thread: Beavs vs. Buffs Feb 6, 2022 at 6:21pm Quint, akbeaver, and 2 more like this
Post by OSUprof on Feb 6, 2022 at 6:21pm
I disagree with the notion that the only impediment to better OSU MBB teams is for recruiting to improve. This implies that Tinkle is otherwise a good coach except for recruiting. Looking past the talent on the floor, do you see a cohesive underlying offensive or defensive philosophy that he's imparting to his players through coaching? Do the players show this approach to the game on the court? Are his teams are strong in the fundamentals of the game? Tinkle is who he is and this has been known to folks that know sports for a long time. The rest of OSU's fans see guys running up and down a court and that's the limit of their basketball knowledge. The trouble for OSU is that good recruits know the difference and know that Tinkle is not teaching his guys the fundamentals of the game and they're sufficiently informed to see that he doesn't have good game plans or in-game coaching.
A better sales pitch is not going to improve recruiting, only better coaching.
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Sarcasm
Wyoming Dec 7, 2020 at 12:06pm damnstraight, aicandme, and 3 more like this
Post by OSUprof on Dec 7, 2020 at 12:06pm
You are all just too hard on poor Wayne. He's on year 7 of a 15-year plan here at OSU - I mean that's what we gave Pat Casey before he did anything meaningful. Wayne deserves the same. Unlike Wayne, Pat Casey had great facilities and financial support of his program. Wayne has none of those advantages so it's way too early to judge him.
Wayne won 3 more conference games over a six-year period than that Craig Robinson fellow and thus he got more years on his contract than Robinson. In comparing Wayne to other coaches, it's always fair to throw out his worst season while not doing the same for the those being compared.
Can't you all see how much potential that Wayne has? His teams might not win every game but they do all the little things right - he's teaching his guys the fundamentals of the game and it shows. And these skills will translate to wins, not this year but maybe sometime in the next 5-6 years.
Coaching men's basketball is a lot harder than coaching women's basketball. Literally anyone can recruit top notch women to a place like Corvallis, but it's a tough sell for prospective men's players. Women are notorious for not caring about hot night spots, the lack of a warm and dry climate, and a close and convenient airport.
OSU fans expect too much of Wayne.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Logic and Reason
WT on the hot seat article Feb 6, 2020 at 8:08am ostater, bennyorange, and 1 more like this
Post by OSUprof on Feb 6, 2020 at 8:08am
Tinkle has now coached in 100 conference games. His teams have won 38 of them.
At the 100 conference game mark, Robinson's teams won 36 of them.
A two game difference in 100 games played. That's a negligible difference. Besides, the conference is weaker during the run of Tinkle than that of Robinson. So conference records are a wash.
How about overall records? Tinkle is at 0.489 so far in his 6th season. Robinson was 0.481 at the exact same spot in his 6th season. In other words, Tinkle's teams are winning roughly 49 games out of every 100 played while Robinson's teams won roughly 48 games out of every 100 played. A 1 win difference. That's a wash.
How about fan interest? Tinkle's team's are drawing an average 217 more fans per game than Robinson's teams across 6 seasons. That's despite season ticket sales incentives that were not given during the Robinson era.
Tinkle did have a NCAA appearance - a big accomplishment. He also recorded the only 5-win season in the past 100 years of Beaver basketball - the lowest win total of the period. That season set a record for the lowest winning percentage in OSU history at 0.156. The good is offset by the bad again here.
Some will tell you that the bad season wasn't his fault. But I'll tell you that every coach has injuries or lost recruits - and in the end it counts against the coach.
But not with Teflon Tinkle.
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Direct Appeal
We need to contact AD Barnes Jan 25, 2020 at 5:33pm baseba1111, damnstraight, and 8 more like this
Post by OSUprof on Jan 25, 2020 at 5:33pm
Mr. Barnes:
It's time that you work your magic again. You were able to convince Gary Andersen to walk away from the remainder of his contract at a time when the football program was in freefall. This permitted Andersen to rehab himself and start over elsewhere. But this action also allowed OSU to start anew without the financial burden of contract obligations.
The men's basketball program is in freefall right now and is in need of a reset. It would be best for all parties if you could convince Coach Tinkle to walk away from his remaining contract. He is out of his element at OSU and might be better suited as coach elsewhere. I don't need to tell you what that action would do for OSU in setting up the men's basketball program for a fresh start.
An OSU fan.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 18, 2022 21:13:13 GMT -8
I don't think Barnes saying something to the effect of "I know you will figure it out" is that much of a vote of confidence. What he was thinking but didn't say outload was "and if you don't you will be gone after next season."
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 18, 2022 21:36:19 GMT -8
Some of us could see the truth but there were too many that defended the status quo. He is a nice guy and had just enough success to have folks believing. For a fan base that is convinced that we cannot win because everyone else is cheating and we don't have enough money, that was enough for him to be a part of the do it the right way, best little college town story that we tell ourselves. Barnes bought in too. Below are some past arguments that failed to resonate with the defenders. Others gave similar warnings that were unheeded.
Reality
OFFICIAL Game Thread: Beavs vs. Buffs Feb 6, 2022 at 6:21pm Quint, akbeaver, and 2 more like this
Post by OSUprof on Feb 6, 2022 at 6:21pm
I disagree with the notion that the only impediment to better OSU MBB teams is for recruiting to improve. This implies that Tinkle is otherwise a good coach except for recruiting. Looking past the talent on the floor, do you see a cohesive underlying offensive or defensive philosophy that he's imparting to his players through coaching? Do the players show this approach to the game on the court? Are his teams are strong in the fundamentals of the game? Tinkle is who he is and this has been known to folks that know sports for a long time. The rest of OSU's fans see guys running up and down a court and that's the limit of their basketball knowledge. The trouble for OSU is that good recruits know the difference and know that Tinkle is not teaching his guys the fundamentals of the game and they're sufficiently informed to see that he doesn't have good game plans or in-game coaching.
A better sales pitch is not going to improve recruiting, only better coaching.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sarcasm
Wyoming Dec 7, 2020 at 12:06pm damnstraight, aicandme, and 3 more like this
Post by OSUprof on Dec 7, 2020 at 12:06pm
You are all just too hard on poor Wayne. He's on year 7 of a 15-year plan here at OSU - I mean that's what we gave Pat Casey before he did anything meaningful. Wayne deserves the same. Unlike Wayne, Pat Casey had great facilities and financial support of his program. Wayne has none of those advantages so it's way too early to judge him.
Wayne won 3 more conference games over a six-year period than that Craig Robinson fellow and thus he got more years on his contract than Robinson. In comparing Wayne to other coaches, it's always fair to throw out his worst season while not doing the same for the those being compared.
Can't you all see how much potential that Wayne has? His teams might not win every game but they do all the little things right - he's teaching his guys the fundamentals of the game and it shows. And these skills will translate to wins, not this year but maybe sometime in the next 5-6 years.
Coaching men's basketball is a lot harder than coaching women's basketball. Literally anyone can recruit top notch women to a place like Corvallis, but it's a tough sell for prospective men's players. Women are notorious for not caring about hot night spots, the lack of a warm and dry climate, and a close and convenient airport.
OSU fans expect too much of Wayne.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Logic and Reason
WT on the hot seat article Feb 6, 2020 at 8:08am ostater, bennyorange, and 1 more like this
Post by OSUprof on Feb 6, 2020 at 8:08am
Tinkle has now coached in 100 conference games. His teams have won 38 of them.
At the 100 conference game mark, Robinson's teams won 36 of them.
A two game difference in 100 games played. That's a negligible difference. Besides, the conference is weaker during the run of Tinkle than that of Robinson. So conference records are a wash.
How about overall records? Tinkle is at 0.489 so far in his 6th season. Robinson was 0.481 at the exact same spot in his 6th season. In other words, Tinkle's teams are winning roughly 49 games out of every 100 played while Robinson's teams won roughly 48 games out of every 100 played. A 1 win difference. That's a wash.
How about fan interest? Tinkle's team's are drawing an average 217 more fans per game than Robinson's teams across 6 seasons. That's despite season ticket sales incentives that were not given during the Robinson era.
Tinkle did have a NCAA appearance - a big accomplishment. He also recorded the only 5-win season in the past 100 years of Beaver basketball - the lowest win total of the period. That season set a record for the lowest winning percentage in OSU history at 0.156. The good is offset by the bad again here.
Some will tell you that the bad season wasn't his fault. But I'll tell you that every coach has injuries or lost recruits - and in the end it counts against the coach.
But not with Teflon Tinkle.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Direct Appeal
We need to contact AD Barnes Jan 25, 2020 at 5:33pm baseba1111, damnstraight, and 8 more like this
Post by OSUprof on Jan 25, 2020 at 5:33pm
Mr. Barnes:
It's time that you work your magic again. You were able to convince Gary Andersen to walk away from the remainder of his contract at a time when the football program was in freefall. This permitted Andersen to rehab himself and start over elsewhere. But this action also allowed OSU to start anew without the financial burden of contract obligations.
The men's basketball program is in freefall right now and is in need of a reset. It would be best for all parties if you could convince Coach Tinkle to walk away from his remaining contract. He is out of his element at OSU and might be better suited as coach elsewhere. I don't need to tell you what that action would do for OSU in setting up the men's basketball program for a fresh start.
An OSU fan. If only we had listened!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hold the opinions expressed in your post as highly as I held your original four posts. But we get it. The sky is falling.
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Post by easyheat on Feb 18, 2022 23:01:07 GMT -8
Wayne Tinkle is a likeable guy, considerate, classy and has represented OSU well during his time here. Wayne Tinkle was a good player during his time at Montana and while playing in Europe. Wayne Tinkle is not a PAC-12 basketball coach. Wayne Tinkle is not a succesful recruiter. Wayne Tinkle places staff loyalty above staff competency. Wayne Tinkle does not vett his prospective players. He doesn't understand the term "fit", He doesn't understand that selfishness is not conducive to building but rather, destroying a team. Wayne Tinkle does not understand that you recruit athletes that want to be coached and play team basketball. Wayne Tinkle Runs an archaic offense - 4 guys spotting up for 3's while watching a 45 second individual dribbling exhibition. An antiquated version of "penetrate and pitch". Spend a week with Calipari. Wayne Tinkle's teams play sloppy and inconsistent defense. Defense is about effort. Selfish players are not interested. Wayne Tinkle has no idea about the importance of shot selection. "If you touch it, you can shoot it" is not the road to high shooting percentages. Shot discipline is fundamental to offensive production. Wayne tinkle has recruited a group of Portal and JC transfers without consideration of badly needed organization and structure.
FWIW
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Post by beavheart on Feb 19, 2022 10:47:48 GMT -8
I'm just hoping we can hold on to Glenn Taylor Jr. He is the only well rounded player I see on this team. Perhaps Davis as well if he could shoot from outside. Rand has potential. Everyone else is a project to one degree or another. Including, apparently, Tinkle himself.
We have great athletes that are average to poor basketball players, and low BBall IQ. We have a great shooter, who is deficient in every other way. We have a true PG who can't shoot very well. We have a big who has good moves around the basket, but is too slow to play D or remain consistent on offense. We have a transfer big that we desperately needed this year, and OF COURSE he is caught up in some academic technicality. And, no one seems to know how to play together.
I like Tinkle. Wish he could have maintained the success from last year whatsoever. I am completely dismayed by what is happening. We are a team of transients. A ship without a rudder. And now, as the cherry on top, injuries are piling up for a team that can afford none.
After all these years of losing it just starts to feel like a curse. Like the harder we try the further we fall. Quicksand can only hope to compare to the OSU basketball program. The prospect of yet another coach, starting over again... again, just feels like putting lipstick on a pig. SOMETHING bigger is wrong here. Until we can figure out what that is I think rifling through coaches is an exercise in futility and will only serve to ruin more careers and keep us locked in a long, painful cycle of mediocrity.
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Post by speakthetruth on Feb 19, 2022 10:53:34 GMT -8
Bottom line when you as a coach can't recruit you get what is left,
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Post by korculabeav on Feb 19, 2022 18:06:03 GMT -8
When your recruiting class following an Elite 8 run is poo, kinda tells U something.
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 19, 2022 18:19:04 GMT -8
I'm just hoping we can hold on to Glenn Taylor Jr. He is the only well rounded player I see on this team. Perhaps Davis as well if he could shoot from outside. Rand has potential. Everyone else is a project to one degree or another. Including, apparently, Tinkle himself. We have great athletes that are average to poor basketball players, and low BBall IQ. We have a great shooter, who is deficient in every other way. We have a true PG who can't shoot very well. We have a big who has good moves around the basket, but is too slow to play D or remain consistent on offense. We have a transfer big that we desperately needed this year, and OF COURSE he is caught up in some academic technicality. And, no one seems to know how to play together. I like Tinkle. Wish he could have maintained the success from last year whatsoever. I am completely dismayed by what is happening. We are a team of transients. A ship without a rudder. And now, as the cherry on top, injuries are piling up for a team that can afford none. After all these years of losing it just starts to feel like a curse. Like the harder we try the further we fall. Quicksand can only hope to compare to the OSU basketball program. The prospect of yet another coach, starting over again... again, just feels like putting lipstick on a pig. SOMETHING bigger is wrong here. Until we can figure out what that is I think rifling through coaches is an exercise in futility and will only serve to ruin more careers and keep us locked in a long, painful cycle of mediocrity. Totally agree about Taylor Jr.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 19, 2022 18:28:46 GMT -8
I'm just hoping we can hold on to Glenn Taylor Jr. He is the only well rounded player I see on this team. Perhaps Davis as well if he could shoot from outside. Rand has potential. Everyone else is a project to one degree or another. Including, apparently, Tinkle himself. We have great athletes that are average to poor basketball players, and low BBall IQ. We have a great shooter, who is deficient in every other way. We have a true PG who can't shoot very well. We have a big who has good moves around the basket, but is too slow to play D or remain consistent on offense. We have a transfer big that we desperately needed this year, and OF COURSE he is caught up in some academic technicality. And, no one seems to know how to play together. I like Tinkle. Wish he could have maintained the success from last year whatsoever. I am completely dismayed by what is happening. We are a team of transients. A ship without a rudder. And now, as the cherry on top, injuries are piling up for a team that can afford none. After all these years of losing it just starts to feel like a curse. Like the harder we try the further we fall. Quicksand can only hope to compare to the OSU basketball program. The prospect of yet another coach, starting over again... again, just feels like putting lipstick on a pig. SOMETHING bigger is wrong here. Until we can figure out what that is I think rifling through coaches is an exercise in futility and will only serve to ruin more careers and keep us locked in a long, painful cycle of mediocrity. Totally agree about Taylor Jr. Would like to see Taylor, Rand, Davis. Lucas, Andela and perhaps Johnson return. The rest need to go.
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Post by alwaysorange on Feb 19, 2022 18:46:12 GMT -8
Totally agree about Taylor Jr. Would like to see Taylor, Rand, Davis. Lucas, Andela and perhaps Johnson return. The rest need to go. I agree with you Tinkle needs to be the first to go.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 19, 2022 18:47:18 GMT -8
Would like to see Taylor, Rand, Davis. Lucas, Andela and perhaps Johnson return. The rest need to go. I agree with you Tinkle needs to be the first to go. Well he’s not, so save your health. Your act is old.
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Post by alwaysorange on Feb 19, 2022 18:50:29 GMT -8
I agree with you Tinkle needs to be the first to go. Well he’s not, so save your health. Your act is old. Why do you have a love affair with tinkle? Great as a coach be made it to the elite 8. His record before that and after that sucked and sucks.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 19, 2022 18:54:00 GMT -8
Well he’s not, so save your health. Your act is old. Why do you have a love affair with tinkle? Great as a coach be made it to the elite 8. His record before that and after that sucked and sucks. I don’t. But he’s not getting fired this year and I’m worried about your mental health.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 19, 2022 20:58:47 GMT -8
Totally agree about Taylor Jr. Would like to see Taylor, Rand, Davis. Lucas, Andela and perhaps Johnson return. The rest need to go. I would throw Hunt in with that group. Regardless of how he played this year before stepping away he is a guy who can contribute, at the very least as a guy to back-up Davis.
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