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Post by chinmusic on Feb 15, 2022 14:40:14 GMT -8
It's not about the past, it's all about the "here and now".
Oregon State Baseball is an elite college program with a well deserved reputation of player development. Oregon State recruits well and they are highly sucessful at developing their athletes - that is attractive to prospects and their families.
The Beavers have a deep roster, competition is fierce. On avearge, Players spend time in the system before seeing the field. I wouldn't expect to see OSU returning too many starters, and you see that this year. Dukart, Forrester, Melton and Meckler would be it. Gretler has been seasoning as a part time player, Ditto that on Boyd. Bazzana is an exceptional freshman, and Logan has battled injuries. OSU's program is usually a "you wait for your turn" starting opportunity.
The Beaver team taking the field against New Mexico is our best 9 at this moment. Changes may occur, backups will play and everyone will contribute to a team effort. Last year's PT, stats and performances are indicators but the evaluations taking place last fall and over the past few weeks are the determing factors in crafting this lineup. How much they payed last year isn't all that important - how are they playing here and now? In 2017 our catcher hit .234/ .322/ .306 but in the "here and now" of 2018, he hit .408/ .505/ .628 and became a generational player. In 2020, Kyler McMahan led the PAC-12, hitting .439/ .492/ .544. In 2021, he hit .211/ .278/ .316 ..."Here and Now"!
Claunch had a good career here. He had some good hitting streaks but had a high % of strike outs. Defensively, a good arm but struggled to catch the baseball. Had he been able to achieve an average grade defensively with the scouts (50-55), he would have been drafted two years ago. Logan will not be a drop-off.
As for question marks? That is a given for every team playing college baseball this season.
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Post by chinmusic on Feb 15, 2022 14:43:51 GMT -8
It's not about the past, it's all about the "here and now".
Oregon State Baseball is an elite college program with a well deserved reputation of player development. Oregon State recruits well and they are highly sucessful at developing their athletes - that is attractive to prospects and their families.
The Beavers have a deep roster, competition is fierce. On avearge, Players spend time in the system before seeing the field. I wouldn't expect to see OSU returning too many starters, and you see that this year. Dukart, Forrester, Melton and Meckler would be it. Gretler has been seasoning as a part time player, Ditto that on Boyd. Bazzana is an exceptional freshman, and Logan has battled injuries. OSU's program is usually a "you wait for your turn" starting opportunity.
The Beaver team taking the field against New Mexico is our best 9 at this moment. Changes may occur, backups will play and everyone will contribute to a team effort. Last year's PT, stats and performances are indicators but the evaluations taking place last fall and over the past few weeks are the determing factors in crafting this lineup. How much they payed last year isn't all that important - how are they playing here and now? In 2017 our catcher hit .234/ .322/ .306 but in the "here and now" of 2018, he hit .408/ .505/ .628 and became a generational player. In 2020, Kyler McMahan led the PAC-12, hitting .439/ .492/ .544. In 2021, he hit .211/ .278/ .316 ..."Here and Now"!
Claunch had a good career here. He had some good hitting streaks but had a high % of strike outs. Defensively, a good arm but struggled to catch the baseball. Had he been able to achieve an average grade defensively with the scouts (50-55), he would have been drafted two years ago. Logan will not be a drop-off.
As for question marks? That is a given for every team playing college baseball this season.
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 15, 2022 14:59:36 GMT -8
I'll only counter...
There is no "here and now". Past results are who certain players are until... well they aren't. And, that doesn't happen before one game has been played. Nor after a dozen.
Also, elite and player development, reputation and actual development was based on the last staff. This staff hasn't had the results or time to equal those lofty standards.
Only time will tell.
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Post by justdamwin on Feb 15, 2022 17:26:44 GMT -8
I do not see this Beaver team lacking offense. Too many returning bats, power in the right spots, speed on the paths. and some grinders. It’s a long way through this lineup. I don’t see anyone going 5 against the Beavs early. I’m conference and mid-season on, we may see some. There’s four guys that should be .900 or better OPS, maybe even 5 and a couple who may end over 1. The team averse OPS should be high, sign of a good offense. Other than catcher which is an unknown, there should be a quality hitter available at every spot. My biggest hope offensively is that this team does not take many 3 or 4 pitch Ks. Claunch, Casey and Ober especially could really be easy outs. Canham also doesn’t seem to employ, run up pitch counts offenses. A ton of question marks. "Should" is a big maybe! I don't think we have a returner that played in all 30 Pac12 games. Only two that played in 20-25+ hit .300+. Plus Claunch was clutch in conference play. He's a huge loss at this stage without seeing how others end up performing. And all these great arms we expect to face are really just speculation also. That’s the game right now, rankings, polls, pre-season banter. I do not care about a players batting average. Gretler had a better OPS than Claunch. Troy was not an elite hitter. So the fact no player started the entire season, on a pretty good baseball team, is a testament to depth? Or lack of talent? Or health? |
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Post by chinmusic on Feb 15, 2022 18:36:39 GMT -8
You have a simple choice.
After an extensive fall practice, meetings, winter conditioning where the coaches are actually working the players, followed by 3 weeks of spring practice prior to launcing your season, I would hope our staff has a feel for the players preparation, skills and attitude in the here and now. I suspect that is what will determine our lieup on Friday.
Your alternative suggests our coaches ignore the above and start a lineup based upon past results that define who the players are .... "until they aren't. With respect, that logic sounds a bit convoluted.
I never differentiated coaching staffs when mentioning player development. Here is what I said;
"Oregon State Baseball is an elite college program with a well deserved reputation of player development. Oregon State recruits well and they are highly sucessful at developing their athletes - that is attractive to prospects and their families"
I think Oregon State baseball is in very good hands. I would be upset if it wasn't. I think highly of this young coaching staff. They are dedicated to teaching the game, good with their players and they know the game. And they are Beavers to the bone.
I don't need to wait and see anything.Great kids and excellent people involved with this program.
How do ya like them apples, Thomas?
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Post by irimi on Feb 16, 2022 6:54:00 GMT -8
I'll only counter... There is no "here and now". Past results are who certain players are until... well they aren't. And, that doesn't happen before one game has been played. Nor after a dozen. Also, elite and player development, reputation and actual development was based on the last staff. This staff hasn't had the results or time to equal those lofty standards. Only time will tell. No here and now? Try telling that to the 2017 team in 2018. In baseball, that’s all there is. I’d say Forrester was a nice addition to the team last year, perhaps proving that we are still drawing talented kids and developing them into ballplayers. Plus, as a true freshman, maybe history isn’t such a big deal. |
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 16, 2022 7:49:12 GMT -8
I'll only counter... There is no "here and now". Past results are who certain players are until... well they aren't. And, that doesn't happen before one game has been played. Nor after a dozen. Also, elite and player development, reputation and actual development was based on the last staff. This staff hasn't had the results or time to equal those lofty standards. Only time will tell. No here and now? Try telling that to the 2017 team in 2018. In baseball, that’s all there is. I’d say Forrester was a nice addition to the team last year, perhaps proving that we are still drawing talented kids and developing them into ballplayers. Plus, as a true freshman, maybe history isn’t such a big deal. What in the world does 2017/2018 have to do with 2022 before a single game is played? Yep zero. The "here and now" of the current roster is all speculation. The players past/history is exactly what that speculation is drawn from. My guess, some players will exceed their past performances and others will regress. How many are in the former category will determine OSU's success. Kinda like every team in every sport. Adding, there was no mention that the current staff couldn't garage draw talent. The point being the current reputation is not based on the current staff. They haven't had the time or consistent success to equal that legacy. |
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Post by irimi on Feb 16, 2022 8:20:00 GMT -8
No here and now? Try telling that to the 2017 team in 2018. In baseball, that’s all there is. I’d say Forrester was a nice addition to the team last year, perhaps proving that we are still drawing talented kids and developing them into ballplayers. Plus, as a true freshman, maybe history isn’t such a big deal. What in the world does 2017/2018 have to do with 2022 before a single game is played? Yep zero. The "here and now" of the current roster is all speculation. The players past/history is exactly what that speculation is drawn from. My guess, some players will exceed their past performances and others will regress. How many are in the former category will determine OSU's success. Kinda like every team in every sport. Adding, there was no mention that the current staff couldn't garage draw talent. The point being the current reputation is not based on the current staff. They haven't had the time or consistent success to equal that legacy. Your contention was that the here and now is not relevant. I suppose we have differing ideas of what "here and now" is supposed to mean because you are now talking about "speculation." If you meant "speculation," you probably should have used that word for it is far more precise than "here and now." In that case, you are not wrong. Speculation is speculation, which is what makes sports so entertaining. One can speculate all he wants but still end up being wrong. Case in point, Beaver basketball last year and this. That said, if we do not speculate and only resign to watch the game, then what's the point of having a sports board, radio program, ESPN, or the ubiquitous sports magazines? I, for one, think chinmusic gives us great analysis of players and the team. I rely upon his comments because I don't have time to follow the team closely in the off-season, and I like to read reviews to get me excited for the season to come. Perhaps they are written wearing orange tinted glasses, but we're on a Beaver sports board for crying out loud. |
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Post by chinmusic on Feb 16, 2022 8:27:58 GMT -8
Our coaches have been working with these players daily for 7 months. I sure hope they know enough about their players and this team to have some level of confidence in picking their starting lineup on Friday.
Putting nine guys on the field based upon a whole bunch of "speculation" isn't my idea of good coaching.
What an inane idea.
Good grief, Charlie Brown.
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Post by rgeorge on Feb 16, 2022 10:39:08 GMT -8
"A ton of question marks. "Should" is a big maybe!
I don't think we have a returner that played in all 30 Pac12 games. Only two that played in 20-25+ hit .300+. Plus Claunch was clutch in conference play. He's a huge loss at this stage without seeing how others end up performing."
Above is the initial post that started this supposed conversation. Maybe not so great at analyzing posts as info gleaned straight from websites!?
So both posters "discussing"/demeaning a pretty straight forward concept seem to have a tough time with comprehension and like to twist (still at a loss for the Thomas and 2017/2018 references?) details to attempt make a your point. WTF it is??
Where did anyone mention:
-current staff couldn't draw talent?
-coaches didn't work with or know the potential of these players?
-choosing a lineup on pure speculation?
-that analysis given wasn't helpful and saves time?
-that message boards weren't/wasn't ok for speculating?
Hey Chuck. Or is it Thomas? Search... where did any of my comment imply such nonsense. Yeah "inane" is right!
Have any other nonsense incorrectly extrapolated from a basic fact?
No player has played an inning this season. Hence, there is no here and now. Your definition of "speculation" maybe VERY narrow, but you don't think this staff doesn't go through their "data" and speculates on potential lineups, matchups, and are consistently updating that info? That is when the "here and now" comes into play. Coaches have actual game performances to help them solidify and adjust. Weird, how could this or any staff ever recruit is only the "here and now" was considered... since HS players have zero college data?
Stating there is ONLY the here and now is not correct. As you so astutely mentioned each player has a "past", which includes the last 7 months. Using past game experiences/production, a body of Fall/Spring practices coaches then are making their best guess at who'll excel. Pretty simple concept that, as mentioned, is repeated by every staff of every team.
Good grief is right!
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Post by irimi on Feb 16, 2022 14:55:45 GMT -8
"A ton of question marks. "Should" is a big maybe! I don't think we have a returner that played in all 30 Pac12 games. Only two that played in 20-25+ hit .300+. Plus Claunch was clutch in conference play. He's a huge loss at this stage without seeing how others end up performing." Above is the initial post that started this supposed conversation. Maybe not so great at analyzing posts as info gleaned straight from websites!? So both posters "discussing"/demeaning a pretty straight forward concept seem to have a tough time with comprehension and like to twist (still at a loss for the Thomas and 2017/2018 references?) details to attempt make a your point. WTF it is?? Where did anyone mention: -current staff couldn't draw talent? -coaches didn't work with or know the potential of these players? -choosing a lineup on pure speculation? -that analysis given wasn't helpful and saves time? -that message boards weren't/wasn't ok for speculating? Hey Chuck. Or is it Thomas? Search... where did any of my comment imply such nonsense. Yeah "inane" is right! Have any other nonsense incorrectly extrapolated from a basic fact? No player has played an inning this season. Hence, there is no here and now. Your definition of "speculation" maybe VERY narrow, but you don't think this staff doesn't go through their "data" and speculates on potential lineups, matchups, and are consistently updating that info? That is when the "here and now" comes into play. Coaches have actual game performances to help them solidify and adjust. Weird, how could this or any staff ever recruit is only the "here and now" was considered... since HS players have zero college data? Stating there is ONLY the here and now is not correct. As you so astutely mentioned each player has a "past", which includes the last 7 months. Using past game experiences/production, a body of Fall/Spring practices coaches then are making their best guess at who'll excel. Pretty simple concept that, as mentioned, is repeated by every staff of every team. Good grief is right! You're saying that there is no way to predict what will happen this season because - we haven't played a game yet;
- even 15 games won't be a good assessment;
- the coaching staff hasn't proven itself yet.
Fine. That's one view. It isn't necessarily useful, though. What good is it to tell fans "Wait until midseason and then I'll tell you how the team will do"? Some of us like to predict what things will look like. Surely, you can understand that. What's the point in replying at all? Do you want us all to be a bunch of curmudgeonly old farts without hopes or dreams? |
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Post by zeroposter on Feb 18, 2022 9:04:16 GMT -8
Just talked with the grandparents of Gabe Hughes. Hughes is concentrating on pitching and doing away with his position playing. Marco Gonzalez of the Mariners advised him to just go with the pitching.
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