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Post by beavaristotle on Jan 29, 2022 11:52:46 GMT -8
Can argue whether he was the greatest QB of all time but no argument on being the greatest winner of all time.
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Post by EmeraldEmpire on Jan 29, 2022 12:08:05 GMT -8
 Dang I was starting to think he was really going to push playing until he was 50 considering how good of shape he is still in at 43 ... but I guess his wife Gisele finally got into his ear enough to hang up the cleats lol Hard to argue with that resume there though it will be a while before any QB challenges that record I bet |
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Post by irimi on Jan 29, 2022 14:23:29 GMT -8
Good for him….and the league. It will be interesting to see what Gronk does.
For me, there are no GOAT in sports because the game changes so much from era to era. But he certainly was a great one.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 29, 2022 18:18:29 GMT -8
Tom Brady has very much NOT announced his retirement. Some media organization (ESPN) felt the need to "get the scoop" and run a story based on "sources". So much for letting Tom have his moment if or when he does decide to retire and wants to announce it to the world himself. So what. He’s retiring. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 29, 2022 20:01:23 GMT -8
Dang I was starting to think he was really going to push playing until he was 50 considering how good of shape he is still in at 43 ... but I guess his wife Gisele finally got into his ear enough to hang up the cleats lol Hard to argue with that resume there though it will be a while before any QB challenges that record I bet Cleveland Browns QB Otto Graham won seven championships and played in the championship game in 10 consecutive years, from 1946-55. Green Bay QB Bart Starr played in six championship games in an 8-year period (1960-67) and won five of them. Other QBs have been winners like Brady. Not many, but a few. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 29, 2022 20:42:39 GMT -8
Dang I was starting to think he was really going to push playing until he was 50 considering how good of shape he is still in at 43 ... but I guess his wife Gisele finally got into his ear enough to hang up the cleats lol Hard to argue with that resume there though it will be a while before any QB challenges that record I bet Tom Brady 3x All-Pro. Otto Graham 7x All-Pro Peyton Manning 7x All-Pro Johnny Unitas 5x All-Pro Aaron Rodgers 4x All-Pro (Incomplete list, but I just wanted to throw up some quarterbacks, who were better in their time.) I don't even think that Tom Brady was ever the greatest quarterback of his time, much less the greatest of all time. He was usually phenomenal in the playoffs. But he also had his clunkers. The last Jets' playoff win? 2011 in Foxboro. Mark Sanchez outplayed Tom Brady fresh off of Brady's second First Team All-Pro selection. Meh. Great player, who played with a great tight end with great coaches. It is easy to argue with the resume, especially in the regular season. Maybe greatest playoff quarterback ever? I might agree with that. I think that that is more defensible. |
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Post by rgeorge on Jan 29, 2022 21:33:56 GMT -8
Please...no one respond! Don't you know, if you have a great coach and TE pretty much any 6th rd pick could win more games, throw for more yards and TDs than anyone in NFL history.
Some takes just deserve a head shake and a short snicker.
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Post by kersting13 on Jan 30, 2022 0:33:12 GMT -8
Please...no one respond! Don't you know, if you have a great coach and TE pretty much any 6th rd pick could win more games, throw for more yards and TDs than anyone in NFL history. Some takes just deserve a head shake and a short snicker. Sounds like you're giving him bonus points for being a 6th rounder? No one is going to doubt Tom Brady is a first ballot HOFer, or that he doesn't belong on an NFL Mt Rushmore. Guy did several things that no one else has done. I do think it would be fair to argue that someone like Drew Brees could/would have been just as successful if they were put in the same circumstance, or that Brady might have toiled as a back-up for years, or never even gotten the chance to start if Drew Bledsoe hadn't been injured. Being the All-time leader in practically every statistical category are lofty enough credentials, but perhaps the most impressive thing Brady has done is playing at such a high level through his age 44 season. THAT is truly unprecedented for non-kickers. I believe the next oldest NFL player is 40-year-old Andrew Whitworth, who is also unprecedented in playing to that age as an OT. |
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Post by irimi on Jan 30, 2022 9:16:06 GMT -8
Please...no one respond! Don't you know, if you have a great coach and TE pretty much any 6th rd pick could win more games, throw for more yards and TDs than anyone in NFL history. Some takes just deserve a head shake and a short snicker. Sounds like you're giving him bonus points for being a 6th rounder? No one is going to doubt Tom Brady is a first ballot HOFer, or that he doesn't belong on an NFL Mt Rushmore. Guy did several things that no one else has done. I do think it would be fair to argue that someone like Drew Brees could/would have been just as successful if they were put in the same circumstance, or that Brady might have toiled as a back-up for years, or never even gotten the chance to start if Drew Bledsoe hadn't been injured. Being the All-time leader in practically every statistical category are lofty enough credentials, but perhaps the most impressive thing Brady has done is playing at such a high level through his age 44 season. THAT is truly unprecedented for non-kickers. I believe the next oldest NFL player is 40-year-old Andrew Whitworth, who is also unprecedented in playing to that age as an OT. About your Drew Brees hypothetical….You have a fair point until you think about what Brady did with crappy Tampa Bay. To leave the Pats and then elevate Tampa Bay enough to win it all was insane. And he nearly pulled it off again this year. In his “twilight” years. I’m not a Brady fan, but I have to respect his accomplishments. I only balk at the GOAT title because of how much protection quarterbacks get in this day and age and how much physical science (and chemistry) has affected the conditioning of players. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 30, 2022 10:17:22 GMT -8
Brady is a great QB, not question. He can't be compared to Unitas, et all, simply because they played in different eras, under completely different sets of rules.
It's amazing he played until 44, but I don't think he would have lasted anywhere near that long playing in the era of Unitas, et all, when defenders could (and often did) wipe out QBs with hits that would result in ejection in today's game, in which quarterbacks are untouchable.
One must also consider the liberalized holding rules for offensive linemen, and the defensive rules that have totally eliminated bump-and-run and the other physical coverages that severely restricted the free movement of wide receivers. Plus, Unitas, etc., did not compile multiple 300- and 400-yard passing games because they just didn't throw as much back then.
Brady is probably the most accomplished QB of the modern era. He also had a lot of luck along the way. Take away the bogus tuck rule, the Seahawks unbelievably bad play call and Atlanta's classic choke job and his legacy is somewhat different.
From everything I have ever read, he was an outstanding teammate. That says more about him to me than his rings.
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Post by kersting13 on Jan 30, 2022 23:56:33 GMT -8
Sounds like you're giving him bonus points for being a 6th rounder? No one is going to doubt Tom Brady is a first ballot HOFer, or that he doesn't belong on an NFL Mt Rushmore. Guy did several things that no one else has done. I do think it would be fair to argue that someone like Drew Brees could/would have been just as successful if they were put in the same circumstance, or that Brady might have toiled as a back-up for years, or never even gotten the chance to start if Drew Bledsoe hadn't been injured. Being the All-time leader in practically every statistical category are lofty enough credentials, but perhaps the most impressive thing Brady has done is playing at such a high level through his age 44 season. THAT is truly unprecedented for non-kickers. I believe the next oldest NFL player is 40-year-old Andrew Whitworth, who is also unprecedented in playing to that age as an OT. About your Drew Brees hypothetical….You have a fair point until you think about what Brady did with crappy Tampa Bay. To leave the Pats and then elevate Tampa Bay enough to win it all was insane. And he nearly pulled it off again this year. In his “twilight” years. I’m not a Brady fan, but I have to respect his accomplishments. I only balk at the GOAT title because of how much protection quarterbacks get in this day and age and how much physical science (and chemistry) has affected the conditioning of players. Top tier QBs can do that. I’m only arguing that pairing up with Belichick was fortuitous, and it’s *possible* other dudes could have done as well, or better(?) in the same situation. Of course we KNOW Tom did it, and he deserves all credit for that. |
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Post by irimi on Jan 31, 2022 7:04:43 GMT -8
About your Drew Brees hypothetical….You have a fair point until you think about what Brady did with crappy Tampa Bay. To leave the Pats and then elevate Tampa Bay enough to win it all was insane. And he nearly pulled it off again this year. In his “twilight” years. I’m not a Brady fan, but I have to respect his accomplishments. I only balk at the GOAT title because of how much protection quarterbacks get in this day and age and how much physical science (and chemistry) has affected the conditioning of players. Top tier QBs can do that. I’m only arguing that pairing up with Belichick was fortuitous, and it’s *possible* other dudes could have done as well, or better(?) in the same situation. Of course we KNOW Tom did it, and he deserves all credit for that. Cam Newton? According to your theory, he should’ve been a surefire winner. But the Pats didn’t even make the playoffs, whereas Brady took Tampa Bay (who?) to the superbowl and won it all. |
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Post by kersting13 on Jan 31, 2022 14:51:12 GMT -8
Top tier QBs can do that. I’m only arguing that pairing up with Belichick was fortuitous, and it’s *possible* other dudes could have done as well, or better(?) in the same situation. Of course we KNOW Tom did it, and he deserves all credit for that. Cam Newton? According to your theory, he should’ve been a surefire winner. But the Pats didn’t even make the playoffs, whereas Brady took Tampa Bay (who?) to the superbowl and won it all. If Cam Newton meets your definition of a top tier QB, we have differing definitions. |
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Post by irimi on Jan 31, 2022 22:37:48 GMT -8
Cam Newton? According to your theory, he should’ve been a surefire winner. But the Pats didn’t even make the playoffs, whereas Brady took Tampa Bay (who?) to the superbowl and won it all. If Cam Newton meets your definition of a top tier QB, we have differing definitions. You have to admit that Brady was more of a nobody when he took the reins, yet you argue that Billichick made him great. So why didn't Billichick work his magic on Cam? |
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Post by oldbeav on Feb 1, 2022 7:24:11 GMT -8
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