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Post by jdogge on Jul 6, 2017 11:30:15 GMT -8
Besides Morrison and Ice, who did we lose of significance? [Eckert graduated] Neither Hamilton or Pomeroy did much. King didn't get drafted. True, Drew is probably gone for next year. But, Tweedt and Martinek should be healed completely. So where is the step down? You answered your own question. You can't afford to lose much of any significance... and those three were hugely important... when you're a struggling team on and off (if you take players comments and interpret them as some did) the field and are, by and large, depending on unproven or underperforming pitchers. Its really not a negative "brush" of this team. For the upcoming season to be more than just optimistically hopeful, last season had to show more growth and not have the set back of big time injuries, with knowledge we were also going to lose some talent. Is there talent coming in? I'm sure there is. Have they ever competed versus D1 talent up and down a lineup? Nope. Have they gone thru the rigors of college academics/transitions, Fall ball, conditioning, and month or more longer season with double the games? Nope. Could some young men shine? Yep. But, in our case from where were left off and who we lost, it's going to take more guys than can be reasonably expected. Personally I was hoping for a couple late JC or D1 transfer arms with experience. I guess someone put your wet rag in the dryer. |
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Post by beavermd on Jul 6, 2017 11:36:24 GMT -8
You answered your own question. You can't afford to lose much of any significance... and those three were hugely important... when you're a struggling team on and off (if you take players comments and interpret them as some did) the field and are, by and large, depending on unproven or underperforming pitchers. Its really not a negative "brush" of this team. For the upcoming season to be more than just optimistically hopeful, last season had to show more growth and not have the set back of big time injuries, with knowledge we were also going to lose some talent. Is there talent coming in? I'm sure there is. Have they ever competed versus D1 talent up and down a lineup? Nope. Have they gone thru the rigors of college academics/transitions, Fall ball, conditioning, and month or more longer season with double the games? Nope. Could some young men shine? Yep. But, in our case from where were left off and who we lost, it's going to take more guys than can be reasonably expected. Personally I was hoping for a couple late JC or D1 transfer arms with experience. I guess someone put your wet rag in the dryer. I think you just torched it. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 6, 2017 11:40:57 GMT -8
As of now all it does is make us younger not better! Unless we have several guys step up beyond what they have ever done in an OSU uniform so far... offensively and defensively... AND we get at least (3) pitchers that do the same... we are looking at a long season. There are a couple that could pleasantly surprise. But, there is tons of improvement that needs to happen before February. We were not performing at a high level and LOST very key pieces and leadership. July 2016 outlooks were a bit bleak. I'll be darned if the team, 11 months later, didn't find a way to break a W-L record! I think that the truth of it was that this team was great in 2016 before losing Rasmussen. By the end of the season, Oregon State was just figuring out how to win consistently without him. The West Coast in general, and the Pac-12 in particular, was wildly underrated in 2016 (in large part to Utah doing so well in conference), which resulted in a very unjustifiable snub. As stated by several others in other earlier threads in 2016, if that Beaver team had received the invite that they earned, Oregon State could have easily been a College World Series team. Instead, the team got eight months off to stew on the slight. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 6, 2017 12:11:11 GMT -8
July 2016 outlooks were a bit bleak. I'll be darned if the team, 11 months later, didn't find a way to break a W-L record! O ye of little faith and faint orange glasses  Has less to do with "faith" and goggles than realistic baseball expectations and a season no one could have predicted/never will happen again and is the most extreme of outliers. Claiming anything close to the successes OSU had now is the "best" of 20/20 hindsight fandom. |
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Post by ricke71 on Jul 6, 2017 12:26:04 GMT -8
As of now all it does is make us younger not better! Unless we have several guys step up beyond what they have ever done in an OSU uniform so far... offensively and defensively... AND we get at least (3) pitchers that do the same... we are looking at a long season. LONG Season DID, in fact, occur! Right up until a few days before the National Championship was decided. Looking forward to similar in 2018. Add 1 or 2 of the coaching brain trusts' 'patented' Freshman contributors - whoa...Lookout! |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 6, 2017 12:54:44 GMT -8
As of now all it does is make us younger not better! Unless we have several guys step up beyond what they have ever done in an OSU uniform so far... offensively and defensively... AND we get at least (3) pitchers that do the same... we are looking at a long season. LONG Season DID, in fact, occur! Right up until a few days before the National Championship was decided. Looking forward to similar in 2018. Add 1 or 2 of the coaching brain trusts' 'patented' Freshman contributors - whoa...Lookout! Because we DID get (3) pitchers and a offense and defense that stepped up beyond what they had ever done in an OSU uniform. The problem with 2018, expectations need to be modified as no one can expect all three components to again perform at that level. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 6, 2017 13:09:25 GMT -8
O ye of little faith and faint orange glasses Has less to do with "faith" and goggles than realistic baseball expectations and a season no one could have predicted/never will happen again and is the most extreme of outliers. Claiming anything close to the successes OSU had now is the "best" of 20/20 hindsight fandom. Oregon State was projected to be a top 5 team and win the Pac-12 in 2016 and were two years removed from being the #1 team in NCAA and three years removed from being the de facto #1 team in the country before losing a pair to a Mississippi State team playing out of their minds. The Beavers had the talent. The Beavers started 16-2, just a game off of Oregon State's 2017 start. Then, Rasmussen went down at an inopportune time, which burned up pitchers and resulted in a 1-4 stretch. The Beavers rebounded to beat the Huskies at home, but the next road trip was a loss to the cellar-dwelling Cougars. Oregon State beat Utah and Stanford in consecutive weekends and then got swept by an Arizona team that finished second in the country. A mid-week neutral loss to Portland was followed by a home loss to Oregon, a 1-6 stretch that ultimately doomed Oregon State. Outside of the two bad stretches, Oregon State went 33-9. Minnesota, who Oregon State beat at a neutral site, got in over Oregon State with a worse record and lower RPI as a two-seed. Oregon State swept Arizona State and finished ahead of the Sun Devils in the conference, but Arizona State was awarded a two-seed, as well. Oregon State was young in 2016 but very talented, and almost everyone noted that. Baseball America had Oregon State in as one of their Eight for Omaha before you basically indicated that Baseball America was wrong and in a big way. Baseba11, a lot of the time, you are dead on in baseball, but you must admit that you missed the good run in 2017. Everyone else was saying that the Beavers would be greatly improved in 2017, and they were. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 6, 2017 14:04:18 GMT -8
Has less to do with "faith" and goggles than realistic baseball expectations and a season no one could have predicted/never will happen again and is the most extreme of outliers. Claiming anything close to the successes OSU had now is the "best" of 20/20 hindsight fandom. Oregon State was projected to be a top 5 team and win the Pac-12 in 2016 and were two years removed from being the #1 team in NCAA and three years removed from being the de facto #1 team in the country before losing a pair to a Mississippi State team playing out of their minds. The Beavers had the talent. The Beavers started 16-2, just a game off of Oregon State's 2017 start. Then, Rasmussen went down at an inopportune time, which burned up pitchers and resulted in a 1-4 stretch. The Beavers rebounded to beat the Huskies at home, but the next road trip was a loss to the cellar-dwelling Cougars. Oregon State beat Utah and Stanford in consecutive weekends and then got swept by an Arizona team that finished second in the country. A mid-week neutral loss to Portland was followed by a home loss to Oregon, a 1-6 stretch that ultimately doomed Oregon State. Outside of the two bad stretches, Oregon State went 33-9. Minnesota, who Oregon State beat at a neutral site, got in over Oregon State with a worse record and lower RPI as a two-seed. Oregon State swept Arizona State and finished ahead of the Sun Devils in the conference, but Arizona State was awarded a two-seed, as well. Oregon State was young in 2016 but very talented, and almost everyone noted that. Baseball America had Oregon State in as one of their Eight for Omaha before you basically indicated that Baseball America was wrong and in a big way. Baseba11, a lot of the time, you are dead on in baseball, but you must admit that you missed the good run in 2017. Everyone else was saying that the Beavers would be greatly improved in 2017, and they were. LOL... you don't "miss" on 56-6... it was the best of all possible circumstances. So, in essence everyone missed. Greatly improved was not what happened in 2017. A once-in-a-lifetime season happened that required EVERY area of team play to not improve, but be outstanding. So, with regard to all the experts, they were "wrong" too... as no one expected what happened to the level in which it did. And... could never be expected to happen again. Again... the previous season's rebuff had zero to do with the expectations of this team. We had some talent returning, but not at the level you could expect a 'walk through the park' to a Pac12 title. And, for the record not near the talent of some previous teams, so tossing preseason "crap" and seeing it it sticks is always a 50/50 proposition. Stating OSU was a top 5 team is a meaningless gesture in the preseason as it never can take into account what actually happens during the season. If folks are going to "live" on what the "polls" of experts (that have never witnessed a game in person... or as KR, come in late in the season to say, "I told you so") then they'll likely be disappointed or calling "foul" 75% of the time. And, if so you then have to also have to "eat crow" that the consensus #1 team failed to bring home the hardware. To me that is lame... baseball is too weird of game, played very differently in differing leagues, with TONS of very talent kids spread over a LOT of teams to think projections and rankings have any true meaning. But... as I said waaaaay back then... "Unless we have several guys step up beyond what they have ever done in an OSU uniform so far... offensively and defensively... AND we get at least (3) pitchers that do the same"...... so, they did. Does that mean I was then "right"? Either way... I'm not here to be right or wrong.... or to go back and say I told you so. I leave that for all the "experts" who seem to live to have that in their ego's back pocket. But, different strokes for different posters in terms of why they come online. |
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Post by kersting13 on Jul 6, 2017 14:14:34 GMT -8
Oregon State was projected to be a top 5 team and win the Pac-12 in 2016 and were two years removed from being the #1 team in NCAA and three years removed from being the de facto #1 team in the country before losing a pair to a Mississippi State team playing out of their minds. The Beavers had the talent. The Beavers started 16-2, just a game off of Oregon State's 2017 start. Then, Rasmussen went down at an inopportune time, which burned up pitchers and resulted in a 1-4 stretch. The Beavers rebounded to beat the Huskies at home, but the next road trip was a loss to the cellar-dwelling Cougars. Oregon State beat Utah and Stanford in consecutive weekends and then got swept by an Arizona team that finished second in the country. A mid-week neutral loss to Portland was followed by a home loss to Oregon, a 1-6 stretch that ultimately doomed Oregon State. Outside of the two bad stretches, Oregon State went 33-9. Minnesota, who Oregon State beat at a neutral site, got in over Oregon State with a worse record and lower RPI as a two-seed. Oregon State swept Arizona State and finished ahead of the Sun Devils in the conference, but Arizona State was awarded a two-seed, as well. Oregon State was young in 2016 but very talented, and almost everyone noted that. Baseball America had Oregon State in as one of their Eight for Omaha before you basically indicated that Baseball America was wrong and in a big way. Baseba11, a lot of the time, you are dead on in baseball, but you must admit that you missed the good run in 2017. Everyone else was saying that the Beavers would be greatly improved in 2017, and they were. LOL... you don't "miss" on 56-6... it was the best of all possible circumstances. So, in essence everyone missed. Greatly improved was not what happened in 2017. A once-in-a-lifetime season happened that required EVERY area of team play to not improve, but be outstanding. So, with regard to all the experts, they were "wrong" too... as no one expected what happened to the level in which it did. And... could never be expected to happen again. Again... the previous season's rebuff had zero to do with the expectations of this team. We had some talent returning, but not at the level you could expect a 'walk through the park' to a Pac12 title. And, for the record not near the talent of some previous teams, so tossing preseason "crap" and seeing it it sticks is always a 50/50 proposition. Stating OSU was a top 5 team is a meaningless gesture in the preseason as it never can take into account what actually happens during the season. If folks are going to "live" on what the "polls" of experts (that have never witnessed a game in person... or as KR, come in late in the season to say, "I told you so") then they'll likely be disappointed or calling "foul" 75% of the time. And, if so you then have to also have to "eat crow" that the consensus #1 team failed to bring home the hardware. To me that is lame... baseball is too weird of game, played very differently in differing leagues, with TONS of very talent kids spread over a LOT of teams to think projections and rankings have any true meaning. But... as I said waaaaay back then... "Unless we have several guys step up beyond what they have ever done in an OSU uniform so far... offensively and defensively... AND we get at least (3) pitchers that do the same"...... so, they did. Does that mean I was then "right"? Either way... I'm not here to be right or wrong.... or to go back and say I told you so. I leave that for all the "experts" who seem to live to have that in their ego's back pocket. But, different strokes for different posters in terms of why they come online. No one claimed they expected a once in a lifetime season. They said that OSU was considered by many who follow the sport to be a strong contender for the Pac-12 title with a very good shot at Omaha. That opinion was much closer to the target than yours. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 6, 2017 14:24:33 GMT -8
LOL... you don't "miss" on 56-6... it was the best of all possible circumstances. So, in essence everyone missed. Greatly improved was not what happened in 2017. A once-in-a-lifetime season happened that required EVERY area of team play to not improve, but be outstanding. So, with regard to all the experts, they were "wrong" too... as no one expected what happened to the level in which it did. And... could never be expected to happen again. Again... the previous season's rebuff had zero to do with the expectations of this team. We had some talent returning, but not at the level you could expect a 'walk through the park' to a Pac12 title. And, for the record not near the talent of some previous teams, so tossing preseason "crap" and seeing it it sticks is always a 50/50 proposition. Stating OSU was a top 5 team is a meaningless gesture in the preseason as it never can take into account what actually happens during the season. If folks are going to "live" on what the "polls" of experts (that have never witnessed a game in person... or as KR, come in late in the season to say, "I told you so") then they'll likely be disappointed or calling "foul" 75% of the time. And, if so you then have to also have to "eat crow" that the consensus #1 team failed to bring home the hardware. To me that is lame... baseball is too weird of game, played very differently in differing leagues, with TONS of very talent kids spread over a LOT of teams to think projections and rankings have any true meaning. But... as I said waaaaay back then... "Unless we have several guys step up beyond what they have ever done in an OSU uniform so far... offensively and defensively... AND we get at least (3) pitchers that do the same"...... so, they did. Does that mean I was then "right"? Either way... I'm not here to be right or wrong.... or to go back and say I told you so. I leave that for all the "experts" who seem to live to have that in their ego's back pocket. But, different strokes for different posters in terms of why they come online. No one claimed they expected a once in a lifetime season. They said that OSU was considered by many who follow the sport to be a strong contender for the Pac-12 title with a very good shot at Omaha. That opinion was much closer to the target than yours. "Target"  ?? I re-read. I do not think I mentioned a target other then if we did not have significant performances it would be a long season. Never said we would not get them, just that they were required to get over the hump and make sure of an invite to the post season. |
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Post by jdogge on Jul 6, 2017 15:49:16 GMT -8
No one claimed they expected a once in a lifetime season. They said that OSU was considered by many who follow the sport to be a strong contender for the Pac-12 title with a very good shot at Omaha. That opinion was much closer to the target than yours. "Target" ?? I re-read. I do not think I mentioned a target other then if we did not have significant performances it would be a long season. Never said we would not get them, just that they were required to get over the hump and make sure of an invite to the post season. You hit a lot of doubles and triples -- when you double- and triple-down on your positions. |
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