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Post by osubeaver2018 on Nov 15, 2021 21:17:12 GMT -8
So I guess my question to some of you is a team getting hot for three weeks a lifetime contract for the coach? I've been a little sarcastic in some of my replies so I'll answer the question with my actual thoughts re: WT. I've stated my thoughts on tonight's game and the first three games already, so I'll skip over some of those details. IMO stating that the basketball program is not trending in the right direction is just a gross overreaction to the early stretch of this season. There is a LOT of basketball left to be played. That does not mean I'm happy with these two losses by any stretch. However, WT has shown in the last few seasons that his teams have been playing their best basketball at the end of the year. Last year's team was starting their run of good play well before their tournament run as well with NINE straight wins away from Gill before the loss in to Houston. People also forget the 2019-20 team was on a winning streak to end the season and had just won their first PAC-12 tournament game in dramatic fashion before the season was abruptly ended. I'm willing to give him some time to get things figured out with this squad right now, even if this isn't where I expected us to be after three games.
Regarding WT's contract, name another program that would NOT reward WT with a new contract after where he has brought OSU basketball in the time he has been here. A Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. maybe, but we are not them and realistically never will be. If I'm WT and I just took a pay cut to keep the AD functioning during a COVID season and then that very same year lead my team to the Elite 8 and DON'T get a contract extension out of it what kind of message would I feel like that's sending? I'd be listening to any and all job offers coming my way at that point, because I sure as hell wouldn't feel wanted or appreciated where I'm at when I've just led a team to it's 2nd NCAA tournament appearance in 31 seasons and best finish in 40 years. Also, WT only had 3 years left on his deal after the Elite 8 run, good luck recruiting if you can't even tell a HS recruit you'll be there for all 4 years.
WT can absolutely still be criticized, and so can the team as a whole. There are things that need correction and quickly. But we are just coming off one of the best seasons in program history, so for me, judgment on this year's team can wait until a we at least get through the next few weeks before I'm panicking.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Nov 15, 2021 21:38:16 GMT -8
According to a number of posters, we were fricken "trending" downhill as late as March of last year. Why the heck did we even bother going to the Pac 12 tournament?
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Post by irimi on Nov 15, 2021 22:26:27 GMT -8
WTs teams run like an old Ferrari. When it’s going, it’s like a dream. But most of the time it can’t get out of the garage. I feel a need to test this. Can I borrow your Ferrari for a few weeks. |
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lefty
Freshman
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Post by lefty on Nov 15, 2021 22:47:02 GMT -8
Last year's finish with the PAC 12 title and elite was totally fantastic, but Thompson, Richle (sp) are gone and several of the other key players have gone significantly gone down hill in a big way. The player that is the key is Hunt and he is not a good PG. To sub in fine, but to be the man it isn't going to be pretty. Silva has got to play and contribute. Alatisha is out of control and should be a major contributor and is taking terrible shouts and puts the ball on the floor when its the worst thing he could do. He has lost his swagger and is forcing shots. His game is very weak right now and you can tell he is hesitating and loosing confidence. I have never been a pro-Tinkle person and ate my hat last year, but this is the Tinkle I know and I hope was gone forever!
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Post by beaverstever on Nov 15, 2021 23:04:35 GMT -8
The biggest disappointment for me was almost no impact by the transfers in this game. Where was Davis - is he hurt?
I really expected our returnees to get pushed for minutes - to have all those new athletes not bringing much is disappointing. Meanwhile we’ve been killed the last two games by players who are just as fresh to their respective squads. If this team is largely just last year’s team without Ethan and Reichle, it will be tough sledding.
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Post by ochobeavo on Nov 16, 2021 8:31:12 GMT -8
The biggest disappointment for me was almost no impact by the transfers in this game. Where was Davis - is he hurt? I really expected our returnees to get pushed for minutes - to have all those new athletes not bringing much is disappointing. Meanwhile we’ve been killed the last two games by players who are just as fresh to their respective squads. If this team is largely just last year’s team without Ethan and Reichle, it will be tough sledding. Davis was out with a groin injury according to a Nick Daschel tweet. |
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Post by ochobeavo on Nov 16, 2021 8:47:19 GMT -8
Really hoping Davis is good enough to take the reins from Hunt. Gianni is 4-20 thru 3 games and has 10 TO. There are times where he's pushing the ball for no reason - 1 on 3, 1 on 4.
Other lowlights:
Silva in 3 games has 3 rebounds in 38 minutes (Andela has 12pts 10 reb in 42 min, but also 6 TO).
Lucas is shooting 9-26.
Alatishe - we've discussed. Everyone on the planet knows he's going to put the ball on the floor from the high post. Spin move, maybe a fade-away bank. Yikes. Seems like it's a different world for him now without someone like ET around as the focal point for the defense.
Rand is a lot slimmer than I realized coming into the season. I assume the PT issue is that for him to play, he's in over Alatishe and/or Calloo and looks to have nothing as far as offensive skills go?
Free throws -we've discussed and it's brutal.
Still think we're going to be much better in a few months, but we don't really have a lot of time to figure it out at this rate.
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Post by ag87 on Nov 16, 2021 9:31:09 GMT -8
I've only seen bits and pieces of the three games. My one meaningful observation is that Davis is better than Hunt. But Hunt is in his third year here. (and Davis has the groin injury) But I see Tinkle waiting for five to eight games before giving the bulk of the minutes to Davis so the rest of the team buys into letting the new guy being pg. It's a bit like Tres and Langston-Walker in 2014.
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Post by rgeorge on Nov 16, 2021 11:14:14 GMT -8
I've only seen bits and pieces of the three games. My one meaningful observation is that Davis is better than Hunt. But Hunt is in his third year here. (and Davis has the groin injury) But I see Tinkle waiting for five to eight games before giving the bulk of the minutes to Davis so the rest of the team buys into letting the new guy being pg. It's a bit like Tres and Langston-Walker in 2014. It's really a "wait and see" thing. If you look at the transfers that WT landed the minutes played and production is minimal and that's being kind. Davis's stats as a JC basically doubles the rest of the guys. But, this isn't JC ball, and I doubt even with minutes Davis can approach his JC numbers, so where are the points going to come from?? This is a very limited team on the offensive end of the floor, especially if a team can play a decent m2m. The team should be the sum of the parts, but it seems we have too many guys who are very limited in their skill sets. OSU has struggled vs a very weak schedule and to three teams who have not been good offensively in their own right: PortSt 38.3%/31.8% IowaSt 43.9%/26.9% Tulsa 38.9%/26.1% Total 40.3%/28.2% Great D or bad opponents??? Either way struggling at home in your first outing is normal. Losing on the road to two below average (or worse) teams who shoot so poorly is not a great sign. This team needs to find it's offensive "legs" soon. And, I'm going to have to agree with an earlier post, I have no idea what the offensive "plan" is on most possessions??? There is really no recognizable sets/motion on most trips down the court. A ton of forced passes and shots. I'm sure some jellign will occur, but it is a bit worrisome after three games. And, IMO I've never seen how Alatishe is considered a 1st team Pac12 type??? He's extremely limited other than his quick twitch jumping ability, he has no face up game or anything remotely resembling a jump shot from 15'+. Inside he seems to rush, has questionable hands, and simply depends on jumping over every defender. If he is considered our "go to" guy on offense OSU is in trouble, especially since he also can't shoot a FT. Andela should be playing the bulk of the post minutes. He's limited, and may foul out, but at least he gives an inside presence on both ends and is relentless on the glass. Many of the new guys have had so many sporadic minutes it's hard to tell what they can or can't contribute. I'm hoping to see some lineup/substitution patterns change over the next 3-4 games where some guys get some extended time on the court. |
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Post by beaverstever on Nov 16, 2021 12:30:18 GMT -8
I expected (still do) that Alatishe would be a regular double-double guy this year, ala Lucas of yore. For him to get out-rebounded by Calloo and Hunt should be embarrassing to him, given his physical gifts. He needs to figure out how to be that guy whiteout needing >10 shots/night to get there. And he has to shoot FTs better, or he'll just get fouled if he does get his game going.
Lucas is our only natural scorer with probably Calloo being the possible exception. We need him to to get going. He go the most minutes, and I don't see us having any other choice; we're really limited for options offensively when he's not out there.
Silva is a senior in his best shape, and he's not getting it done. He had flashes of being dominant at times last year, he needs to channel that guy.
Calloo had a nice game, and we should win any game he goes for 20. For us to struggle offensively with him getting 20 pts is ridiculous.
I thought we'd see more of Taylor; we just seem to have better offensive possessions when he's in there.
In general, there's only 2 guys on this team that I want am not cringing when at the FT line. Given the range of options at guard, IMO minutes need to be weighted to those that can hit FTs and are interested in trying to get there.
I really expected this team to be able to overwhelm lesser opponents with athleticism on the defensive end and getting to the rim and on the offensive glass. That just isn't happening, and we don't have anything to leverage to then beat even mediocre teams right now. When we only have 2 guys hit double figures total over 2 games, and neither one of them were expected to be the consistent scorers for this team in Andela and Calloo (at least not by me), something is amiss.
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Post by beaverinohio on Nov 16, 2021 12:36:09 GMT -8
To me this was a bad loss. Tulsa is not a very good team, and the Beavs did nothing to make me believe they are. Definitely some deficiencies that I’m not sure they’ll be able to cover in time. Hope I’m wrong. Big problem is PG. I’ve never been a big fan of Hunt’s. He’s had some very good moments — has hit some big 3s and made some big steals — but just doesn’t have the overall skills and consistence needed to run a winning team. I’m hoping that he’s just having difficulty growing into this new role, but not convinced he will.
That brings us to the newcomers and specifically Davis. He is the one I have the highest hopes for, but that may be based more upon need then his actual ability. I think he’s going to have to become the starter for this team in order to have any real success. As for the other new transfers, Rand seemed like the most promising based on his athleticism, and he has had his moments. The two guards and the center seemed more like pieces rather than key contributors. Taylor seems like he has some potential.
I was disappointed when the PG from the 2022 class decommitted. His tape looked pretty good to me, plus he was a PG. Beavs need to add a PG in both of the next two classes or things could get really rough.
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Post by nabeav on Nov 17, 2021 8:51:21 GMT -8
My opinion? We'll be fine. We probably aren't winning the Pac-12 Tournament or making the Elite 8 again, but we'll be fine. To me it looks like a team that still hasn't quite figured out their roles offensively. Defensively I like what I've seen so far. Everyone is working hard, there's significantly more athleticism and length on the floor. Offensively it's been a bit of a horror show, but I like the pieces. There's a whole host of guys that can pull up off the dribble and hit shots. Lucas isn't going to shoot this bad all season. Hunt is either gonna figure it out or he's gonna lose playing time. I still love what he can bring to this team, but the decision making is just so questionable. Lots of new pieces, maybe gonna take more time than we'd like to make it work. As others have noted, Tinkle has a knack for getting the team playing their best basketball by the end of the year, that's been especially true the past two seasons. We've got a better collection of talent than we've had in a long time here.
Be patient.
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