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Post by dryside on Oct 18, 2021 6:04:43 GMT -8
We are currently in a holding pattern. We are 4 up and 2 down. Had we not lost prior to our bye week there would be more positive threads to read on here. Instead and despite our progress we always find ways to argue about things in general.
So I can add my two cents or I can hope to find something we can discuss that is actually about Beaver football on a positive note........
Some where in the next six weeks we can become bowl eligible ! We have not lost at home this year so that might be a good place to look for that elusive 6th win. We have 3 remaining home games beginning with Utah this coming Saturday. Followed by 2 road games @ Cal and @ Colorado. Then Stanford @ home then ASU @ home. Finish @ uo.....personally I would love to see us reach that 6th win by beating Stanford ! We have found many many ways to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory against them in recent years. If we have already reached the 6th win milestone before they come to town so much the better. We can begin to frost the cake by thumping them.
I don't care when we reach the magic number I only care that we do. We may still be well short of a New Years type bowl but you have to get to the foothills before you reach the summit of a mountain climb. Everyone can look at the remaining schedule and pick out the wins and losses left. The only prediction I will make is set aside some coin and time because the Beavers are going bowling this year !
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Halfway
Oct 18, 2021 6:59:27 GMT -8
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Post by grackle on Oct 18, 2021 6:59:27 GMT -8
Dry' -- I'm sympathetic with your optimism but I understand the general disappointment around here with the loss to WSU. To me, it wasn't just the loss, but the way we lost--due largely to an aggressively impotent defensive game plan that remained static throughout the game, even in the face of obvious and effective in-game changes by the Cougs.
Unfortunately, the outcome of many, if not all of our upcoming games will be strongly influenced by the defensive game plan drawn up by the same inept defensive coordinator who was responsible for the cratered defensive effort at Pullman last week.
I'm not optimistic that JS will step in and immediately force some desperately needed changes.
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Halfway
Oct 18, 2021 8:01:21 GMT -8
Post by green85 on Oct 18, 2021 8:01:21 GMT -8
Dry' -- I'm sympathetic with your optimism but I understand the general disappointment around here with the loss to WSU. To me, it wasn't just the loss, but the way we lost--due largely to an aggressively impotent defensive game plan that remained static throughout the game, even in the face of obvious and effective in-game changes by the Cougs. Unfortunately, the outcome of many, if not all of our upcoming games will be strongly influenced by the defensive game plan drawn up by the same inept defensive coordinator who was responsible for the cratered defensive effort at Pullman last week. I'm not optimistic that JS will step in and immediately force some desperately needed changes. I think I like the opening post a little better than this one, grackle. The Beavers have shown some great things on offense. They have also shown great energy and effort in every game. I think the Beaver defense will be well-prepared for Utah. Beyond the Utah game, I think Oregon State will find more wins.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 18, 2021 8:11:18 GMT -8
Personally, I'd much rather we get our 6th win at Cal then be able to celebrate our 8th win against Stanford. Losing two of the next three would dampen a lot of people's enthusiasm.
We have a very tough game coming up Saturday.
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Post by grackle on Oct 18, 2021 8:27:01 GMT -8
Dry' -- I'm sympathetic with your optimism but I understand the general disappointment around here with the loss to WSU. To me, it wasn't just the loss, but the way we lost--due largely to an aggressively impotent defensive game plan that remained static throughout the game, even in the face of obvious and effective in-game changes by the Cougs. Unfortunately, the outcome of many, if not all of our upcoming games will be strongly influenced by the defensive game plan drawn up by the same inept defensive coordinator who was responsible for the cratered defensive effort at Pullman last week. I'm not optimistic that JS will step in and immediately force some desperately needed changes. I think I like the opening post a little better than this one, grackle. The Beavers have shown some great things on offense. They have also shown great energy and effort in every game. I think the Beaver defense will be well-prepared for Utah. Beyond the Utah game, I think Oregon State will find more wins. Green'....Don't get me wrong-- I'd love to eat crow and celebrate multiple Beav victories in the next few weeks. But after being a season ticket holder for 45+ years, I've become brutally realistic about my expectations for our FB success: teams simply don't win in the PAC with mediocre, vanilla coordinators. Unfortunately, DC Tibesar has proven to be inept and in well over his head. Leopards can't change their spots and Tibesar isn't suddenly going to be transformed into a capable DC.
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 18, 2021 8:30:53 GMT -8
I think I like the opening post a little better than this one, grackle. The Beavers have shown some great things on offense. They have also shown great energy and effort in every game. I think the Beaver defense will be well-prepared for Utah. Beyond the Utah game, I think Oregon State will find more wins. Green'....Don't get me wrong-- I'd love to eat crow and celebrate multiple Beav victories in the next few weeks. But after being a season ticket holder for 45+ years, I've become brutally realistic about my expectations for our FB success: teams simply don't win in the PAC with mediocre, vanilla coordinators. Unfortunately, DC Tibesar has proven to be inept and in well over his head. Leopards can't change their spots and Tibesar isn't suddenly going to be transformed into a capable DC. I'm not sold on Tibesar either....but I think a bigger issue is the quality of DL's that we have on this team. Not sure any DC could make our defense great at this point.
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Halfway
Oct 18, 2021 9:03:07 GMT -8
via mobile
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Post by rgeorge on Oct 18, 2021 9:03:07 GMT -8
Green'....Don't get me wrong-- I'd love to eat crow and celebrate multiple Beav victories in the next few weeks. But after being a season ticket holder for 45+ years, I've become brutally realistic about my expectations for our FB success: teams simply don't win in the PAC with mediocre, vanilla coordinators. Unfortunately, DC Tibesar has proven to be inept and in well over his head. Leopards can't change their spots and Tibesar isn't suddenly going to be transformed into a capable DC. I'm not sold on Tibesar either....but I think a bigger issue is the quality of DL's that we have on this team. Not sure any DC could make our defense great at this point. The quality isn't there as far as 4/5*, but then use "numbers", change fronts, run more innovative schemes and stunts. The talent level has risen far more than Tibs coaching ability. OSU has what it has and it's his job to make it at least better than average by year 4. Talent excuse has run it's course as the D is far better off than let's say, the QB room.
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Post by spudbeaver on Oct 18, 2021 9:08:19 GMT -8
Just do what the Ravens did to the Chargers!
*Sorry, I couldn't help myself....
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Halfway
Oct 18, 2021 9:24:19 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by zeroposter on Oct 18, 2021 9:24:19 GMT -8
Green'....Don't get me wrong-- I'd love to eat crow and celebrate multiple Beav victories in the next few weeks. But after being a season ticket holder for 45+ years, I've become brutally realistic about my expectations for our FB success: teams simply don't win in the PAC with mediocre, vanilla coordinators. Unfortunately, DC Tibesar has proven to be inept and in well over his head. Leopards can't change their spots and Tibesar isn't suddenly going to be transformed into a capable DC. I'm not sold on Tibesar either....but I think a bigger issue is the quality of DL's that we have on this team. Not sure any DC could make our defense great at this point. Then the circular discussions begin. Who recruits the DLs? And short of guys named Watts, does the 3-4 ever succeed without outside backers who are great at taking the place of the true rush DEs. Add in that the outside LBs are having some trouble in pass coverage when they drop back, and that becomes a circular discussion as well. Great tackle numbers are great except when those tackles are 10 yards down the field after a 3rd and 9 play. All I really know is that I hate the 3-4. Lol. At the same time, I think the defense matches up a little better against a very good Utah team. Go Beavs and beat the Utes.
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Post by OSUprof on Oct 18, 2021 9:28:42 GMT -8
I think I like the opening post a little better than this one, grackle. The Beavers have shown some great things on offense. They have also shown great energy and effort in every game. I think the Beaver defense will be well-prepared for Utah. Beyond the Utah game, I think Oregon State will find more wins. Green'....Don't get me wrong-- I'd love to eat crow and celebrate multiple Beav victories in the next few weeks. But after being a season ticket holder for 45+ years, I've become brutally realistic about my expectations for our FB success: teams simply don't win in the PAC with mediocre, vanilla coordinators. Unfortunately, DC Tibesar has proven to be inept and in well over his head. Leopards can't change their spots and Tibesar isn't suddenly going to be transformed into a capable DC. If OSU was in the market for a new defensive coordinator right now, would you be excited if Coach Smith was interviewing a candidate with these characteristics? - Six years experience as a defensive coordinator at the Division 1 FBS level but without any winning seasons to his credit.
- That six years of DC experience came at three different institutions over a 13-year period.
- The DC's defenses have recorded a career national scoring defense
ranking of 102. Stated another way, the DC's defenses rank among the bottom 25% in the nation every year of his career.
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Post by OSUprof on Oct 18, 2021 9:31:28 GMT -8
Mid way through year 4, the DC should have either recruited the personnel required for his defensive scheme or should have modified his scheme to fit the personnel present on the roster.
The offense is on the right track. The defense is a ball and chain for the program.
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Post by Judge Smails on Oct 18, 2021 9:32:02 GMT -8
I'm not sold on Tibesar either....but I think a bigger issue is the quality of DL's that we have on this team. Not sure any DC could make our defense great at this point. Then the circular discussions begin. Who recruits the DLs? And short of guys named Watts, does the 3-4 ever succeed without outside backers who are great at taking the place of the true rush DEs. Add in that the outside LBs are having some trouble in pass coverage when they drop back, and that becomes a circular discussion as well. Great tackle numbers are great except when those tackles are 10 yards down the field after a 3rd and 9 play. All I really know is that I hate the 3-4. Lol. At the same time, I think the defense matches up a little better against a very good Utah team. Go Beavs and beat the Utes. I don't like us running the 3-4 either. And yes, a lot of it falls on DL recruiting (and that falls to all the coaches, not just the DC). We have also lost some decent DL's through injuries, transfers, etc. That being said, we played WSU exactly how everyone else tries to stop the Air Raid/Run & Shoot. You drop 7-8 and keep everything in front of you. When you blitz more than one guy, it can backfire as it did in our game. You have to be able to get some pressure with 3-4 guys. We had one sack on a blitz and got burned trying to blitz several other times.
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Halfway
Oct 18, 2021 9:47:12 GMT -8
Post by rgeorge on Oct 18, 2021 9:47:12 GMT -8
Green'....Don't get me wrong-- I'd love to eat crow and celebrate multiple Beav victories in the next few weeks. But after being a season ticket holder for 45+ years, I've become brutally realistic about my expectations for our FB success: teams simply don't win in the PAC with mediocre, vanilla coordinators. Unfortunately, DC Tibesar has proven to be inept and in well over his head. Leopards can't change their spots and Tibesar isn't suddenly going to be transformed into a capable DC. If OSU was in the market for a new defensive coordinator right now, would you be excited if Coach Smith was interviewing a candidate with these characteristics? - Six years experience as a defensive coordinator at the Division 1 FBS level but without any winning seasons to his credit.
- That six years of DC experience came at three different institutions over a 13-year period.
- The DC's defenses have recorded a career national scoring defense
ranking of 102. Stated another way, the DC's defenses rank among the bottom 25% in the nation every year of his career.
We can't let facts disrupt the "talent" narrative. We seem to make due in other areas... like the OL is a great example of a good to great coach taking recruiting talent level out of the equation. Some here seem to forget they base their assessment/excuses on "recruiting" star levels. Because those are so accurate! And, they also forget all the lower "rated" players that have come out of OSU because of superior individual player development, schemes, and using personnel in creative and efficient ways. Diss on MR and MB (and their staff members), but as of now the player development far exceeds what is apparent after 3+ seasons and all the offseason instruction. I have no idea the personnel connection JS had with Tibs prior to his hire, but it was a questionable decision from day 1 and was voiced by many as a weird hire. Tibs background just didn't merit a retread hire when you HAD to turn around a ghastly poor defense to have a chance to compete and improve recruiting early on. Thx for the black and white reminder. Hoping the "spots" do change Saturday. Go Beavs
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 18, 2021 9:55:29 GMT -8
Green'....Don't get me wrong-- I'd love to eat crow and celebrate multiple Beav victories in the next few weeks. But after being a season ticket holder for 45+ years, I've become brutally realistic about my expectations for our FB success: teams simply don't win in the PAC with mediocre, vanilla coordinators. Unfortunately, DC Tibesar has proven to be inept and in well over his head. Leopards can't change their spots and Tibesar isn't suddenly going to be transformed into a capable DC. I'm not sold on Tibesar either....but I think a bigger issue is the quality of DL's that we have on this team. Not sure any DC could make our defense great at this point. The best DC on the planet cannot wave a magic wand and overcome fundamental weaknesses like our DL. It just is what it is. This team cannot pressure with 4. that GREATLY limits what you can do against a spread passing team. I am not giving Tibs a pass, but I want to be fair and reasonable in assessment. our DL does not generate pressure. and when a team goes out and puts 5 in a pattern you have a hard time using a 5th or 6th guy to create pressure without huge risk.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 18, 2021 10:34:17 GMT -8
Seems to me that Banker ran a 4-3 for the most part, and at the time we had a lot of posters who said we needed to run the 3-4. Now the story has reversed, but we're still having trouble getting the "talent" here. There's only so many very good 285-300# high school defensive tackles out there and most end up going to the glamor schools.
Frankly, I think our 3-4 this year is out-performing those of the last few years and I'm hoping the improvement keeps continuing. I think it would take a major recruiting coup for any coach to be able to "fix" our defensive line in one or two offseasons. I believe they're making progress, and continued progress could result in getting a couple of the recruits coming our direction.
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