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Post by lebaneaver on Jul 7, 2020 5:28:56 GMT -8
What is it that compels people to refuse the reality of this virus? What compels erstwhile intelligent people to politicize this pandemic to the point of endangering themselves and loved ones? What IS that dynamic? I swear to the good lord I want to understand it. time.com/5863564/hospitals-capacity-coronavirus-surge/ |
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 7:34:13 GMT -8
What is it that compels people to refuse the reality of this virus? What compels erstwhile intelligent people to politicize this pandemic to the point of endangering themselves and loved ones? What IS that dynamic? I swear to the good lord I want to understand it. time.com/5863564/hospitals-capacity-coronavirus-surge/I think it is a lot of things coming together, but in the end it is something that has been building for years... the power of fairly new in our history propaganda TV networks and fairly new social media services that can freely distribute lies or misleading information... all targeted at a certain demographic that didn't grow up with any of it. I also think it is a heavy dose of cognitive disassociation for many. People can't handle the reality. they NEED to believe it is a hoax or not that serious, because the alternative is too much to cope with. America was always doomed with COVID. it is a thing that takes everybody working together to beat. It is a group project, and like all group projects there is usually one or two people doing all the work and the rest of the group is screwing around in the corner not paying attention. |
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Post by vhalum92 on Jul 7, 2020 7:55:20 GMT -8
I think it goes back farther than that....
Lets stay in the lane of Health for an example. The negative effects of eating french fries are well documented, people are educated with these facts, they have even watched people in there family die of Heart Attacks or Strokes... but yet when it is time to order... we say... with Fries please. Then we proceed to eat them all.
It is a mixture of delayed results, a culture lacking in discipline, and when we bow up our backs we are "Free" Americans who want our Freedom.
Don't get me wrong... I love our Freedom in this country but it does seem to really be a stumbling block for making healthy choices.
Anyway, I'm not saying your media influence on the situation is wrong. I just look at my mom, she is 67 and isn't following any media. But I struggle to get her to take Covid precautions. She just wants to go about her life.
I think the other part of it is people don't like change... Creatures of habit.
Just my thoughts on a cloudy Tuesday.
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Post by Tigardbeav on Jul 7, 2020 8:32:53 GMT -8
What is it that compels people to refuse the reality of this virus? What compels erstwhile intelligent people to politicize this pandemic to the point of endangering themselves and loved ones? What IS that dynamic? I swear to the good lord I want to understand it. time.com/5863564/hospitals-capacity-coronavirus-surge/I think it is a lot of things coming together, but in the end it is something that has been building for years... the power of fairly new in our history propaganda TV networks and fairly new social media services that can freely distribute lies or misleading information... all targeted at a certain demographic that didn't grow up with any of it. I also think it is a heavy dose of cognitive disassociation for many. People can't handle the reality. they NEED to believe it is a hoax or not that serious, because the alternative is too much to cope with. America was always doomed with COVID. it is a thing that takes everybody working together to beat. It is a group project, and like all group projects there is usually one or two people doing all the work and the rest of the group is screwing around in the corner not paying attention. Not doubting the influence of media. But....why is Europe "handling" this so much better? This country used to be better at all pulling together. Europe seems to have been doing this. Maybe the EU organization helps? I don't know why they have been so much better |
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Post by sagebrush on Jul 7, 2020 8:51:02 GMT -8
The United States handled this is the worst possible way. The President turned it over to the governors. This meant we had 50, FIFTY different approaches to handling this problem. Shut downs, partial shut downs, no shut downs. Open, reopen, partial reopens. Doing it this way resulted in a predictable result, a total cluster f*ck. No wonder that the EU has banned Americans from traveling there. We've handled this like some third world country.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 8:51:52 GMT -8
I think it is a lot of things coming together, but in the end it is something that has been building for years... the power of fairly new in our history propaganda TV networks and fairly new social media services that can freely distribute lies or misleading information... all targeted at a certain demographic that didn't grow up with any of it. I also think it is a heavy dose of cognitive disassociation for many. People can't handle the reality. they NEED to believe it is a hoax or not that serious, because the alternative is too much to cope with. America was always doomed with COVID. it is a thing that takes everybody working together to beat. It is a group project, and like all group projects there is usually one or two people doing all the work and the rest of the group is screwing around in the corner not paying attention. Not doubting the influence of media. But....why is Europe "handling" this so much better? This country used to be better at all pulling together. Europe seems to have been doing this. Maybe the EU organization helps? I don't know why they have been so much better highly socialized nations have the culture of doing things for the good of society as a whole. When a country says "stay home to save you neighbors" far more people in those countries step in line. It also helps those country's governments actually provide economic support, like universal basic incomes, rent and mortgage suspensions and other subsidies to encourage compliance. Other countries did not make the shutdown impossible to achieve by refusing to support the citizens and essentially forcing the entire country to have to go back to work to be able to eat. Businesses that had to close got money, people that couldn't go to work got money. In America we tossed everybody a $1200 check, including billions of dollars to dead people and called it a day... Most of us had no choice but to get on with life. The government forced the choice of losing your house and not eating, or maybe getting sick. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 9:01:30 GMT -8
The United States handled this is the worst possible way. The President turned it over to the governors. This meant we had 50, FIFTY different approaches to handling this problem. Shut downs, partial shut downs, no shut downs. Open, reopen, partial reopens. Doing it this way resulted in a predictable result, a total cluster f*ck. No wonder that the EU has banned Americans from traveling there. We've handled this like some third world country. Funny, I originally thought it should be decentralized further. What does Jay Inslee know about Garfield County? No votes there. Could Kate Brown find Malheur Co on a map? What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander. I can't imagine leaving up to the Federal Govt deciding what's best for the people of Jordan Valley, Or! |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 9:03:55 GMT -8
Not doubting the influence of media. But....why is Europe "handling" this so much better? This country used to be better at all pulling together. Europe seems to have been doing this. Maybe the EU organization helps? I don't know why they have been so much better highly socialized nations have the culture of doing things for the good of society as a whole. When a country says "stay home to save you neighbors" far more people in those countries step in line. It also helps those country's governments actually provide economic support, like universal basic incomes, rent and mortgage suspensions and other subsidies to encourage compliance. Other countries did not make the shutdown impossible to achieve by refusing to support the citizens and essentially forcing the entire country to have to go back to work to be able to eat. Businesses that had to close got money, people that couldn't go to work got money. In America we tossed everybody a $1200 check, including billions of dollars to dead people and called it a day... Most of us had no choice but to get on with life. The government forced the choice of losing your house and not eating, or maybe getting sick. "...refusing to support the citizens and essentially forcing the entire country to have to go back to work to be able to eat. Businesses that had to close got money, people that couldn't go to work got money." Is this a serious post? |
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Post by beaver94 on Jul 7, 2020 9:30:20 GMT -8
What numbers are you all looking at that show Europe doing so much better than the US? Many of their deaths per million numbers are higher than the US.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 9:35:28 GMT -8
highly socialized nations have the culture of doing things for the good of society as a whole. When a country says "stay home to save you neighbors" far more people in those countries step in line. It also helps those country's governments actually provide economic support, like universal basic incomes, rent and mortgage suspensions and other subsidies to encourage compliance. Other countries did not make the shutdown impossible to achieve by refusing to support the citizens and essentially forcing the entire country to have to go back to work to be able to eat. Businesses that had to close got money, people that couldn't go to work got money. In America we tossed everybody a $1200 check, including billions of dollars to dead people and called it a day... Most of us had no choice but to get on with life. The government forced the choice of losing your house and not eating, or maybe getting sick. "...refusing to support the citizens and essentially forcing the entire country to have to go back to work to be able to eat. Businesses that had to close got money, people that couldn't go to work got money." Is this a serious post? Yes. what is so confusing about it? Europe supported it's people to compliment their shutdown, it is why they have controlled COVID. America did not help it's people anywhere close to what other countries did. It is a major difference. Look at Italy (Covering up to 80% of lost wages) Look at France ( Covering 70% lost wages) look at Spain (70% base wage) Germany (12 month support of unemployment) All countries that put together significant, real, population supporting measure for long term shutdown and recovery... America sent a one time $1200 check to people, and added an unemployment bump that expires in a couple weeks. America helped people that lost jobs, but did not create any incentive whatsoever to allow a majority of businesses (particularly small businesses) to shutter for a month or two and survive. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 9:50:01 GMT -8
"...refusing to support the citizens and essentially forcing the entire country to have to go back to work to be able to eat. Businesses that had to close got money, people that couldn't go to work got money." Is this a serious post? Yes. what is so confusing about it? Europe supported it's people to compliment their shutdown, it is why they have controlled COVID. America did not help it's people anywhere close to what other countries did. It is a major difference. Look at Italy (Covering up to 80% of lost wages) Look at France ( Covering 70% lost wages) look at Spain (70% base wage) Germany (12 month support of unemployment) All countries that put together significant, real, population supporting measure for long term shutdown and recovery... America sent a one time $1200 check to people, and added an unemployment bump that expires in a couple weeks. America helped people that lost jobs, but did not create any incentive whatsoever to allow a majority of businesses (particularly small businesses) to shutter for a month or two and survive. We have people that decided not to come to work because they were making the same or more than they would working. It's about time those bumps expire in my opinion. There were also many small business assistance loans available. Your original post summarized the Federal Govt assistance as one single $1200 check. If you want to lay blame look at the inept unemployment offices in Oregon and Washington. That really hurt people. The money's there, but they're still working 40 hrs/week. Inexcusable. |
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Post by mbabeav on Jul 7, 2020 11:45:22 GMT -8
You know, a virus does not care about who is blaming who (and based on most of the posting in BH, there are apparently more groups to blame than available ICU beds) and if current positive tests are accurate, Gov Brown might not be able to find Malheur (or Union or Umatilla) County, but the virus sure has. Viruses don't care about your politics, your habits, your location or you - they just like a nice human body to turn into a mechanism for spreading to more human bodies.
I suggest that in the end there really isn't much that will change things except for a vaccine.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jul 7, 2020 12:09:13 GMT -8
You know, a virus does not care about who is blaming who (and based on most of the posting in BH, there are apparently more groups to blame than available ICU beds) and if current positive tests are accurate, Gov Brown might not be able to find Malheur (or Union or Umatilla) County, but the virus sure has. Viruses don't care about your politics, your habits, your location or you - they just like a nice human body to turn into a mechanism for spreading to more human bodies. I suggest that in the end there really isn't much that will change things except for a vaccine. There are still zero cases in Garfield County, Washington! And I'm sure you know that my point was that what's good for Multnomah Co probably isn't necessary in Malheur Co, just as what's right for NY City most likely isn't right for Salem. And I wasn't blaming anybody btw. |
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Post by vhalum92 on Jul 8, 2020 16:24:06 GMT -8
I agree COVID isn't going away.
Not to be negative but I don't know how were getting through this without everyone getting it at some point... I've done some reading on T Cell immunity and T Cell therapies that might help prevent a full blown infection and or high viral loads.
But in the absence of a Vaccine... I'm having a hard time seeing how we get from here to the "new normal". I do know the deaths being attributed to COVID are dramatically going down in both percentages and raw numbers.
As far as Europe, the deaths they have had in those European countries are far more than the USA when you look at the deaths adjusted for population.
Stay healthy.
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