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Post by wbosh15 on May 19, 2020 8:31:51 GMT -8
I see lots of posts in a panic about PG for next year, and in comparison to this year and the previous year we are much more shallow at PG. However, compare PG this year to Mik's sophomore year. Are we really in that much worse of position? And did Syd ever really have a backup other than Kt Mac? I think most folks here think about a great dribbling, pass first point guard, and if what I can tell about recruiting is any indication, if you are a PG and under 5'10, you better be one of the 20 best players in the country or OSU really isn't interested. I understand the worry about getting pressed, but perhaps the plan is to make sure we have great passers and players at the 4 to help beat the press. Just a few of the observations I'm seeing, the OSU doesn't seem quite as panicked about the PG as the board does.
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Post by beavershoopsfan on May 19, 2020 9:01:42 GMT -8
Mik gave the Beavs 11 points/7 boards/5 assists at the point in '17-'18 and helped lead the team to the Elite 8 along with Gulich and Tudor. The team also had Katie McWilliams and a freshman in Goodman who both could and did handle the ball on ocassion.
Last season, the Beavs had Goodman and Pivec to handle the ball in addition to Slocum.
If Goforth proves to be a capable ball handler and can initiate the offense when Goodman is hounded and crowded at the point, then I think the Beavs will be okay. If Goodman doesn't have another capable ballhandler on the roster and Goforth isn't ready to share the ballhandling burden and can't create some separation with her dribble, it will not be fun to see the team struggle to beat the press and set up the offense.
Goodman is under 5'10" and was not one of the Top 50 (she was #63 according to ESPN) players in the Class of 2017. Her elite skill is shooting, not ballhandling or passing. Opposing defenders who get up in her grill have had great success in limiting her ability to get a shot off and/or get to a preferred spot on the floor that she attempts to get to via dribbling. Goodman needs to get shot attempts for the Beavs to be successful next season. I hope that whatever offensive adjustments OSU institutes for next season will result in Goodman getting a chance to use her best skill.
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Post by bvrbooster on May 19, 2020 9:27:21 GMT -8
One rings a bell and wrings his hands.
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Post by beaveroracle on May 19, 2020 9:59:07 GMT -8
... but perhaps the plan is to make sure we have great passers and players at the 4 to help beat the press. I agree entirely ... that is the plan. And it should work fine. I'm not worried about the press in spite of the problems last season. Dribble weaving through the press isn't the approach we're likely to take this year and we have the passers (and length) to beat presses. |
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Post by wbosh15 on May 19, 2020 10:09:12 GMT -8
One rings a bell and wrings his hands. My apologies, I would edit the title if I could. |
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Post by grad1973 on May 19, 2020 11:24:32 GMT -8
One rings a bell and wrings his hands. Question remains where do we make up for the large back court losses. It isn't that Goodman isn't capable. Its that she is a 2. A shooter by trade. If she is forced into a position that keeps her from what she does best? What's the point? In another way to see this. So most of our scoring will be one dimensional. Go inside. Well if we become one dimensional how easy will that be to defend? Not blaming Scott for the losses but he has scholarships to give and their were some pretty good pg types to be taken, is all. Cewdo's for his recruiting for help is coming. Great job Scott! It appears we are going to have to make Mack a 2. If we don't get someone experienced at 1 or 2 for 2020. We have kids coming back but they are unproven commodities. Nobody on board can realistic ly replace Slocum or pevics 30 plus points a game. Except Mack who is a 4/5.? Maybe a 3 also. But a 2? Maybe I'm missing something with the walk on girl? |
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Post by Werebeaver on May 19, 2020 11:54:20 GMT -8
One rings a bell and wrings his hands. My apologies, I would edit the title if I could. Don’t understand why the mods got so restrictive with the editing function. Or what they were attempting to “fix”. |
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Post by believeinthebeavs on May 19, 2020 12:06:06 GMT -8
Aleah is a true point guard. That is the position she played when she won 5A player of the year for the state three years in a row. She was not an elite shooter then because she had her older sister and then Weadon who were sharpshooters. She realized that at 5' 9" she would need to shoot more especially from the outside. She worked on it and made huge improvements during that off season. Just like she did the time between her junior and senior seasons, she had already verbally committed to OSU, she knew she would have to step up her defense. Her senior year against 6A South Salem she totally shut down Westbrook.
She is a student of the game, Rueck has said that she has a very high basketball IQ and she is a coach on the floor.
That said, it would be really nice to have another younger point guard to give Aleah a break and also to learn from her.
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norm
Freshman
Posts: 232
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Post by norm on May 19, 2020 12:25:49 GMT -8
Question remains where do we make up for the large back court losses. It isn't that Goodman isn't capable. Its that she is a 2. A shooter by trade. If she is forced into a position that keeps her from what she does best? What's the point? In another way to see this. So most of our scoring will be one dimensional. Go inside. Well if we become one dimensional how easy will that be to defend? Not blaming Scott for the losses but he has scholarships to give and their were some pretty good pg types to be taken, is all. Cewdo's for his recruiting for help is coming. Great job Scott! It appears we are going to have to make Mack a 2. If we don't get someone experienced at 1 or 2 for 2020. We have kids coming back but they are unproven commodities. Nobody on board can realistic ly replace Slocum or pevics 30 plus points a game. Except Mack who is a 4/5.? Maybe a 3 also. But a 2? Maybe I'm missing something with the walk on girl? The majority of the time last year there were 3 guards on the court. I would anticipate much less of that next season, with Taya or Ellie getting a alot of time at the 3. Let's set the press breaking concerns aside for now (which i don't think will be an issue, but I understand why some do), the question is; Can the combination of Aleah, Jaz, Sasha, Taya, and Ellie contribute at the same offensive level as the combination of Destiny, Mik, Kat, Aleah, and Kennedy/Maddie did last season? From my perspective, the answer will come from how quickly Taya returns to form (keep in mind that she hasn't really been much of a scorer before) and how quickly Sasha can adapt to D1 level ball. Aleah has gotten better every year and I would not expect this season be any different. Ellie is an experienced veteran. Seems like she should be able to step right in. Jaz should be ready to contribute more as well, with more minutes. If Taya and Sasha are effective, I think we will be fine replacing those 50+ points. Plus Taylor will build on last year and I have to assume Jelana or Trish will bring some value. And I didn't even mention Savannah. Whatever she can give will be an added bonus. We should also not lose sight of the fact that Destiny and Mik has alot of turnovers. I would expect us to be improved in that area as well, which will help on the offensive end. |
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Post by beavershoopsfan on May 19, 2020 12:28:34 GMT -8
Aleah is a true point guard. That is the position she played when she won 5A player of the year for the state three years in a row. She was not an elite shooter then because she had her older sister and then Weadon who were sharpshooters. She realized that at 5' 9" she would need to shoot more especially from the outside. She worked on it and made huge improvements during that off season. Just like she did the time between her junior and senior seasons, she had already verbally committed to OSU, she knew she would have to step up her defense. Her senior year against 6A South Salem she totally shut down Westbrook. She is a student of the game, Rueck has said that she has a very high basketball IQ and she is a coach on the floor. That said, it would be really nice to have another younger point guard to give Aleah a break and also to learn from her. I agree that Goodman was a natural point guard at the high school level. Playing point guard in the PAC-12 requires the ability to put the ball on the floor and beat defenses off the dribble in order to draw double teams and create open shots for your teammates. That part of the game has not been in her wheelhouse during her first three years of competition. Her basketball IQ will help her transition to the new role as the primary ballhandler. Keeping a 4 in the backcourt will provide a screening option to ease her ability to beat a man-to-man press. The biggest problem that I have seen is in the halfcourt offense when she uses 15-18 seconds of the 30-second shot clock to use a series of screens to initiate an offensive set. That can't happen next season with the regularity that it occurred with her this past season. |
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Post by beavershoopsfan on May 19, 2020 12:52:51 GMT -8
One rings a bell and wrings his hands. It appears we are going to have to make Mack a 2. If we don't get someone experienced at 1 or 2 for 2020. We have kids coming back but they are unproven commodities. Nobody on board can realistic ly replace Slocum or pevics 30 plus points a game. Except Mack who is a 4/5.? Maybe a 3 also. But a 2? Maybe I'm missing something with the walk on girl? Mack won't be asked to play the 2. She will play the 3 or 4. As will Corosdale. Jones will be the starting 5. Goforth is a candidate to start immediately at the 2. Goodman is the 1 as of now with skills that are best suited to play the 2 in the PAC-12. |
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Post by spudbeaver on May 19, 2020 13:16:06 GMT -8
One rings a bell and wrings his hands. His hands are actually bells. Kind of an Edward Scissorhands deal. He's very popular with the Salvation Army at Christmas Time however. |
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Post by nwhoopfan on May 19, 2020 13:35:02 GMT -8
Question remains where do we make up for the large back court losses. It isn't that Goodman isn't capable. Its that she is a 2. A shooter by trade. If she is forced into a position that keeps her from what she does best? What's the point? In another way to see this. So most of our scoring will be one dimensional. Go inside. Well if we become one dimensional how easy will that be to defend? Not blaming Scott for the losses but he has scholarships to give and their were some pretty good pg types to be taken, is all. Cewdo's for his recruiting for help is coming. Great job Scott! It appears we are going to have to make Mack a 2. If we don't get someone experienced at 1 or 2 for 2020. We have kids coming back but they are unproven commodities. Nobody on board can realistic ly replace Slocum or pevics 30 plus points a game. Except Mack who is a 4/5.? Maybe a 3 also. But a 2? Maybe I'm missing something with the walk on girl? The majority of the time last year there were 3 guards on the court. I would anticipate much less of that next season, with Taya or Ellie getting a alot of time at the 3. Let's set the press breaking concerns aside for now (which i don't think will be an issue, but I understand why some do), the question is; Can the combination of Aleah, Jaz, Sasha, Taya, and Ellie contribute at the same offensive level as the combination of Destiny, Mik, Kat, Aleah, and Kennedy/Maddie did last season? From my perspective, the answer will come from how quickly Taya returns to form (keep in mind that she hasn't really been much of a scorer before) and how quickly Sasha can adapt to D1 level ball. Aleah has gotten better every year and I would not expect this season be any different. Ellie is an experienced veteran. Seems like she should be able to step right in. Jaz should be ready to contribute more as well, with more minutes. If Taya and Sasha are effective, I think we will be fine replacing those 50+ points. Plus Taylor will build on last year and I have to assume Jelana or Trish will bring some value. And I didn't even mention Savannah. Whatever she can give will be an added bonus. We should also not lose sight of the fact that Destiny and Mik has alot of turnovers. I would expect us to be improved in that area as well, which will help on the offensive end. Two points I disagree with. To me Goodman improved dramatically from Fr. to Soph year, but it's debatable if she improved again last year. Her 3 point shooting and overall FG percentages went up, assists went up. Scoring was down even with a bit of an increase in minutes. Mostly what I remember about her last season is a LONG scoring drought throughout the middle of the season. I guess when she was good she was really good, and when she wasn't she was nearly invisible.
The other point is about turnovers. TOs have been a problem throughout Rueck's tenure. It really hasn't mattered who was playing PG. I have no reason to think it will be any different next season. Doesn't matter that Pivec and Slocum won't be there. Goodman will be handling the ball more and I'd expect her TOs to increase. Pivec and Slocum both had more assists than Goodman. Aleah will need to assume more play making duties, which will almost certainly lead to more TOs. And when the ball isn't in Goodman's hands, that leaves a bunch of relatively inexperienced guards, who will certainly have some TOs. Expect OSU to be have a negative net TO differential compared to their opponents again, just like it is every year.
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Post by blodgettbeaver on May 19, 2020 13:40:02 GMT -8
I think most nights Mac will have a distinct Advantage at her position to be able to bring the ball up if we're being hounded and for sure Taya.
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Post by beavershoopsfan on May 19, 2020 14:21:01 GMT -8
The majority of the time last year there were 3 guards on the court. I would anticipate much less of that next season, with Taya or Ellie getting a alot of time at the 3. Let's set the press breaking concerns aside for now (which i don't think will be an issue, but I understand why some do), the question is; Can the combination of Aleah, Jaz, Sasha, Taya, and Ellie contribute at the same offensive level as the combination of Destiny, Mik, Kat, Aleah, and Kennedy/Maddie did last season? From my perspective, the answer will come from how quickly Taya returns to form (keep in mind that she hasn't really been much of a scorer before) and how quickly Sasha can adapt to D1 level ball. Aleah has gotten better every year and I would not expect this season be any different. Ellie is an experienced veteran. Seems like she should be able to step right in. Jaz should be ready to contribute more as well, with more minutes. If Taya and Sasha are effective, I think we will be fine replacing those 50+ points. Plus Taylor will build on last year and I have to assume Jelana or Trish will bring some value. And I didn't even mention Savannah. Whatever she can give will be an added bonus. We should also not lose sight of the fact that Destiny and Mik has alot of turnovers. I would expect us to be improved in that area as well, which will help on the offensive end. Two points I disagree with. To me Goodman improved dramatically from Fr. to Soph year, but it's debatable if she improved again last year. Her 3 point shooting and overall FG percentages went up, assists went up. Scoring was down even with a bit of an increase in minutes. Mostly what I remember about her last season is a LONG scoring drought throughout the middle of the season. I guess when she was good she was really good, and when she wasn't she was nearly invisible.
The other point is about turnovers. TOs have been a problem throughout Rueck's tenure. It really hasn't mattered who was playing PG. I have no reason to think it will be any different next season. Doesn't matter that Pivec and Slocum won't be there. Goodman will be handling the ball more and I'd expect her TOs to increase. Pivec and Slocum both had more assists than Goodman. Aleah will need to assume more play making duties, which will almost certainly lead to more TOs. And when the ball isn't in Goodman's hands, that leaves a bunch of relatively inexperienced guards, who will certainly have some TOs. Expect OSU to be have a negative net TO differential compared to their opponents again, just like it is every year.
The nature of OSU's turnovers is directly related to the offensive sets and screens that the Beavers run. OSU runs a very deliberate offense that requires precise execution and timing or it isn't consistently effective. Turnovers and overpassing are common byproducts as opposing defenses jump routes that their coaching staffs have repeatedly seen and have scouted. I agree with the poster above who stated that higher turnovers are consistently linked to Rueck's sets, regardless of personnel. One would think that teams that don't run much would have fewer turnovers, but I have come to the conclusion that OSU historically tries to force too many passes into tight spaces and gives away possessions often when players pass up open shots and throw away the extra pass. Absent a change in offensive philosophy and schemes next season, you can expect 14-15 turnovers per game for the Beavs, minimal transition buckets, lots of entry passes to get the ball inside to Jones, and plenty of elevator screens to try to free their best shooters including Mack and Goodman. |
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