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Post by 411500 on May 17, 2020 9:11:04 GMT -8
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589 
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Post by billsaab on May 17, 2020 9:52:26 GMT -8
Was a good read. Coaching and development are essential.
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Post by rmancarl on May 17, 2020 9:56:21 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing. I have a lot of thoughts on this, but the one thing that jumps out immediately is this:
Out of the top 4 Pac-12 recruiting teams, not one of them has won a regular season Pac12 championship the past 6 seasons (which are the years you would expect to see the results of this 10 year study). One of those teams (USC) struggles to stay out of the bottom of the Pac.
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Post by nwhoopfan on May 17, 2020 10:44:53 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing. I have a lot of thoughts on this, but the one thing that jumps out immediately is this: Out of the top 4 Pac-12 recruiting teams, not one of them has won a regular season Pac12 championship the past 6 seasons (which are the years you would expect to see the results of this 10 year study). One of those teams (USC) struggles to stay out of the bottom of the Pac. Stanford has finished 2nd 4 years in a row and 3rd the 2 years before that. It's not like they are massively underachieving. UCLA has finished 4th or higher the last 5 years. I think it underscores what a great job the 2 coaches from the Oregon schools have done the last 6 years more than points out shortcomings of some of the other coaches.
Cal hasn't been much better than USC over that 6 year period. I'd say USC is closer to middle of the pack than barely staying out of the cellar, but they can't get over the hump and into the upper division (three 7th place finishes, 8th twice and 9th once is hardly the bottom).
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Post by bvrbooster on May 17, 2020 12:47:44 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing. I have a lot of thoughts on this, but the one thing that jumps out immediately is this: Out of the top 4 Pac-12 recruiting teams, not one of them has won a regular season Pac12 championship the past 6 seasons (which are the years you would expect to see the results of this 10 year study). One of those teams (USC) struggles to stay out of the bottom of the Pac. Stanford has finished 2nd 4 years in a row and 3rd the 2 years before that. It's not like they are massively underachieving. UCLA has finished 4th or higher the last 5 years. I think it underscores what a great job the 2 coaches from the Oregon schools have done the last 6 years more than points out shortcomings of some of the other coaches.
Cal hasn't been much better than USC over that 6 year period. I'd say USC is closer to middle of the pack than barely staying out of the cellar, but they can't get over the hump and into the upper division (three 7th place finishes, 8th twice and 9th once is hardly the bottom).
Cal made the NCAA tournament the last 3 years it was held, which certainly puts them in the 'upper division' of the conference over that time period. I don't know when USC last made the tournament, but it was prior to 2016. So I would say that Cal has indeed been much better than USC over the last several years. |
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on May 17, 2020 14:25:28 GMT -8
The nit picking does not change the story. Recruit good players and good people and develope the Players so the parts are not less than the whole.
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Post by nwhoopfan on May 17, 2020 14:53:50 GMT -8
Stanford has finished 2nd 4 years in a row and 3rd the 2 years before that. It's not like they are massively underachieving. UCLA has finished 4th or higher the last 5 years. I think it underscores what a great job the 2 coaches from the Oregon schools have done the last 6 years more than points out shortcomings of some of the other coaches.
Cal hasn't been much better than USC over that 6 year period. I'd say USC is closer to middle of the pack than barely staying out of the cellar, but they can't get over the hump and into the upper division (three 7th place finishes, 8th twice and 9th once is hardly the bottom).
Cal made the NCAA tournament the last 3 years it was held, which certainly puts them in the 'upper division' of the conference over that time period. I don't know when USC last made the tournament, but it was prior to 2016. So I would say that Cal has indeed been much better than USC over the last several years. Making the NCAA tournament is changing the topic. We were talking about how teams finish in the Pac 12 standings. So, here you go:
'19-'20
USC 8-10 7th
Cal 3-15 12th
'18-'19
Cal 9-9 T 6th
USC 7-11 T 8th
'17-'18
Cal 11-7 5th
USC 9-9 7th
'16-'17
Cal 6-12 T 7th
USC 5-13 9th
'15-'16
USC 6-12 8th
Cal 4-14 10th
'14-'15
Cal 13-5 T 3rd USC 7-11 T 7th
Way back in '14-'15 is the only year Cal finished significantly ahead of USC (more than 2 games). USC finished higher twice. Over 6 seasons Cal won a whopping 4 more conference games than USC did. So...I think my point is made.
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Post by rmancarl on May 17, 2020 17:25:51 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing. I have a lot of thoughts on this, but the one thing that jumps out immediately is this: Out of the top 4 Pac-12 recruiting teams, not one of them has won a regular season Pac12 championship the past 6 seasons (which are the years you would expect to see the results of this 10 year study). One of those teams (USC) struggles to stay out of the bottom of the Pac. Stanford has finished 2nd 4 years in a row and 3rd the 2 years before that. It's not like they are massively underachieving. UCLA has finished 4th or higher the last 5 years. I think it underscores what a great job the 2 coaches from the Oregon schools have done the last 6 years more than points out shortcomings of some of the other coaches.
Cal hasn't been much better than USC over that 6 year period. I'd say USC is closer to middle of the pack than barely staying out of the cellar, but they can't get over the hump and into the upper division (three 7th place finishes, 8th twice and 9th once is hardly the bottom).
Sorry for leaving out the word half. I meant to say bottom half of the Pac12 (not cellar), and your later post showed what I was trying to say. As for Stanford, my point was that they were 2nd in the NCAA in recruiting during those ten years, but haven't been able to win their own conference title the last 6 years. Another interesting note to this, three schools from the Pac12 who have made the final four in recent years, Washington, Oregon, and Oregon State, did not make this Top 30 list. |
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