|
|
Post by skyrider on Mar 8, 2020 18:14:50 GMT -8
As I watched the OSU-Stanford game unfold, I thought how helpful it would have been for OSU to have had Taylor Jones available for as many minutes as she could physically handle. With all our injuries, medical issues, etc. involving our "bigs" once she was forced to be out of the action for periods of time because of foul trouble the outcome seemed inevitable. How many games have we have watched were key players on both teams have been immediately taken out a few minutes into the game because of two fouls since they were then in "foul trouble"
My thoughts then went to why are 5 fouls a cause for disqualification?
*Do we not want to see the best players play and have the most competitive game possible? Then why not change the number of fouls to 6 or so? Or perhaps award the opposing player an extra free throw when fouled by a player who has more than 5 fouls.
*In football, players are not removed for penalties unless they are of the grievous type (violent behavior, etc.) The same things goes for baseball, soccer, etc.
*In basketball games, one player can be super critical to a team's performance. Why the seemingly severe penalty that 5 fouls seems to bring.
*Look at all the rule changes that have come along in basketball (time clock/3 point line/ etc./ etc.)-yet here we are often not being able to watch the very best performers either or our team or on the opposition because of an outdated and illogical rule.
*I am probably missing very valid reasons for the existing rule, but if I am I know my fellow forum members will be quick to bring them to my attention!
*GO BEAVS!
|
|
|
|
Post by sparty on Mar 8, 2020 18:26:54 GMT -8
So what you are saying is don't have a limit on fouls or maybe 10 fouls per player?
|
|
|
|
Post by alwaysorange on Mar 8, 2020 18:26:54 GMT -8
So you want a hack fest?
|
|
|
|
Post by believeinthebeavs on Mar 8, 2020 18:33:54 GMT -8
The game is already way more physical than when I played, take away the concern for fouling out and teams like asu and the sc would be the powerhouses.
|
|
|
|
Post by touchdown on Mar 8, 2020 18:46:48 GMT -8
The game is already way more physical than when I played, take away the concern for fouling out and teams like asu and the sc would be the powerhouses. Hurley would rejoice so his thugs could have at it. |
|
2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,831 
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
|
Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Mar 8, 2020 18:52:59 GMT -8
I am an engineer by trade, and so I like the fact that players in basketball (and the coaches) are faced with this constraint: where/how/when to 'use' a players 5 fouls. Now, refs, and Pac-12 refs certainly add some variability to the calculus, as does the opponent. skyrider points out that some other sports allow the continued participation of the offending player, but I think soccer at the very least makes penalties fairly game changing (perhaps football as well?) which prevents the "hack-fest" that continued participation in basketball beyond constraints might bring..... Interesting thought.... Go Beavers! |
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Mar 8, 2020 19:10:06 GMT -8
As I watched the OSU-Stanford game unfold, I thought how helpful it would have been for OSU to have had Taylor Jones available for as many minutes as she could physically handle. With all our injuries, medical issues, etc. involving our "bigs" once she was forced to be out of the action for periods of time because of foul trouble the outcome seemed inevitable. How many games have we have watched were key players on both teams have been immediately taken out a few minutes into the game because of two fouls since they were then in "foul trouble"
My thoughts then went to why are 5 fouls a cause for disqualification?
*Do we not want to see the best players play and have the most competitive game possible? Then why not change the number of fouls to 6 or so? Or perhaps award the opposing player an extra free throw when fouled by a player who has more than 5 fouls.
*In football, players are not removed for penalties unless they are of the grievous type (violent behavior, etc.) The same things goes for baseball, soccer, etc.
*In basketball games, one player can be super critical to a team's performance. Why the seemingly severe penalty that 5 fouls seems to bring.
*Look at all the rule changes that have come along in basketball (time clock/3 point line/ etc./ etc.)-yet here we are often not being able to watch the very best performers either or our team or on the opposition because of an outdated and illogical rule.
*I am probably missing very valid reasons for the existing rule, but if I am I know my fellow forum members will be quick to bring them to my attention!
*GO BEAVS!
Would not be a net benefit to OSU WBB. |
|
|
|
Post by sparty on Mar 8, 2020 19:16:50 GMT -8
How about making it like hockey with a penalty box?
|
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Mar 8, 2020 19:41:53 GMT -8
Thank you for all your responses. My thought was to change to (a) 6 fouls instead of 5 or (b) if you allowed a player more than 6, for every additional foul that player committed there would be one more free throw (i.e. foul #7 there would be a 2 shot free throw instead of 1, foul #8 a 3 shot free throw instead of 1, etc.)
I am not understanding the perspective expressed by several in our group that allowing a player to have more or less fouls is directly linked to how physical the type of play would be.
We have had 5 fouls as the standard for ever, and the physicality of the women's game has gone up and down (mainly up now in the PAC 12) within that framework.
I agree with many of you that the best basketball to watch is not WWE or Roller Derby imitations played on the hardwood. That to me is an issue that should be addressed separately and clearly it can be done that way. Look at the NBA, the game is no longer nearly as rough and physical as it was even 10 years ago. The league realized that the tremendous talent and skill level of the players shone the most brightly when they were allowed to move freely without being virtually physically assaulted. Their officiating of the games changed dramatically within the same 6 foul limit they have had for years to allow this to happen.
|
|
|
|
Post by believeinthebeavs on Mar 8, 2020 19:55:27 GMT -8
The real issue is not the number of fouls allowed, rather the inept referees allowed to officiate the games. Not only are they not consistent from person to person they are not even individually consistent within a game.
You fix the officiating and the players will quickly adjust within a few games. If it stays the same you will end up with the ctt's that say you can't call all the fouls and not just allows their players to hack away but even encourages it.
|
|
|
|
Post by bvrbooster on Mar 8, 2020 20:03:13 GMT -8
It's a valid question. Different fouls carry different penalties. An offensive foul is merely loss of possession, so like a turnover. A non-shooting foul, when the team is under the limit, pretty much incurs no penalty. And a shooting foul means free throws, but the severity of the penalty is proportional to the shooting prowess of the person who was fouled.
But a 5th foul? That's "three strikes and you're out" - sent to prison for life for stealing a car, banished to the end of the bench for the rest of the night for sticking your hip out a bit while setting a pick. It can seem rather draconian. It does seem like something worthy of further study by those who rule basketball.
|
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Mar 8, 2020 20:34:29 GMT -8
I’ll say it again...
I HATE BASKETBALL REFS!
Every last one of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by beaverstever on Mar 8, 2020 21:28:03 GMT -8
I don't think changing it would make much difference, as the foul count is part of the strategy. If it was 6, it might be tougher to get a player into foul trouble briefly, until they then became more aggressive as result, and now the player gets to 6 quicker.
Getting foul calls has been a part of the strategy of the game forever, and the same is true for many team sports - to the point of it being atrocious in some cases(i.e. Harden, soccer flops in general, etc). I actually think basketball by design is pretty good with fouls - you get a decent amount before being eliminated from the game, a single foul is generally not a huge impact on the outcome, and the reward for faking a foul is relatively minor (compared to say a PI penalty or say taking a fall in the box in soccer).
|
|
billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
|
Post by billsaab on Mar 9, 2020 5:32:01 GMT -8
It would not help us as She Fouled out quickly. One more foul maybe 4 more minutes. The Technicals certainly Hurt the team more than help. Those are on the Coach. We have one really quick player but the better Teams have more Team speed than we do. Scott’s offense is not based on quick attack and go to Rim like u of o. We must adjust our style and make Teams pay. We did it for 3 quarters against Cal, but not against Stanford with their length.
|
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Mar 9, 2020 6:29:35 GMT -8
It would not help us as She Fouled out quickly. One more foul maybe 4 more minutes. The Technicals certainly Hurt the team more than help. Those are on the Coach. We have one really quick player but the better Teams have more Team speed than we do. Scott’s offense is not based on quick attack and go to Rim like u of o. We must adjust our style and make Teams pay. We did it for 3 quarters against Cal, but not against Stanford with their length. Excellent observations. This year due to our lack of "bigs" due to injury, etc. opposing teams did not have to adjust as much as usual to our style of highlighting strong offensive post play that then lead to lots of open 3 point shots. We were just not "playing with a full deck". |
|
