|
|
Post by nwhoopfan on Feb 5, 2020 17:40:43 GMT -8
He's right though. Katie Smith had to be one of the worst coaches in WNBA history (and she was an assistant for a number of years under Laimbeer so at least she had some previous experience) and I'd say Lindsay Whalen is flopping pretty bad as HC at Minnesota, going into it with zero coaching experience at any level. You can find some examples of former players who have thrived as coaches, but you can find plenty of examples of the opposite. Playing and understanding the game don't automatically translate into being a good coach. Some people seem to think any good PG would automatically make a good coach because they are "the coach on the floor," but it just doesn't work that way. Seems like they hired Whalen more for recruiting purposes than coaching purposes, hoping that her name might draw players to the program and that she may be able to convince someone to be the next great player there, but it really hasn't happened. AS you name examples of not great coaches, there are also plenty of examples of great players who have become tremendous coaches: Kellie Harper (now at Tenn.) built a great program at Missouri State and is now trying to do the same at Tennessee (she of course had a road block at NC State along the way), Kim Mulkey, Turner-Thorne, Dawn Staley, and many others. Kim spent a lot of time on the bench of her alma mater, LA Tech, as an assistant before coaching at Baylor. I think (?) Dawn was more like Whalen. Notre Dame currently has two recent alums on the bench (not sure exactly of their roles), but one is Kayla McBride who is one of the best in the WNBA. You have come up w/ good examples of former players becoming successful coaches. I'd hold off a bit on including Harper in that group. She initially had success at Western Carolina, failed at NC State before doing reasonably well at Missouri St. It's too early to judge how it's going at Tennessee so far. 17-5 record looks fine but they've pretty much lost to every good team they've played.
It was before I was paying attention to women's hoops, but the WSU coach Ethridge was a standout player at Texas. She had a nice tenure at Northern Colorado before moving to Pullman. It sure looks to me like she's going to have the same fate at WSU as many previous coaches, just too hard to get talent there to be able to compete with the upper level Pac 12 teams. Washington coach Wynn played at USC. I can't see any possibility that she's gonna get it going at UW.
A couple of other good former Pac players I can think of off the top of my head that are having some difficulty turning programs around as HC are Nicole Powell (Stanford) at Grand Canyon and Loree Payne (Washington) at Northern Arizona.
You have to be able to coach Xs and Os, you have to be able to manage/run a program (practices, coaching staff, 12-15 player roster, media/PR stuff), and you have to be able to recruit. Failure at any one of those makes it difficult to be successful. Some schools are much easier to recruit to than others, but you have to be able to make some inroads no matter where you are.
I think you are right about Whalen. They were probably swinging for the fences hoping that hiring an in-state legend would be enough to convince Bueckers to stay home, but it didn't work. I don't think Whalen gathered a good enough staff to help her with whatever deficiencies she might have as a coach. Hiring a HC as a figurehead while an assistant is the "real" coach is very bad idea in my mind.
edited--I just had to add to this. Looked at Tennessee's schedule. They are 17-5 but I would only give them credit for 1 quality win at this point, over LSU. The other 16 are junk. They have 4 more games in regular season against decent teams in the SEC.
|
|
|
|
Post by rmancarl on Feb 5, 2020 19:24:52 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by willtalk on Feb 6, 2020 6:15:25 GMT -8
I am not responding specifically to Weise, but I have never been a fan of hiring a coach just because they were a good player. As was stated it does not always translate. I also believe that it wasn't until recently that WCBB rid itself of many poor coaches who got their positions just because they were ex-players. This was especially true of the women's game because until Title Nine women's basketball was not a job that any really good coach wanted. It was not that Pat Summit, Tara and some other old-time women coaches were so good, rather there was little competition. It wasn't until Title Nine and the salaries went up that more quality men started coaching women's teams.
I am in no way implying that women can not be good coaches, just that the pool was mostly flooded with former players. The women's game has been gradually catching up with the men's game and that made it difficult for former players because hey often modeled their system on the former outdated women's basketball, whereas men who transitioned from a men's basketball background were ahead of the game to start with.
The women will eventually catch up, but as of now, the better older coaches are mostly men. Whereas the best women's coaches are usually younger. In the case of most older women coaches, with a few exceptions, the game has passed them by. The bad coaches are gradually being weeded out. The problem was that too many women's programs set the criteria for hiring former players with a history with their schools exclusively. Cal, for example, could have had Greaves but ended up with Boyle and Gottlieb in succession. Two very bad coaches. Of course, there are also bad men coaches, like the former Laker Cooper.
|
|
|
|
Post by beavershoopsfan on Feb 6, 2020 8:15:18 GMT -8
Tara must be one of those "exceptions" that willtalk references above. The game has not passed her by. Dawn Staley is a similar example.
|
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Feb 6, 2020 8:27:50 GMT -8
Tara must be one of those "exceptions" that willtalk references above. The game has not passed her by. Dawn Staley is a similar example. And the ND coach, the Baylor coach....etc. There are a lot of good, older women's coaches. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverwbb fan on Feb 6, 2020 8:37:35 GMT -8
Tara must be one of those "exceptions" that willtalk references above. The game has not passed her by. Dawn Staley is a similar example. And the ND coach, the Baylor coach....etc. There are a lot of good, older women's coaches. Notre Dame is 8-14 this season  |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Feb 6, 2020 8:40:38 GMT -8
And the ND coach, the Baylor coach....etc. There are a lot of good, older women's coaches. Notre Dame is 8-14 this season One bad year does not make a bad coach. |
|
|
|
Post by beavershoopsfan on Feb 6, 2020 8:55:25 GMT -8
If Wiese wants to coach years from now, she will have the opportunity to do so based upon having been a high quality player and being an effective communicator. Based upon what I have observed on the court of Wiese as a player and teammate, I would feel comfortable knowing that my daughter was being guided during her college years by a person of integrity and faith. Wiese's resume would check a lot of boxes for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by beaverstever on Feb 6, 2020 9:25:47 GMT -8
I’m sure glad Rueck’s interview didn’t prioritize his accomplishments as a player.
And... LaVonda was a multi-sport all-American (although not D1). Just sayin.
I like Sydney, and hope she finds a home back at OSU someday. But under no circumstances should this program be handed over to someone unproven when it’s this attractive of a job. I think we took a massive and unnecessary risk with the baseball program with this kind of hire. You could maybe say the same for football, but that program was in the opposite state compared to baseball at the time of the hire.
|
|
|
|
Post by beavershoopsfan on Feb 6, 2020 10:08:03 GMT -8
I’m sure glad Rueck’s interview didn’t prioritize his accomplishments as a player. And... LaVonda was a multi-sport all-American (although not D1). Just sayin. I like Sydney, and hope she finds a home back at OSU someday. But under no circumstances should this program be handed over to someone unproven when it’s this attractive of a job. I think we took a massive and unnecessary risk with the baseball program with this kind of hire. You could maybe say the same for football, but that program was in the opposite state compared to baseball at the time of the hire. I was writing about Sydney being a third assistant one day, not turning the program over to her as a head coach without any experience as a coach. Assistant coaches have to pay their dues. Situations like Whalen's at Minnesota when a player retires and becomes head coach immediately are atypical. |
|
|
|
Post by believeinthebeavs on Feb 6, 2020 10:47:11 GMT -8
Interesting turn this thread had taken. Has Syd said she wants to go into coaching? I've only heard her say she wants to go become an announcer.
|
|
|
|
Post by bvrbooster on Feb 6, 2020 10:49:48 GMT -8
Coaching and playing are 2 very separate and distinct disciplines, just as playing and announcing are. Great players do not necessarily great announcers make. Those old enough might recall the agony of listening to Oscar the Big OOOOOOHHHHHHH ! Robertson. More recently, of course, we are subjected to Bill Walton.
Maybe Syd will be a coach someday, maybe she'll be a stock broker. Who knows? Who really cares? More power to her no matter where she winds up.
|
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 6, 2020 11:00:59 GMT -8
Joanne Boyle inherited a terrible Cal program, took it to the NCAA tournament four times in six seasons, and left her successor with eventual Final Four talent. She was an excellent coach at Cal. I don't think we ever beat her.
|
|
|
|
Post by jefframp on Feb 6, 2020 12:48:48 GMT -8
Interesting turn this thread had taken. Has Syd said she wants to go into coaching? I've only heard her say she wants to go become an announcer. I think she could step right in and take Ann Schatz place tomorrow. No experience necessary!   |
|
|
|
Post by nwhoopfan on Feb 6, 2020 13:15:49 GMT -8
Interesting turn this thread had taken. Has Syd said she wants to go into coaching? I've only heard her say she wants to go become an announcer. I think she could step right in and take Ann Schatz place tomorrow. No experience necessary! Pac 12 Network has utilized several former stars who all apparently aren't playing overseas during the WNBA off season this year. Jordin Canada seemed a bit nervous during her first broadcast, but was much more at ease on her second go around (that was a pair of OSU games IIRC). I didn't catch Monique Billings in her broadcast debut. Kelsey Plum did a good job, seemed fairly natural at it. A few ums or getting tongue tied, but overall enjoyable.
Yeah, some of the regular crew for Pac 12 Network I could do without.
|
|
