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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 21, 2020 15:24:39 GMT -8
Ok... so no one or group on here is getting WT fired. No one or group on here will help him keep his job if it comes to an end. So, what about eliminating all the fire him, who should we hire, the long suffering past, school to school/coach to coach comparisons... pretty much any opinion of what has come before today.
My query is for both WT supporters and detractors. No matter your stance at the moment what would it take from the OSU basketball program to flip your script on WT as the head coach?
I know it could require some to eat their words. Some to become a type of frontrunner. As pointed out in the poll thread it isn't an easy question... winning seasons in Pac12 play are tough over time. NIT or better is equally or more difficult.... although just because others are lacking being a top 100 team every year seems like a given expectation. But, it doesn't necessarily say some committee will select you.
So for you, what is your stance and what would cause you to change your tune?
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Post by alwaysorange on Jan 21, 2020 15:39:03 GMT -8
Some success in recruiting. At least one four star guy a year. The NCAA or nit each year. Little chance of either. There is so little air in the program a flat tire looks full
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Jan 21, 2020 16:05:17 GMT -8
As someone relatively neutral on their opinion of WT, for me to change my opinion and become a detractor I would say this year's team would have to see the wheels fall off and go 6-12 or worse in conference play. Even then I think he still gets at least one more year as last year seemed to buy him a lot of good will in the AD (whether we think it was warranted or not). With little improvement next year then I would say he needs to go.
For me to think he's the next best thing since sliced bread, I would want to see significant improvement and increase PT for current role players (Hunt, Lucas, SMM, Silva, etc.), a strong finish to the season leading to 20+ wins (and in turn a winning conference record), all ultimately culminating in an NCAA berth. This would make me feel good about this season and what is left in the cupboard for next after losing at least two of the "big three".
I don't personally see either of these things happening and am fully expecting the roller coaster of apathy, thinking "we suck", then a surprise performance making me think we've turned the corner, only to think "we suck again" three days later, and have it all repeat itself next year. Sure beats just flat out sucking all the time like most to all of my lifetime which is why I'm not a WT "detractor" per se, but is no less frustrating.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 21, 2020 16:28:20 GMT -8
As someone relatively neutral on their opinion of WT, for me to change my opinion and become a detractor I would say this year's team would have to see the wheels fall off and go 6-12 or worse in conference play. Even then I think he still gets at least one more year and with little improvement then I would say he needs to go. For me to think he's the next best thing since sliced bread, I would want to see significant improvement and increase PT for current role players (Hunt, Lucas, SMM, Silva, etc.), a strong finish to the season leading to 20+ wins (and in turn a winning conference record), all ultimately culminating in an NCAA berth. This would make me feel good about this season and what is left in the cupboard for next after losing at least two of the "big three". I don't personally see either of these things happening and am fully expecting the roller coaster of apathy, thinking "we suck", then a surprise performance making me think we've turned the corner, only to think "we suck again" three days later, and have it all repeat itself next year. Sure beats just flat out sucking all the time like most to all of my lifetime which is why I'm not a WT "detractor" per se, but is no less frustrating. I agree with 2018 here. I would add that off-court issues, academics, and off-season defections may factor in a pro or con analysis.
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on Jan 21, 2020 16:40:51 GMT -8
Better a Game Management. Recruiting not just 1 4 star a Year, but guys that play like Arizona or sadly U of o. I would like a lot less defections and much better post play. We have a shot blocker that cannot rebound. We have very sluggish looking bigs as subs. Do not see Lucas playing big minutes. If he is a scorer than show it.
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Post by shelby on Jan 21, 2020 17:31:52 GMT -8
A couple of guys that can consistently hit three's and one true point guard that can pass AND SHOOT. I would like a Ralph Miller type of recruiter. I see a big weakness in this area.
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Post by seastape on Jan 21, 2020 17:34:25 GMT -8
I have two minds of Tinkle:
1) I am convinced that the perennial powers are paying recruits and/or their families. I don't know if OSU does it and, if they do, to what extent, but I don't think OSU can or should get heavily into that game. I doubt that they are paying to any extent that the major basketball programs do. Therefore, I can stomach a decent program made up of 3* recruits with the occasional 4*.
2) I think the evidence is in" Tinkle's players do pretty academically, and I am a big fan of that.
Therefore:
I would like to see if Tinkle can coach a team that does not involve coaches' kids. So far, Tres has been our best four year player under Wayne and two of the other best players were Thompson's kids. Eubanks is the only other one who turned out to be a good player and not a coaches' kid. I thought Kelley would be, but he is not doing nearly as well this year as we had hoped. Even with the coaches' sons, we have never really been above average without GP II. If the program takes a real downturn when Tres leaves, I will lose a lot of faith in WT.
If the players start declining academically, then I will lose a lot of faith in WT.
Right now, there are 350 DI programs in college basketball. To make the NCAA's, a team must be in the top 19.4% of teams to make it in. I would like to see 2-3 NCAA tourneys every ten years and 1-2 NIT tourneys every ten years. So far, nothing indicates that WT can get us there. For that reason, I am kind of on board of letting WT go if the program doesn't go anywhere soon. I would need to see post-season play in the next two years to change my mind.
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Post by seastape on Jan 21, 2020 17:35:33 GMT -8
A couple of guys that can consistently hit three's and one true point guard that can pass AND SHOOT. I would like a Ralph Miller type of recruiter. I see a big weakness in this area. I get that, but Ralph had trouble attracting big men, at least in his later years. We need someone who can recruit all positions.
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Post by seastape on Jan 21, 2020 17:38:20 GMT -8
I have two minds of Tinkle:
1) I am convinced that the perennial powers are paying recruits and/or their families. I don't know if OSU does it and, if they do, to what extent, but I don't think OSU can or should get heavily into that game. I doubt that they are paying to any extent that the major basketball programs do. Therefore, I can stomach a decent program made up of 3* recruits with the occasional 4*.
2) I think the evidence is in" Tinkle's players do pretty academically, and I am a big fan of that.
Therefore:
I would like to see if Tinkle can coach a team that does not involve coaches' kids. So far, Tres has been our best four year player under Wayne and two of the other best players were Thompson's kids. Eubanks is the only other one who turned out to be a good player and not a coaches' kid. I thought Kelley would be, but he is not doing nearly as well this year as we had hoped. Even with the coaches' sons, we have never really been above average without GP II. If the program takes a real downturn when Tres leaves, I will lose a lot of faith in WT.
If the players start declining academically, then I will lose a lot of faith in WT.
Right now, there are 350 DI programs in college basketball. To make the NCAA's, a team must be in the top 19.4% of teams to make it in. I would like to see 2-3 NCAA tourneys every ten years and 1-2 NIT tourneys every ten years. So far, nothing indicates that WT can get us there. For that reason, I am kind of on board of letting WT go if the program doesn't go anywhere soon. I would need to see post-season play in the next two years to change my mind. I re-read my post and changed my mind. Tinkle is in year 6. One tourney. Make the postseason this year or out.
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Jan 21, 2020 17:42:14 GMT -8
I guess my question is this....... Can a CLEAN program be successful in the Pac-12 anymore?
Go Beavs!!
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Post by beaverinohio on Jan 21, 2020 18:22:40 GMT -8
he has at least one more son who is a great player.... Now that truly made me laugh out loud. Bravo.
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Post by beaverinohio on Jan 21, 2020 19:33:47 GMT -8
For me it’s not about changing my stance but giving me confidence. I think WT has laid a good foundation and he deserves another year or two, but I’m not confident he can take team to next level. What would help with that confidence is the team developing a real identity. As a Big 10 fan, I think about Wisconsin under Bo Ryan with his swing offense and tough fundamental defense that emphasized not fouling. You knew who Wisconsin was. I’m not advocating they take on that same identity, just that they develop one. Having an identity also helps with recruiting. You’re looking for specific traits in players and certain kinds of players. It is not just strictly about getting four and five star players. Ryan brought in his share of very good recruits, but there were a heck of a lot of 3 stars who were vital to his teams’ success. And that identity also gives you something to sell to those good recruits recruits.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 21, 2020 20:25:55 GMT -8
For me it’s not about changing my stance but giving me confidence. I think WT has laid a good foundation and he deserves another year or two, but I’m not confident he can take team to next level. What would help with that confidence is the team developing a real identity. As a Big 10 fan, I think about Wisconsin under Bo Ryan with his swing offense and tough fundamental defense that emphasized not fouling. You knew who Wisconsin was. I’m not advocating they take on that same identity, just that they develop one. Having an identity also helps with recruiting. You’re looking for specific traits in players and certain kinds of players. It is not just strictly about getting four and five star players. Ryan brought in his share of very good recruits, but there were a heck of a lot of 3 stars who were vital to his teams’ success. And that identity also gives you something to sell to those good recruits recruits. Tony Bennett did the same thing at WSU. I don’t think it’s a bad plan to be a defensive team first. CR’s first year or two and WT’s first year were both played at a slower pace with a defensive focus. Once they got some better athletes, they let them run and had worse win/loss results.
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Post by steinlager on Jan 21, 2020 20:32:55 GMT -8
Bringing in one of the stud in state kids.
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Post by beaverinohio on Jan 21, 2020 20:43:34 GMT -8
For me it’s not about changing my stance but giving me confidence. I think WT has laid a good foundation and he deserves another year or two, but I’m not confident he can take team to next level. What would help with that confidence is the team developing a real identity. As a Big 10 fan, I think about Wisconsin under Bo Ryan with his swing offense and tough fundamental defense that emphasized not fouling. You knew who Wisconsin was. I’m not advocating they take on that same identity, just that they develop one. Having an identity also helps with recruiting. You’re looking for specific traits in players and certain kinds of players. It is not just strictly about getting four and five star players. Ryan brought in his share of very good recruits, but there were a heck of a lot of 3 stars who were vital to his teams’ success. And that identity also gives you something to sell to those good recruits recruits. Tony Bennett did the same thing at WSU. I don’t think it’s a bad plan to be a defensive team first. CR’s first year or two and WT’s first year were both played at a slower pace with a defensive focus. Once they got some better athletes, they let them run and had worse win/loss results. Dick Bennett was head coach at Wisky prior to Bo Ryan, and, of course, preceded his son at WSU.
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