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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 22, 2019 14:32:31 GMT -8
Over the last 30 years, OSU is dead last (65th) in the number of combined winning seasons in football and men's basketball in the Power 5 conferences.
No doubt your numbers are correct. However, Wayne Tinkle has very, very, very little to do with that stat, as he has only one losing season in the five full seasons he has been employed as head coach and has at least laid the groundwork for another winning season so far this year.
Is he the answer? Who knows. But you can't hold him responsible for losing seasons when he almost always has had winning seasons.
A far, far more informative stat would be comparing P5 programs over the past 20, 15 or 10 years. What happened from 1989-98 has little or no bearing on today.
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Post by shelby on Dec 22, 2019 14:52:41 GMT -8
Could not agree more. If the Administration is not proactive in their evaluation and planning, for all programs, they should also be shown the highway !
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Post by OSUprof on Dec 22, 2019 14:59:02 GMT -8
Over the last 30 years, OSU is dead last (65th) in the number of combined winning seasons in football and men's basketball in the Power 5 conferences.No doubt your numbers are correct. However, Wayne Tinkle has very, very, very little to do with that stat, as he has only one losing season in the five full seasons he has been employed as head coach and has at least laid the groundwork for another winning season so far this year. Is he the answer? Who knows. But you can't hold him responsible for losing seasons when he almost always has had winning seasons. A far, far more informative stat would be comparing P5 programs over the past 20, 15 or 10 years. What happened from 1989-98 has little or no bearing on today. The original post that I responded to was with regard to whether there was a coincidence in the extended periods of poor performance in both football and men's basketball at OSU. I replied that it was not coincidental and that the phenomenon transcended coaching staffs, presidents, ADs, players, etc. Wayne Tinkle was not even mentioned.
This is about expectations and the notion that one can be critical, even when things are going well.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 22, 2019 17:19:43 GMT -8
Sorry, I guess my bad, it was on a WT thread so maybe I reached by extrapolating that WT was somehow involved.
The new AD has not shown a reluctance to relieve underperforming coaches. Anderpants, both soccer coaches, and he just eliminated swimming completely. I'd say the volleyball and wrestling staffs definitely should be concerned following their next (vb) and current (wrst) seasons.
I think you'd have a hard time finding a common thread for underperformance, except maybe being perpetually underfunded. We've had numerous coaches, ADs and university presidents during lengthy losing streaks in both sports.
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Post by blastingsand on Dec 23, 2019 2:42:56 GMT -8
I don't think it is any kind of coincidence that OSU loosing streak in basketball heavily overlaps ineptitude in football. The slide started in the late '80s, held off only be the prowess of a HOF coach. After him, the wheels fell off. This is no coincidence.
Football and men’s basketball programs are the big breadwinners in OSU’s athletic department. No other Power 5 program has a combined record of futility in the two top revenue producing sports. Over the last 30 years, OSU is dead last (65th) in the number of combined winning seasons in football and men's basketball in the Power 5 conferences.
This is a systemic deep-seated problem and the solution is transformational change of our programs and expectations of the fan base. The biggest impediment holding back OSU's athletics and the fan base is the attitude that "we can't.” Presidents, athletic directors, coaches and the players have come and gone over the last 30 years, but the one constant over time at OSU is the fans. This is our program and we need to demand more than we’re getting.
We tell ourselves that we’re too poor to compete. OSU is 44th in overall athletic department budget in the Power 5, yet we produce the worst results in the sports that have any significant financial impact. We’re not poor, we just make really bad choices with the money that we do have.
Passionate fans would never be passive if their programs were in the midst of multi-decade time spans of futility – they would not permit it.
We must aim higher and expect more. Being polite or withdrawing to our TV sets won’t change anything and we’ll get more of the same. Staying home only sends the message that you don’t care.
Ignore the defenders of the status quo and those that will tell you that you have no right to be critical. The competitive programs at OSU have good coaches that don't make excuses. Always be vigilant, even the good coaches and programs should be subject to scrutiny. Contrary to the opinion of some, having consistently high expectations is healthy and not a sign of negativity.
This has a lot of truth to it, and is just the tip of the iceberg. OSU has some very intelligent passionate fans. However once you reach the end of the line, most of the students that go through seemed to be fair weathered and only for the sports when they were in college. It's not like the school is lacking the rich engineer donors that can help with the AD. There's been plenty of successful people that have gone through it, but how many actually give back? On top of this, is the fact the AD does give a lot of extra care and attention to everything else outside football and men's basketball. Which is a glass half full situation when you look at it because the other teams get some well deserved attention. But the pride around campus and corvallis is always that the fball/mbb sucks but we love our other sports . But like I always say, if WSU can reach the heights that they have, after being the laughing stock and bottom dwellers for so long, there's no reason why we can't jump on an uphill cycle/quad. As far as this thread and Wayne Tinkle goes... I think osu is OK with him staying, as long as he doesn't have any more embarrassing seasons the AD and fanbase will be content with what he produces. But if I were him I would be worried once all these highly ranked coaches' sons graduate/transfer.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 23, 2019 9:31:27 GMT -8
I am not aware that any of the sons of the coaches have transferred. I expect they will all graduate; Stevie already has and Tres may have too.
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2ndGenBeaver
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Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Dec 24, 2019 18:28:53 GMT -8
I rushed to post a congratulatory message for WT hitting .500 because I am not one of his most ardent fans, and many of my posts in this forum are somewhat critical - so an opportunity to point out WT's positive contribution on our MBB "trail of tears" was an opportunity I wanted to avail of.
The good news is we are 9-2, likely 10-2 with a win at home against UND. That means WT is +8, and with 19 assured Pac-12 games, he only needs to win 6 or 7 Pac-12 games to have another one of those "non-losing" seasons. I am hoping for a lot better, but after the last game, a lot worse would not surprise me either...... I am thinking NIT is more likely than NCAA at this point, but I will continue to hope we go .500 or better in Pac-12 play, which might get us over the 20 win hump and on the bubble.
Go Beavers!
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Dec 24, 2019 21:11:09 GMT -8
I rushed to post a congratulatory message for WT hitting .500 because I am not one of his most ardent fans, and many of my posts in this forum are somewhat critical - so an opportunity to point out WT's positive contribution on our MBB "trail of tears" was an opportunity I wanted to avail of. The good news is we are 9-2, likely 10-2 with a win at home against UND. That means WT is +8, and with 19 assured Pac-12 games, he only needs to win 6 or 7 Pac-12 games to have another one of those "non-losing" seasons. I am hoping for a lot better, but after the last game, a lot worse would not surprise me either...... I am thinking NIT is more likely than NCAA at this point, but I will continue to hope we go .500 or better in Pac-12 play, which might get us over the 20 win hump and on the bubble. Go Beavers! The positives I saw early in the season (AH and ZR contributing more, ball movement/taking care of the ball better, better rebounding, etc.) seem to have regressed back to the mean as the non-conference schedule has gone on. If you had asked me before the PSU game I would have told you I would have been very surprised if this team did not win at least 9 conference games.
Now, even with a game where we still won comfortably even with TT only playing 17 minutes (that game still was almost entirely ET/KK and little from anyone else), I am not so sure after the past 4 games. I'm hoping this is just a mini slump rather than just getting off to a hot start and then returning to the norm for the rest of the season. We'll find out soon enough on the road trip to the mountain schools.
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Post by blastingsand on Dec 25, 2019 1:08:36 GMT -8
I rushed to post a congratulatory message for WT hitting .500 because I am not one of his most ardent fans, and many of my posts in this forum are somewhat critical - so an opportunity to point out WT's positive contribution on our MBB "trail of tears" was an opportunity I wanted to avail of. The good news is we are 9-2, likely 10-2 with a win at home against UND. That means WT is +8, and with 19 assured Pac-12 games, he only needs to win 6 or 7 Pac-12 games to have another one of those "non-losing" seasons. I am hoping for a lot better, but after the last game, a lot worse would not surprise me either...... I am thinking NIT is more likely than NCAA at this point, but I will continue to hope we go .500 or better in Pac-12 play, which might get us over the 20 win hump and on the bubble. Go Beavers! As I've said before, I think the AD, the fanbase, and the team is OK, with an average season and NIT bid. Most of beavernation truly does love Tinkle, I think the personality goes a long way and grows on the people around him. Plus his son Is a star on the team and a P12 POY contender once again. He will get a lengthy pass on a lot of things. And as good as Oregon basketball has been, Tinkle has had a pretty respectable record against them in the past few years. I'm not one of those people on his bandwagon, but I'm mostly neutral at this point.
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Post by mbabeav on Dec 26, 2019 12:57:57 GMT -8
JUst like my post after the Utah football game, I am going to say that I will not let any single game define our regular season. People can learn from their mistakes, and if the team and coaches don't realize what a "mistake" that last game was, then they don't deserve to be in a D-1 program. No team should be tossing it up from the 3 like that when it isn't dropping, and they can put 2 7 ft players on the inside and just get the ball to them if they have to.
Not having played now for several days should have let a few things sink in. I hope.
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