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Post by osubeaver2018 on Dec 20, 2019 12:41:46 GMT -8
1st team: Jared Cunningham ('12) GP II ('15, '16) Tinkle ('18, '19) 2nd Team Ricci (03) Lucas (04,05) Haynes ('10) Cunningham ('11) Nelson ('14) Thompson (S. Thompson, '19) Fixed it
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Post by beaverstever on Dec 20, 2019 12:59:27 GMT -8
1st team: Jared Cunningham ('12) GP II ('15, '16) Tinkle ('18, '19) 2nd Team Ricci (03) Lucas (04,05) Haynes ('10) Cunningham ('11) Nelson ('14) Thompson (S. Thompson, '19) Fixed it Thanks! That looks better! misread the wiki, was thinking that didn't seem quite right. Definitely could be other errors, as the wiki page has Scott Haskin playing for UO one of his years: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_All-Pac-12_Conference_men%27s_basketball_teams
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Post by Werebeaver on Dec 20, 2019 13:12:46 GMT -8
You could argue recruiting hasn’t been great clear back into the second half of the 80’s.. If we hadn’t gotten GP (and we were very lucky to have gotten him), was the remaining talent getting to the postseason? I personally don’t think so. You simply have to have players, and we haven’t lured many. This millennium I can think of Benjamin, Lucas, GPII, Tinkle and Jackson as team-elevating players. That’s not many over 20 years, and most of them had abbreviated college careers as well. Even the diamonds in the rough that we’ve gotten (Moreland, Kelly, Ricci) usually weren’t in the program very long. The list is even shorter since 2000 as both Benjamin and Jackson were recruited in the 90's. Benjamin was drafted in 1998. Lucas also was dragged out of Dixon as a walk-on, so technically he was not recruited here. He just happened to already be here. Cunningham is probably the only other one that I would add to your list. The death of Earnest Killum, the ineligibility of future pizza robber Chad Scott for his Senior year and a few other wash outs left you with Brent Barry and a bunch of other guys that were not Pac-10 players. That was the downfall..... With all due respect, Mustapha Hoff wasn’t just “a bunch of other guys”. 18.8 ppg his (and Brent’s) SR season.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 20, 2019 13:14:52 GMT -8
The list is even shorter since 2000 as both Benjamin and Jackson were recruited in the 90's. Benjamin was drafted in 1998. Lucas also was dragged out of Dixon as a walk-on, so technically he was not recruited here. He just happened to already be here. Cunningham is probably the only other one that I would add to your list. The death of Earnest Killum, the ineligibility of future pizza robber Chad Scott for his Senior year and a few other wash outs left you with Brent Barry and a bunch of other guys that were not Pac-10 players. That was the downfall..... With all due respect, Mustapha Hoff wasn’t just “a bunch of other guys”. OK....he had 1 good year.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Dec 20, 2019 13:15:35 GMT -8
Yeah not too surprising. It is a fair point though that we really have been devoid of talent for the better part of the last 25 years. Next year does worry me somewhat losing TT, KK, and maybe even ET if he thinks he's ready to make the jump. A lot of potential question marks from a talent as well as experience perspective. Makes it all the more important that this year's team makes the tournament IMO because I don't know if we have another realistic chance for a little while.
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Post by atownbeaver on Dec 20, 2019 15:48:12 GMT -8
Yeah not too surprising. It is a fair point though that we really have been devoid of talent for the better part of the last 25 years. Next year does worry me somewhat losing TT, KK, and maybe even ET if he thinks he's ready to make the jump. A lot of potential question marks from a talent as well as experience perspective. Makes it all the more important that this year's team makes the tournament IMO because I don't know if we have another realistic chance for a little while. Being overall devoid of talent for 25 years, begs the question of: Have we had bad luck with coaches for that time (possible) or is it a higher order issue with OSU (ADs?). I don't think it is any kind of coincidence that OSU loosing streak in basketball heavily overlaps ineptitude in football. The slide started in the late '80s, held off only be the prowess of a HOF coach. After him, the wheels fell off. The question is, why did football recover (I mean, you know, mostly) at the end of the 90's and early 2000's while basketball continued to languish? I suppose I could buy it was just some bad luck with coaches...
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Post by messi on Dec 20, 2019 17:40:37 GMT -8
In the coaching searches the last 25 years, were Payne, McKay, John, Robinson, and Tinkle the first choices when hired?
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Post by beaverstever on Dec 20, 2019 19:20:51 GMT -8
In the coaching searches the last 25 years, were Payne, McKay, John, Robinson, and Tinkle the first choices when hired? The only way any of those coaches were the top of any list is if the list has first been scrubbed for budgetary limitations. I know our issues aren’t that simple, but it hasn’t to explain a lot of it.
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Post by beaverstever on Dec 20, 2019 19:21:01 GMT -8
In the coaching searches the last 25 years, were Payne, McKay, John, Robinson, and Tinkle the first choices when hired? The only way any of those coaches were the top of any list is if the list has first been scrubbed for budgetary limitations. I know our issues aren’t that simple, but it hasn’t to explain a lot of it.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 20, 2019 19:27:27 GMT -8
In the coaching searches the last 25 years, were Payne, McKay, John, Robinson, and Tinkle the first choices when hired? The only way any of those coaches were the top of any list is if the list has first been scrubbed for budgetary limitations. I know our issues aren’t that simple, but it hasn’t to explain a lot of it. You can say that again. McKay might have been though. He was a hot commodity then after his success at PSU and CSU.
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 20, 2019 21:39:56 GMT -8
Or the lack of talent he had 95-96 was the worst talent team I've ever seen at OSU. When JD Vetter is your leading scorer at 10 pts/game, you've got issues. I just hung out with him at a funeral! Great guy!!
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Post by OSUprof on Dec 22, 2019 11:33:49 GMT -8
I don't think it is any kind of coincidence that OSU loosing streak in basketball heavily overlaps ineptitude in football. The slide started in the late '80s, held off only be the prowess of a HOF coach. After him, the wheels fell off. This is no coincidence.
Football and men’s basketball programs are the big breadwinners in OSU’s athletic department. No other Power 5 program has a combined record of futility in the two top revenue producing sports. Over the last 30 years, OSU is dead last (65th) in the number of combined winning seasons in football and men's basketball in the Power 5 conferences.
This is a systemic deep-seated problem and the solution is transformational change of our programs and expectations of the fan base. The biggest impediment holding back OSU's athletics and the fan base is the attitude that "we can't.” Presidents, athletic directors, coaches and the players have come and gone over the last 30 years, but the one constant over time at OSU is the fans. This is our program and we need to demand more than we’re getting.
We tell ourselves that we’re too poor to compete. OSU is 44th in overall athletic department budget in the Power 5, yet we produce the worst results in the sports that have any significant financial impact. We’re not poor, we just make really bad choices with the money that we do have.
Passionate fans would never be passive if their programs were in the midst of multi-decade time spans of futility – they would not permit it.
We must aim higher and expect more. Being polite or withdrawing to our TV sets won’t change anything and we’ll get more of the same. Staying home only sends the message that you don’t care.
Ignore the defenders of the status quo and those that will tell you that you have no right to be critical. The competitive programs at OSU have good coaches that don't make excuses. Always be vigilant, even the good coaches and programs should be subject to scrutiny. Contrary to the opinion of some, having consistently high expectations is healthy and not a sign of negativity.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 22, 2019 13:47:42 GMT -8
But can you lay all of that at the hands/feet of the coaches? A lot of our fans do. Blaming them for 30 year stretches of poor performances isn't really putting the blame where it's due and just changing coaches doesn't necessarily do anything to fix the problem. There's no real simple answer to changing a systemic deep-seated problem.
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Post by OSUprof on Dec 22, 2019 14:00:14 GMT -8
But can you lay all of that at the hands/feet of the coaches? A lot of our fans do. Blaming them for 30 year stretches of poor performances isn't really putting the blame where it's due and just changing coaches doesn't necessarily do anything to fix the problem. There's no real simple answer to changing a systemic deep-seated problem. I clearly laid the blame at the feet of the fans. Just as bad as the fans that lay all of the blame on the coaches are the fans that defend poor performance. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.
The fix is simple. Put pressure on the athletic director, coaches, president, etc. These folks work for us not the other way around. It's not too much to have expectations. Looks like the nearly 2 years of pressure we put on the AD led to some increases in the football staff coaching salaries. Now let's put pressure on to cut the administrative expenses in the AD with the new president and reallocate those funds to the sporting programs like all the rest of the Pac-12 peers.
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rafer
Sophomore
Posts: 1,604
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Post by rafer on Dec 22, 2019 14:28:15 GMT -8
I don't think it is any kind of coincidence that OSU loosing streak in basketball heavily overlaps ineptitude in football. The slide started in the late '80s, held off only be the prowess of a HOF coach. After him, the wheels fell off. This is no coincidence.
Football and men’s basketball programs are the big breadwinners in OSU’s athletic department. No other Power 5 program has a combined record of futility in the two top revenue producing sports. Over the last 30 years, OSU is dead last (65th) in the number of combined winning seasons in football and men's basketball in the Power 5 conferences.
This is a systemic deep-seated problem and the solution is transformational change of our programs and expectations of the fan base. The biggest impediment holding back OSU's athletics and the fan base is the attitude that "we can't.” Presidents, athletic directors, coaches and the players have come and gone over the last 30 years, but the one constant over time at OSU is the fans. This is our program and we need to demand more than we’re getting.
We tell ourselves that we’re too poor to compete. OSU is 44th in overall athletic department budget in the Power 5, yet we produce the worst results in the sports that have any significant financial impact. We’re not poor, we just make really bad choices with the money that we do have.
Passionate fans would never be passive if their programs were in the midst of multi-decade time spans of futility – they would not permit it.
We must aim higher and expect more. Being polite or withdrawing to our TV sets won’t change anything and we’ll get more of the same. Staying home only sends the message that you don’t care.
Ignore the defenders of the status quo and those that will tell you that you have no right to be critical. The competitive programs at OSU have good coaches that don't make excuses. Always be vigilant, even the good coaches and programs should be subject to scrutiny. Contrary to the opinion of some, having consistently high expectations is healthy and not a sign of negativity.
As always Prof, very well put.. THX////
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